Do I really need a gas check?

[SlamFire1]

I am almost totally new to casting. My biggest achievement was casting good Minie Balls, Rapine Mold 575510. I used a Coleman camp stove, ladle, and hours of effort. I was surprised on how much work it took.

Well I am on a new project and am drifting in uncharted waters. I have a bunch of 30-06 rifles, some M1903's, M1903A3' and a Ruger #1. I would like to have some fun offhand practice with cast bullets at 100 yards. I am going to be shooting at my 12" gong target. It is fun when you hear the clang and can see the paint splatter.

I recently read an article by Mike Venturio, in Rifle or Handloader. He was shooting cast bullets in several M1903A3's. So I decided to buy one mold he liked, the Lyman 311299. And I spent 3.5 hours on Sunday casting 119 bullets. Man it was a lot of work for a few so-so bullets. I also spent about the same amount of time getting my old Lyman 450 Lube Sizer (a 60's vintage gift from a friend) cleaned out and operational. (Amoung other things, I replaced the nail in one shaft bolt with a cotter pin!).

The 311299 mold seems to be for 303 Brit rifles. At least that is what old catalogs say it is for. My bullets as sized and lubed are about 205 grains. I found my bullets (using Lyman #2 alloy) cast about 309 to 310". My sizer was a .310 sizer. The lube is also give away stuff; it is red. Seems to be pretty hard. Not like a blackpowder lube. (Beeswax and Crisco)

Well, after buying the mold and die, it seems I skipped over the part where Mike said he used gas checks on the bottom of his bullets. Do I need them?.

Mike's data was with Accurate 5744. He used 25 grains to 27 grains. I have 5744. If I copy his loads, which I don't think any velocities were higher than 2000 fps, and if I don't use gas checks, am I going to have a problem?.

I really don't want to wait on a bunch of gas checks and also have to buy a gas check seating device for the Lyman 450.

I just have standard seating dies, small base sizing dies.

I have several kegs of surplus IMR 4895, going to try that next if the 5744 loads do OK

[sundog]

hi-dee-ho, slamfire. Yes, if the boolit is designed for a GC, you should use one. Some guys do get by, but if you want best accuracy and plan on going over, well pick some number, 1.2K??, yea, use the GC. The new 311299 is not for the .303, that would be the 314299, which is the same boolit just a tad fatter. .310 is a good starting size, but if that red lube is too hard don't try to use it in a lubrisizer without a heater. You could hand lube a softer lube like NRA formula or Alox or the like and run them thru a Lee sizer that fits your press and is cheap. You could use Lee liquid Alox, alot of fellers like it, but I don't like and try my best to not ever use it. 4895 and 5744 can be made to work just fine in 30-06. My 'goto' load is +or-21.0/4227. As you do a little more casting it'll speed up a bit. It really shouldn't be a big chore, that takes all the fun out of it. Anyway, welcome, and tell us more about what kind of shooting you do. The fellers here will help you as much as they can. sundog

[westy528]

I am almost totally new to casting. My biggest achievement was casting good Minie Balls, Rapine Mold 575510. I used a Coleman camp stove, ladle, and hours of effort. I was surprised on how much work it took.

I recently read an article by Mike Venturio, in Rifle or Handloader. He was shooting cast bullets in several M1903A3's. So I decided to buy one mold he liked, the Lyman 311299. And I spent 3.5 hours on Sunday casting 119 bullets. Man it was a lot of work for a few so-so bullets. I also spent about the same amount of time getting my old Lyman 450 Lube Sizer (a 60's vintage gift from a friend) cleaned out and operational. (Amoung other things, I replaced the nail in one shaft bolt with a cotter pin!).

The 311299 mold seems to be for 303 Brit rifles. At least that is what old catalogs say it is for. My bullets as sized and lubed are about 205 grains. I found my bullets (using Lyman #2 alloy) cast about 309 to 310". My sizer was a .310 sizer. The lube is also give away stuff; it is red. Seems to be pretty hard. Not like a blackpowder lube. (Beeswax and Crisco)

Well, after buying the mold and die, it seems I skipped over the part where Mike said he used gas checks on the bottom of his bullets. Do I need them?.


I don't have my Lyman list at hand, but if the bullet is designed for gas checks, they will perform better (and lead less) if gas checks are used. Omitting the gas checks allows the hot gases to surround the base of the bullet. This sometimes causes some melting of the base which is then deposited in the bore as the bullet travels to the muzzle.

I have a personal preference for the Hornady "crimp on" gas checks. These are slightly thicker at the cup mouth and this bites into the bullet base virtually eliminating losing the gas check during handling.

You may also want to try .308 and .309 sizer dies. Each rifle will have as much preference for a specific diameter as .22's do for specific brands of ammo.

The #2 mix is relatively soft (if compared to linotype), so you may also want to try a bit harder mixture. This, too, will reduce leading of the bore.

JW

[redneckdan]

to tide you over until you get the checks, try loading 5grs of reddot under those boolits, will make it out to 100yds, you just gotta figure out your drop.

[floodgate]

Slamfire:

"My biggest achievement was casting good Minie Balls, Rapine Mold 575510. I used a Coleman camp stove, ladle, and hours of effort. I was surprised on how much work it took."

If you started off casting good Minie' balls, you're well on your way!

redneckdan:

"Every time you call a magazine a "clip," God kills a kitten.
Please, think of the kittens."

Don't say it, Carpetman!

floodgate

[454PB]

It sure won't hurt a thing to try these boolits barefooted. Keep the velocity down around 1600 fps and they might surprise you. By the way, you don't have to have a gas check seater, I've never owned one and I've shot tons of gas checked boolits.

[steveb]

I tried the Ranch Dog TLC432-285-RF out without a check with a ave velocity of 1470. I had no leading at all at the chamber but about 3 inches from the muzzle I had some. I was using Lee liquid earwax and maybe didnt put enough on???

[SlamFire1]

Thanks guys. It may be a race between impatience and ordering gas checks. I would really like to take these bullets out and see what they will do.

The alloy (Lyman #2) was also give away material. I was told it was Lyman #2 and I have no reason to doubt it. The stuff is very hard to scratch. I actually got about 40 pounds of real linotype. There were some unmelted scraps that had letters. The ingots and scrap date from the late 60’s. The original owner said he had tried casting bullets with linotype and it was either too hard, or it leaded.

I also got a five gallon bucket of wheel weight lead. I will experiment with that next, when the Lyman #2 lead is gone.

Thanks for telling me about 314299 for the 303 Brit. I have a couple of Lee Enfields, and one #4 Mark II and a Jungle Carbine that I would like to try cast bullets in.

You know, I was able to get 300 pounds of telephone cable lead at a scrap yard. That stuff is very soft lead and has worked just excellently in my 58 caliber musket. I took about three gallons of Coleman camp stove fuel to melt that stuff into ingots. If it was not for the difficulty of getting Minie balls, I would not have gotten into casting. But after casting about 300 Minie balls, I got down right proud of my shiny bullets. And they shot well. It was hard for me to believe that they will shoot about two inches at 100 yards, but they will.

And they hit hard. When the hit the gong, it really clangs and moves. One day, I was shooting the musket offhand and some friends near by were shooting at bowling pins at 100 yards. These pins were hanging by strings to the cross bars of the target frames. When they hit the bowling pins with .223 FMJ, well it was hard to tell the pins were hit. The 308 FMJ would cause the pins to twitch a little. They asked me to try, and I hit a pin with my Musket and the whole pin just picked itself up and swung around the cross bar once. Quite impressive for a bullet only going 800 fps at the muzzle.