Top-Eject Winchester 94 - Sights and Buttpads?

[Dannix]

I'm a handgunner with nil rifle time, but I recently spent some range time with a 30-30 that belonged to my dad, bought for him by his dad, so it was special. It's a Sears Model 54, apparently basically a Winchester 1894, 20", top-eject.

I discovered two things:

The metal plated butstock on the alleged 'light-kicking' 30-30 HURTS. :shock: I kept it firm in the shoulder...in the joint area. It wasn't resting on the deltoid. Should it? Was I too square to the target? Either I just don't have any fat or muscle or haven't killed enough nerves there or something, or my handgun background is making for poor rifle form.
I can't see if I'm cutting paper at 100yrds. Got great eyes, the kind that can see the different color dots in process color. Unfortunately that doesn't do any good at even just 100yrds. :? Shooting with the stock sights -- Any replacement sight recommendations? Long relief scope or Red dot in the 'scout' rifle position? I've considered picking up a Lyman 66A, but a little bit of magnification would be nice.

Thoughts?

[jh45gun]

Seeing a target at a 100 yards and seeing holes in it you really need some magnification either a good pair of Binoculars or a Spotting scope to see the target after you shoot. A thirty thirty does have some recoil it is no 22 with factory loads but it is not that bad. However cast bullets and light loads make it much better to shoot.. A good peep sight would be fine and I do like a fiber optic front sight I find it is much better in low light.

[NickSS]

The 30-30 is a mild recoiling gun compared to most high power rifles. However it does have some recoil with factory loads. I started rifle shooting with a 303 British enfield and it left me black and blue the first few times I shot it. Actually I still feel a little tender after a few hundred rounds go down range in a day. Cast loads make the gun a ***** cat. I like a good reciever sight on my Winchester 94s. Scopes just seam to ruin the lines of the rifle and detract from its handling characteristics. If you really want to feel pain when you shoot try a Marlin 95 loaded with some 400 gr bullets at 1800 fps. You will then think the 30-30 is a mild kicking gun for sure.

[excess650]

I would put a receiver sight on that '94 rather than spoil its handling characteristics with a scope. Looking through the rear aperture will give you confidence that you don't have now, and increase your sight radius by about 50%.

As for the steel buttplate, you could add a slip-on recoil pad. My cut down '98 Turk truck gun has a RNRP which is just a piece of medium density foam cut to the sape of the existing steel buttplate and attached with contact cement. It adds a little LOP, and changes the butt from slippery to grippy, and softens the recoil a little.

[jlchucker]

What excess650 said. If you want some light-kicking loads, try using AA5744 powder. For some reason, this powder gives you loads that go to the same point of aim as some of the others, with a noticeable less kick. I've yet to figure out why.

[7of7]

Most factory rounds are loaded to near maximum, if not maximum.. which means it hurts... I don't load mine that way, because of that..
I actually use a 30 grain loaded on top of 33 grains of AA2230... can shoot it all day...
I have also loaded a 110 gr hollow point and 150 grain round nosed bullets... The 150's I normally load to about the 2000 fps velocity, which gives a lighter recoil than the factory rounds...
I prefer the 130 grain bullets... they are heavy enough to do what is needed at iron sight distances...
I do plan on putting red dots on all my lever guns... just because... most likely will be in the scout position if I can find a mount that I can use in the dovetail for my older rifles...

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have numerous Steel butted rifles and I weight a whole 158 today.. they all hurt in a Tshirt..
You should give a try to the 38-55 with a 255 grainer at 1650 fps...
But a bench is a good place to suffer.. try cross sticks. Sitting upright your body can roll to the rear. I also use a waddded handtowel under my t shirts in hot weather.
But in cold weather with a thick jacket that curved butt will keep that rifle on the shoulder with back pressure applied with the off hand. No slipping down while you work that lever for a second shot on that other coyotee you did not see.

[MT Gianni]

I have a lace up pad I bought for my 92 in 44 mag. That gun with hurt you with 300 gr boolits. It would also work for the 94. I got it from Cabelas AIRC. Try 10 gr Unique and a 133 gr Lee fp aka soup can in that gun. I also shoot receiver sights.

[Dannix]

Thanks for the comments!

I'll lurk ebay for an old Lyman 66A. Would like a steel one, not one of the current-gen aluminum ones. 7of7, would be interested in what red dot you go for if/when you do.


I've heard of AA5744. I'm still waiting on the 311-165 GB, but I've got a can of 748 on hand which according to Ranch Dog load data (http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/Ranch_Dog_Molds/Marlin%20Leverguns/Gas%20Checked%20Bullets/TLC311-165-RF/index.html) is good for both full and reduced loads. I'm also waiting on a .313-75 GB to come to fruition. Getting it for a .32 ACP, but I figured i can use it for plinking in the 30-30 too.


The Sears 54 has a mainly flat buttpad. Here's an image from online -- I took some photos of mine but can't find them right now:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23132&stc=1&d=1277420970
Not sure if it's easier or harder to find a pad for something like this. With a buttstock design like this, probably harder to fire as Missionary describes. Would like something I can screw on in the place of the steel pad -- the finish and blue mine is beautiful. Would hate to potentially give the stock a rash with a lace-up.

MT Gianni, how do you like your 44mag with its new pad? I fell in love with the 44mag after just recently shooting a box through an N-frame. I'm tempted to pick up a S&W 44mag snub one of these days.

[jmsj]

Dannix,
As for the recoil issue, you can add a good recoil pad like a Pachmayer Decelerator or a Sims. If you don't want to mess w/ the original stock for sentimental reasons, you could buy a inexpensive butt stock from Boyd's and put the recoil pad on that one.

I really like the lyman 66 peep sight, both of my Winchester 94's have them. In both guns ( for me) they shrunk group size by about half over using the factory iron sights.

[cajun shooter]

You might want to look at the Marble's tang sights and changing out the front for a Lyman or Marble's with a larger brass or ivory bead. That is what we do for the SASS rifles and it works wonders. You also don't have to drill the receiver. It fits where the tang screws are.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I shoot the M-54 30-30 like yours. I put a williams FP on it, used the original silver bead front sight, and worked up a load for deer with the Sierra 125 deer j-bullet/Varget, a little over the max. it shoots 2 1/2" @ 100. The lighter bullet and slower powder seem to make for less recoil off sandbags.

My M-100, signed on the barrel by Ted Williams himself, does a little better with the 31141 and max Varget. It has the Williams FP and a Ukrainian windage adjustable Beach front sight.

The throats on both guns are long enough to seat at the lower edge of the crimp grooves and use the longest OAL that feeds well. Trim your cases to the same length, necksize to bullet seating depth, match prep cases, and crimp with the Lee FCD and you will find accuracy. The barrels and chambers are great. BvT

[Hardcast416taylor]

My brother had a slip on recoil pad for his 94 that used velcro instead of lace up. Can`t recall what mail order store he got it from nor the maker, believe it was Pachmyer from Midway.Robert

[MT Gianni]

The pad tamed it a lot Dannix. The first time I had it out the curved butt plate bruised me at the shoulder, arm hollow between the bicep and shoulder and on the joint itself. I am a slow learner it seemed.

[corvette8n]

I've used 8-10gr of Unique under the Lee 150gr flatpoint for a mild plinking load, its like shooting a .22. I have also used a slip on rubber pad with good results

[Dannix]

Thanks for all the comments guys!

I'll try some reduced loads once I get in my Ranch Dog 311-165-GC. First with the 748 I got, then with Varget or AA5744. I know some guys are using AA5744 with an HP boolit for hunting, and I've heard of using Red Dot with lighter boolits for plinking.

jmsj, brilliant idea for picking up a different stock that I don't mind hacking! Brownells has one for ~$50, so I'll probably pick that up.

I'm going to have to talk a look at the front sight. The original has a bit of worn off bluing on the tip, so it's makes for harder aiming. Go figure because the rest of the bluing is in excellent condition. I thought about tang sights for the rear. I've heard though there can be some variation between shots due to the recoil. Is this true? Also, only got one tang screw with my Sears version of the Winchester 94. Does the 'real' 94 have only one screw, or two? If one, I may look a little more closely at that Marble tang sight route.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

My '59 and 61' have only 1 tang screw, serial # under the front of the receiver, and no front tang screw hole with dummy screw as the earlier models had. It's a D&T job. On the FS you can file a little notch on the top rear edge of the blade and put a tiny drop of 95% low temp silver solder on it. It can be filed and rounded with careful light tapping and polished. Great in gloomy woods.

BvT

[qajaq59]

I use the Williams peep sight with the fiber optic for the front sight. It's not perfect, but it'll kill hogs or deer if they're not in the next county. And a scope would make the 94s rifle look lousy and throw the balance off. With the top eject you really have few options.

[Dannix]

Yeah. The top-eject just looks right to me though. No matter how hard I try, I just can't get used to the Marlin 336 and the like.


I'm thinking about asking 7xLeather to make something up for me (found out about him in the vendor's section). Something like the below, but with a recoil pad, could be an neat route to take. Kind of like a fancy slip-on.
http://7xleather.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/DSC_0774.4360331_std.jpg
http://www.7xleather.com/buttstock_cartridge_holder

Dannix

[flounderman]

I have a beat up butt stock off a ted williams 94 I'm not going to be doing anything with. I also have some side mounts that set the scope off to the side far enough to eject the empties, if you are interested.

[Freebore]

That lace on cartridge holder does look good and with an added recoil pad I'll bet that you would be set!