What is this spent shell?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I picked my wife up at the airport yesterday, she was returning from a memorial service for her Father, who was MIA in 1972, then listed as KIA 7 years later, finally they put what remains they found to rest on Thursday, even though they have not positively identified any of the body parts as his . . .

Anyways . . . she was telling me the trouble she had getting through TSA security at the airport with the box that contained the flag:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/FlagBox.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/OpenFlagBox.jpg

Then she tells me that they had some upper management type come over, and there all looking into the screen at the image on the x-ray screen . . . she then tells me that the Air Force people had placed a spent shell in the box with the flag, from the ceremony! Surprisingly they were satisfied with her vague answer of "Well the government put it in there for me to take home, you can argue with them!" they let her walk! They never opened the case to see that it was a spent blank!

So . . . I had only ever seen blanks in pictures, or those little 22's that you put in a gadget to drive nails in to concrete, at first I thought it was a 30-06, but when I got home and compared it to my 270 case, it is smaller, so I'm think a 308?

270 on the left:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Cases1.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Casesandmedal.jpg

Head stamp - the primer is a tad "proud":
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/CaseHeadstamp.jpg

Kinda hard to see, even in my hand, but I believes it has the following . . .60LC the six is kind scrunched!

One of the families that also lost a airman made these plates for each family:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Plate.jpg

Here is a write up of the ceremony, we have the actual flag that was on the casket, the other families got flags that were already folded and in their boxes . . .
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2537433/posts

Here is a bit of info if you want . . . the three pictures of the men side by side near the top, the man on the right is my Father-in-law . . .
http://steeljawscribe.com/2008/05/27/airmen-missing-in-vietnam-war-spectre-1

So . . . am I right? Is it a 308 blank?

[Cactus Farmer]

I think it is the one of the blanks that were fired at the grave side.....
I don't see the big deal with the airport. It's just a fired round. Nothing more than a piece of brass.....no powder,no live primer,no projectile. NO threat. I'm just glad it wasn't anymore hassle than that.
My prayers are with the family of the Airman. He's one of the heros. Heros don't get to come home alive very often.

[buck1]

My guess would be a .308 blank from the salute.

[HeavyMetal]

Yep 308 blank most likely fired in an M14.

Have several just like it in the flag box for my wifes brother.

He was a 1960'a Marine Corp Vietnam vetran and passed in 2005.

[462]

Shawn,
A snappy hand salute goes out to your wife's father. Never got to see Spectre, but did see plenty of action from of Spooky (Puff) and Shadow.

I say Lake City 1960 is .30-'06, from a Garand.

[badgeredd]

Yep 308 blank most likely fired in an M14.

Have several just like it in the flag box for my wifes brother.

He was a 1960'a Marine Corp Vietnam vetran and passed in 2005.

+1, 308 for sure.

I salute your father-in-law and his sacrifice.

Edd

[Firebricker]

Shawn, My prayer's go to your wife's family and the family's of the other Airmen laid to rest.
I hope this can provide some closure for the family's. FB

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Tell her THANKYOU from the many of us who were very happy those SPECTURE SHIPS stayed on overhead through the night. How many our our troops returned home because her dad maned his post faithfully we will not know.
Mike in Peru Armor 71-74

[Marvin S]

It's one of the 7.62 blanks fired from the 21 gun salute. It's common to send at least one.

[fatelk]

It looks like you might be reading the date upside down. It looks like Lake City '09 to me. Current issue blank for the M14?

[462]

Fatelk,
You're '09 date may be correct. I said a '60 .30-'06, from a Garand, thinking that it might be a more traditional rifle to use -- think color guards and drill teams.

[montana_charlie]

So . . . am I right? Is it a 308 blank?
Sorta right. A military round would be called the 7.62 NATO.
CM

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

It looks like you might be reading the date upside down. It looks like Lake City '09 to me. Current issue blank for the M14?

I don't think so . . . because I used the same bases as the "LC" both have the bottom of the letters in toward the center . . . of course the "0" could be either way . . .

My wife say's she saw them pick them up, and put it in the box, and that it came from the salute.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Good afternoon
Tell her THANKYOU from the many of us who were very happy those SPECTURE SHIPS stayed on overhead through the night. How many our our troops returned home because her dad maned his post faithfully we will not know.
Mike in Peru Armor 71-74

Yes, I'm sure that is the case . . .

Unfortunately his tour was up weeks before, and they kept promising him this would be his last flight, just one more, one more . . . then he could go home, and it just got kinda extended . . . he was the navigator on this plane and the right wing got blown off, and went up in flames.

The sad part is he promised his eldest daughter (my wife) that he would be home for her 10th birthday, and he would have if he went home when he was supposed too . . . on the evening of March 28, 1972 (my wife's birthday) there was a knock on the door, and my wife thought it was Daddy, but it was just two Air Force men . . . who came to tell them the news of the plane being shot down! The official day recorded was the 29th, but because of the time line / date change where he was it was the 29th, but in California, it was still the 28th.

It was a tough life growing up for a Daddies girl . . . but she is fine now. and is glad to finally put this to rest once and for all, even though they don't have 100% comfirmation that they buried his bones, she is certain he is dead, and because he trusted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour, to pay for his sins, that she will see him again!

We got married on her birthday!

[26Charlie]

I remember using that type of blank 7.62 NATO round in training exercises in 1961 in the Marines. There was a blank-fire adapter for them for the M60 machine gun, but for the M14s we just racked the operating rod handle, as I'm sure they did for the salute.

[thenaaks]

according to wikepedia: The United States Air Force Honor Guard uses a version of the M14 specially modified by the USAF Gunsmith that prevents semi-automatic fire

that is a 7.62 blank, manufactured in Lake City in 2009.

30-06 blanks don't have the step-down after the neck...neither do 5.56.

[MT Gianni]

My sympathies go out to her and her family for their loss.

[DCP]

Shawn,
A snappy hand salute goes out to your wife's father. Never got to see Spectre, but did see plenty of action from of Spooky (Puff) and Shadow.

I say Lake City 1960 is .30-'06, from a Garand.


They use M1 Garands here in IL

You may find Three 45 acp rounds in that flag.

[Larry Gibson]

Condolences to the family. That is a Cartridge, 7.62 NATO Blank made at Lake City in 2006. They are used in all US 7.62 NATO weapons. At funerals it is a common military tradition for the commander of the military detail to insert one or 3 (1 for each volley) of the shell casings in the flag before presentation to the family. With case flags I have seen all 21 shells in the case as each represents a "salute". All fallen Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen and Marines are entitled to a "21 Gun Salute". That is the highest salute given to anyone.

NOTE; at funerals many 7.72 NATO blanks are also fired in 30-06 M1s and M1903s. They most often chamber and extract easily with the addition of a light coatt of BreakFree. If not then simply remove the decapping stem from an '06 FL die and size the blank so they still have a "crush fit" on chambering before using in an '06. It works fine and there are no pressure problems (no blank adapter with the M1). With the shortage of '06 M1909 blanks it is an easy alternative to keep the M1 and M1903s in use at services.

Larry Gibson

[deerslayer]

Salute!! May God be with your Family!

[MtGun44]

7.62 NATO blanks in current LC production have a .25 diam section of the case that extends
forward of the chamber so that the blank will feed - it replaces the bullet for geometric
feeding reasons. Not enough pressure to force the "bullet" to expand to the bore. I have
worked with blank firing guns used in MILES training and am very familiar with this exact
cartridge and how to keep live ammo from working in blanks-only MILES-modified weapons.
Bill

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Thanks everyone!

Basically this was a "mass" burial . . . as some of the airmen were confirmed dead and had funerals prior, but it was possible that some of their bones were in the casket, as the only way to DNA test the bones would end up destroying the bones . . . So of the 21 shots fired, the put one in this box, others may have gotten two cases . . . We got the actual flag which covered the casket and went to the grave side.

I just was not familiar with military brass, so didn't quite know what it was . . . when comparing it to my 270 brass, I knew it was not '06 as it would have been same but with a 30 cal neck . . .

[Adam10mm]

.30-'06 has no step down, 7.62 (.308) does. I have blanks of both cartridges (several actually) that were given to me.

[Just1Mor]

is the other shell, not the blank a 30-06? looks a bit larger.

God bless and best wishes!

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

is the other shell, not the blank a 30-06? looks a bit larger.

God bless and best wishes!

No, the shell on the left in the photo's is a .270 Win, which is basically just a necked down 30/06.

[Ed Barrett]

Heres a picture of a couple of .308/7.62 Nato unfired blanks. They are both LC (lake City) 1960. I bought a couple of hundred on links a few years ago. They have a red substance as a seal on the open front. The primer also has red lacuer sealant. I gave some to a friend to use with a generic Nato grenade launcher and he said they worked fine.