308-165-sil

[sundog]

Chargar, I thought I'd pass this along since you and I have batted this around a bit in the past.

Rem 700 VS LH in .308. Simmons mil-dot scope, Leupold mount and rings. All stock factory with trigger adjusted to suit.

25.0/5744 with WQ 308-165-SIL, 173.0 +/- 0.5, GB GCs, FWFL big batch. Cases are Win 14X fired, 1X trim, with Rem 9 1/2 primers. Cases mouths were prepped with Lee universal case neck expander (just enough to start). Boolits measure .310x.302+ seated to 2.723 and not crimped. I suspect velocity to be ~2050. If it works out good I'll chrono when the wx cools down a little -- triple digits for many days in a row.

Repeatable 5-shot groups at 50 yards produce groups with all holes touching (when I stay still) off my rickety bench behind the barn bench and Hoppes rest. I will test this load at 100 and 200 as soon as I can. Looks like a good combination! I will also work it up and down a grain or two just for grins. sundog

[Bass Ackward]

Repeatable 5-shot groups at 50 yards produce groups with all holes touching (when I stay still) off my rickety bench behind the barn bench and Hoppes rest.

Corky,

Good thing you don't have a 160 LBT spitzer, one diameter bullet for that beast. That would be a 200 yard description and all of a sudden the mold count on ebay would sky rocket. :grin:

Really rides the wind, she does.

[45 2.1]

This boolit seems to cast just big enough for most of the tighter bore rifles (0.309" x 0.3005"). I suspect if it had a 0.302" nose and a 0.3115" body, it would outshoot any of the other molds we have access to. That would make a really good group buy.

[felix]

Bob, I would consider that boolit without any qualms to produce fine accuracy, most especially in 12 twist barrels. But have Lee do it? No way. ... felix

[felix]

Yep, I have that 160LBT right here, Corky! I've sent some boolits to Bob some time ago for him to try. Maybe soon he can give a report and compare that with the 165 RCBS he has. Maybe we can get a group buy on one of these designs. David Mos? Walt's family? ... felix

[45 2.1]

Felix-
I sorted some of them by diameter and tried them some time ago. The RCBS boolit came out best. I normally shoot them in the two groove 03a3 barrels and the RCBS boolits shoot very well indeed. It needs to be bigger for the mujltiple groove (four grooves or more) barrels for it to shine.

Whoever does this needs to cut to the exact dimensions, not over or under. NEI policy seems to be 0.002" over. If we are to start doing business with them, they need to cherry 0.0005" over the spec'd dimensions.

[sundog]

Seems like I need to get my rear end out to the range and do some 100 and 200 yard work... sundog

[buck1]

The RCBS 165 sil has proved to be a tac driver from my bench! a quick dip of lube on the nose before chambering will make those boolits line up to go through the same hole!!!
My favorite slug so far even at high vel. ....FWIW.....Buck

[Char-Gar]

Sundog... I was wondering how you and that Remingto 700 VS LH were getting along after the honeymoon. Sound like you are getting along just fine. I still like mine. I have an old REdfield 12X with a fine cross hairs on it. I was having the dickens of a time getting enough elevation in the scope to get it sighted in the way i wanted. I finally bought one of those Ken Farrell, long range bases with an extra 20 minutes of elevation milled in. That solved all my problems.

I see this rifle is a favorite for the Cast Bullet Assocation Production class benchrest matches. I also note the winning scores are well within what mine will do with the 165 RCBS Sil. So the problem is not the rifle, but me. Can I do my thing on demand. I am thinking about giving it a try. Somedays I can shoot .75 MOA groups all day long. On the next day, the same rifle amd same ammo will open up to 1.2 MOA. The problem must be the nut behind the butt plate.

Thanks for the info on the powder, that is one I have not tried, keep me infomred. It does looke like these Remington rifles and RCBS bullets are a good match.

[Char-Gar]

45 2.1 The RCBS 165 SIL gives the best accuracy of any in my 100 % issue Remington 4 groove 03A3. It gives pretty consistant 1.5 MOA groups at 100 yards.

My Smith Corona barrel/action and other metal is off to Accurate Plating and Weaponry for a good blue. When it comes back, I will stick it back in the feaux NRA Sporter stock and see how the bullet does in that 4 groove.

I have a 2 groove Remington barrel still in the grease and a good Krag action and someday soon we will have a marriage. I would like to play with these two grooves. I hear good things about them.

[44man]

How about this! I could do this time and time again at 100 yds with the 165 Sil boolit from a TC 30-30 contender 10" barrel. Take off the gas check and they would keyhole at 50 yd's.

[sundog]

I just finished up loading my 100 yard test rounds. Five each at half grain intervals 24.5 through 27.0. I'm not a master, but I'm good enough that I can generally tell within five rounds if it's 'there'. Got a few rounds into loading and discovered that the powder was ocassionally clumping, not really bridging, but clumping, and choking the drop tube to the tune of about a grain. Hmmmm, says I, not a good situmooation! I switched dumps to an old Ideal 55, fiddled around with it and got better results. Wound up weighing all these test rounds, sooo, maybe all the better.

This is my first attempt to really use 5744, and so far so good, but I sure don't like this clumping thing. Powder is new from Powder Valley, smells good, looks good, shoots good, quack, quack, quack. Anyone else have a clumping problem with 5744?

I've got to go out to the range tomorrow night, so maybe while the meeting is going on I'll slide on down to the range if it's not too windy and light'em off at a hunert. We're also supposed to dropping off out of the triple digit heat -- finally.

Chargar, this could easily become a 'go-to' gun. It's already proved it's worth at 200 with Nosler 125 BT and, of course, the old standy by, Sierra 168 BTHP. I'm not sorry at all for the investment.

Got to rootin' around in my storage room and found that I had already cast a bunch of these and they are all either WQ or oven heat treated. Some are already checked and lubed with either FWFL or Orange Magic. I guess I was busy on all those cold nights last winter getting ready for summer and don't even remember specifically doing these, but most are dated Jan - Mar 06!!! sundog

[45 2.1]

45 2.1 The RCBS 165 SIL gives the best accuracy of any in my 100 % issue Remington 4 groove 03A3. It gives pretty consistant 1.5 MOA groups at 100 yards.

My Smith Corona barrel/action and other metal is off to Accurate Plating and Weaponry for a good blue. When it comes back, I will stick it back in the feaux NRA Sporter stock and see how the bullet does in that 4 groove.

I have a 2 groove Remington barrel still in the grease and a good Krag action and someday soon we will have a marriage. I would like to play with these two grooves. I hear good things about them.

Chargar-
The RCBS 165-Sil does MOA in the two groove when I can see the sights and target well. It does have a little too small dimensions to shoot like that in all the military four groove barrels i've tried it in though. It needs to be a little fatter. It does shoot like that in an old 700 BDL on which I have a trajectory compensating scope though.

[StarMetal]

Charger,

My first 03 was a Remington with a new Springfield 4 groove barrel and it was done up at the arsenal. Since that made it a non collector I was going to use it for shooting and modified it some. First I redid the stock, then I glass bedded the action. Then I installed receiver sight and smoothed out the trigger. The first bullet I tried in it was a winner and I never shot anything else. That bullet was the Lyman 311284 sized to .310 and used Javelina lube. I used alot of slow rifle powder and it shot basically the same. It would consistantly shoot 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards...all the time. I had a friend's friend pester me to sell it to him. All his bought and shot were military rifle, but with jacketed for him. I finally caved in and sold it to him. Couple weeks after that my friend, Bill, told me that Ron really love me for selling him that rifle. I asked how it shot. He said he took it out with match jacketed ammo and on the first outing he shot a ragged 5/8 in group with it. Both Bill and Ron will attest to how that rifle shot my lead loads. After that I picked up another 03 Remington, but this time it hadn't been rebarreled. It's barrel bore wasn't nearly as good as the first one, as you remember the first had a new barrel on it. Did the samething to this rifle as I did the other. Same results, exactly the same, with the same bullet....the 311284. My 30-40 Krag shoot the 311284 the same way as those two 03's did. Now my new CZ 550 in 30-06, althought shoot the 311284 good, it shoots the 314299 even better. Now this one is scoped and has a set trigger. I've done nothing to this rifle. I was pestimistic that it wouldn't shoot good because the groove was, if I remember correctly, .309. It's 4 groove rifling by the way. Well I broke the barrel in with jacketed and the rifle shot pretty darn good...3/4 inch and under. So then I cleaned it out and tried my cast loads. I didn't expect it to shoot 3/4 in, well it didn't, it, my friend, shoots into 1/2 at 100 yards with the 314299 sized to .310. I find myself not shooting this rifle much as it's boring, it's like my 30-40 Krag, no matter what powders I feed those two they shoot and good. I swear if you could dump brass, primers, bullets, and powder into the Krags loading gate, it would shoot small groups. The next rifle that hangs right there with those rifles isn't a 30 caliber. It's my 7mm-08 Sako carbine. Boy, with the Lee 135 gr 7mm bullet it shoots better then it does with jacketed. I nearly beat Dan's 200,000 rpm contest with that one. Next down the line is my Yugo 48 B mauser that I put a receiver sight on, boy it shoot everything good to and again another Lee bullet...the 175 gr. I would say the rifles mentioned are my best cast lead shooters. Just a tad below those is my Steyr M95 8x56R ..yup that little carbine shoots pretty good. Now I was just out shooting my Type 99 Arisaka 7.7 Jap. Using the 314299 the best I can get this rifle to is 2 inches at 100 yards. It'll do about an inch with jacketed. Ditto my 7.65 Agentine carbine, although this rifle is in mint condition 2 inches at 100 is about what it does. Mine you now, ALL my cast rifle loads are medium or top level. I hardly ever shoot mild plinkers and I almost exclusively use strictly rifle powders. I got somewhat off topic, sorry.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

Joe... Don't just tease! Gimme some of those powder charges for super accurate 311284 loads in the 30-06. Give it up!!!

[Bass Ackward]

Yep, I have that 160LBT right here, Corky! I've sent some boolits to Bob some time ago for him to try. Maybe soon he can give a report and compare that with the 165 RCBS he has. Maybe we can get a group buy on one of these designs. David Mos? Walt's family? ... felix


Felix,

The 160 LBT spitzer is basically the same nose profile as the 165 RCBS without the fitting problems of a bore ride. But it is slightly shorter too. That is the finest HV bullet I have ever used for 30 caliber in anything from 2 grooves on up if you can reach the lands with it. And you won't need a 30 BHN bullet either. I never tried it for cast type loads though.

A hard 311284 does everything I could want at those levels.

[44man]

Joe, isn't it funny that when we have a gun that is so accurate, it justs sits in the safe? I had a Winnie 52 that was so accurate it was boring. I would pack 10 shots in one hole at 50 yd's, then shoot the four staples out to change the target. Seems as if I never shot it much compared to guns that had to be worked on. My Swedish is like that and I ran out of loads a long time ago. Never bothered to load more. Too easy to hunt with and it is only used to impress people with it's accuracy so it sits in the safe.

[StarMetal]

Charger,

I'll have to dig them up, but off the top of my head one of the really good was with Hodgdon's 870 powder. I had bought that at the time for my 7mm mag and one day tried it in the 03...viola!!! I believe the charge was like around 50 grs. I'll try to find the data if I still have it.

44man

I have a Remington 541-S custom sporter rimfire and I shot the staples out of my best friends target at 100 yards with it, off the bench. Shooting 12 shotgun empty hulls at 100 yards is a breeze with that rifle. At 50 yards it really does drill a hole. Funny, does all this with cheapo and high velocity 22 ammo. Never ever shot any match out of it.

Joe

[sundog]

Just got in from the range. It's HOT! 107 at the range and 103 at the house..., and it's only 2pm.

Here's the best of the best from the 700 VS .308. Both 25.5/5744 and WQ 308-165-SIL with FWFL and GB GCs. 5-shot group 0.840 and a 10-shot group with only 7 holes is 1.329. The really neat thing is that if you lay the 5-shot group target on top of the 10-shot group target, the 5 holes in the 5-shot group target match up with 5 of the holes in the 10-shot group target (which has only 7 holes). Sweet spot, I'd say. I had some more of the same load, identical except for Orange Magic instead of FWFL. Repeatedly about a 3-4 inch group.

I shot some at 200 and got about a 3 inch group, but the mirage was so bad that I figured I was just wasting ammo and used the rest up at 100. Drop at 200 with a 100 zero is about 10-11 inches. I had to stop for awhile several times to let the bbl cool. Luckily we have covered firing points, breeze was light and variable, and a/c club house with water cooler. Drank alot of water. Now, I'm nursing a long neck silver boolit! sundog

[Bass Ackward]

I shot some at 200 and got about a 3 inch group, but the mirage was so bad that I figured I was just wasting ammo and used the rest up at 100. sundog


Corky,

Good work. It will be nice to hear your reports when you really feel comfortable that your 200 yard targets .... are representative of your efforts.

I am interested in whether the MOA is maintained or expands with this light bullet and low velocity load on out.

[44man]

Sundog, do what Joe suggested. Suspend a small target at about 50 yd's that you can aim at but shoot past out to 200 yd's. No mirage! I haven't had a chance to try it yet but it has to work.
Now if I can figure out how to do this at a silhouette match!!!!

[sundog]

http://home.valornet.com/corkyconnell/photos/308target001.JPG

http://home.valornet.com/corkyconnell/photos/308target002.JPG

[felix]

Corky, extremely good 200 yarders, but I bet those are at 100, right? ... felix

[sundog]

Hunert. BUT! It's the best this rifle has done with cast so far. Got a place to work from now. Saturday is a high power match that I prolly will NOT shoot - shoulder is bothering me again, and that kinda takes the fun out of it. So, if I can get some more loaded I'll do a little more testing whilst the match is underway. sundog

[44man]

I sure would not complain with those groups! Nice.