Too Small???

[FallRun]

I just received an order of hard cast bullets in the mail these are for my 357 and they are sized at 357 instead of 358 like he promised what problems should I expect if I go ahead and load these

[45 2.1]

That would depend on the dimensions of the firearm your putting them through, but I think he owes you for supplying the wrong diameter slug.

[felix]

Sell them (or trade) to a guy with a gun having smaller dimensions than yours. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

Colt revolvers tend to run a little tighter than S&W or Ruger, if that helps.

[Char-Gar]

I sized all my bullets .357 for many years and got good results. I now size the larger, but I doubt if you will know the difference between .357 and .358. Shoot em!

[StarMetal]

In my loading and shooting of the 7.65 Parabellum (30 Luger) I have four pistols in that caliber. All, but one, have a tighter bore of .310 and one at .308. The German P08 Luger is .311. I size either .313 or .310. The .310's don't shoot as good out of the Luger as the .313 does, BUT the .313's don't shoot as good out of the other pistols as the .310 does. I know, I did a 3000 round test on all them and some of those pistols are very very very accurate platforms.

So, what I say is you have to try different sizes and see which shoot best in your gun. There's a general trend on this forum towards shooting larger. Most the time that works, but not all the time, and believe me, not all the times aren't as fewer numbers as you may think.

Joe

[StarMetal]

I forgot to say, how do you know your measuring tool is accurate? or even your use of it? No two people can mike something the same. Your mike or technique might be wrong.

Joe

[felix]

Joe, your logic is faulty, my friend! If multiple folks take measurements, how do you dechiper which technique is correct? You cannot by your definition indicate someone is, or might be, wrong! ... felix

[omgb]

I would think that just about any one with a little sense could read the difference between .357 and .358 on a good micrometer. I have a check disk with my mic. I use it to verify the measurement. Every person I've let use the mic gets the same check reading. Of course, my mic is digital. Some guys have trouble reading the vernier scales on standard mics and that might account for some of the trouble. Assuming that FallRun has checked the zero of his tool and that he took measurements from more than one location on more than one bullet, he should be OK. It wouldn't surprise me to find the bullets .001 under size. Many of my Lyman and RCBS size dies are off by .0005 or a tad more so it's possible that the caster trusted his die rather than his micrometer.

[Bass Ackward]

Joe, your logic is faulty, my friend! If multiple folks take measurements, how do you dechiper which technique is correct? You cannot by your definition indicate someone is, or might be, wrong! ... felix


Felix,

What? Who, Joe? Acuse somebody of being wrong? Are you sniffin Alox fumes Felix? :grin:

[Oldfeller]

I don't think micrometers are the very best tool to be measuring the rounded OD surfaces on lead slugs -- it is very easy to impress a small flat on a rounded lead bullet ogive or small band surface using the mechanical force of the thimble screw on even a good digital micrometer. "Clicker" mics even have too much force available even if you click them just once.

Just speaking from having done it myself during a gage R&R study just recently. A good digital caliper lacks the force to be crushing anything and may be the relatively more accurate and reliable tool for lead bullet measurement as compared to a micrometer.

Steel, that's a different story -- use the micrometer !! It isn't going to be deformed by the anvils crushing into it.

Oldfeller

[felix]

Sniff, sniff... sniff, you betcha'. So dry around here that it takes many sniffs instead of one. 106 yesterday at 28 percent. Even a squirrel on an arm-high limb just looked at me squarely when I gently tugged on the limb extending not more than 2 foot from him. His arms were over the limb, lying on his tummy. ... felix

[omgb]

I don't think micrometers are the very best tool to be measuring the rounded OD surfaces on lead slugs --
... A good digital caliper lacks the force to be crushing anything and may be the relatively more accurate and reliable tool for lead bullet measurement as compared to a micrometer.

Oldfeller


I couldn't agree more. i've checked my micrometer readings with my digital caliper and the reading in this case is the same. Some of those dies size much differently than they are marked.

[floodgate]

I'd heardf for years that you couldn't read a non-dial, non-digital vernier caliper to a thousandth, or match a micrometer reading on the same stock. Several years ago I served an informal apprenticeship to a musical instrument maker who had been commissioned to make a run of hurdy-gurdies (if you don't know what it is a "hurdy-gurdy", DON'T ASK!). Michael was a real bug for precision, and worked on me until I could duplicate his readings on components like soundboards, each with his own vernier caliper, to a solid thousandth, ON WOOD! It can be done, but it took me a lot of practice to develop the necessary "feel".

floodgate

[FallRun]

OK Guys thanx for the lesson on reading calipers but I already know how to read mine would anyone out there like to answer my question ? thanx in advance for any help

[klausg]

FallRun- From my experience, granted not much, the worst case is they'll lead like heck and look like a shotgun pattern board downrange. No way to tell without shooting them. Have you measured the throats on your cylinder/ slugged your bore? I think they'd be okay, possibly not as good as .358; I guess it would depend on how many you have as to what I would do with them, but I agree with 45 2.1, he owes you.

-Klaus

[StarMetal]

Well geez fellows. I know some of you that replied are pretty durn smart hombres and should know better then what was said.

Felix you darn well know that places that machine stuff to very close tolerances have highly trained and skilled personel and the atomosphere and temperature is controlled to measurement take place within certain parameters. Fallrun may have miked those bullets when they were real cold, who knows, the box may have sat infront on a AC vent or something.

Fallrun, sent me one bullet, won't cost you much, I'll even mail it back, let me mic it. Maybe sent one to Oldfeller, since he's trained for this stuff..or Felix. To answer your question: NO it won't hurt to shoot them. Like the other poster I've shot literally thousands of 38's and 357 mags with bullets sized at .357. Like Deputy Al said you'll find that most Smiths, Colts, and Rugers have a tighter bore then that. But you'll have a hard time miking a Smiths groove diameter because there are five and you need a special mike for that.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Okay Oldfeller, I'm working on a special micrometer for you to mic lead bullets. The moveable anvil will insulated from the rest of the mic. Here's how it will work. You have an ohm meter set on continuity. One lead clamps to the bullet, the other to a special connection on the mic. You slowly turn the mic in gently until you see a reading on the meter, stopping immediately. Viola!!!! No over turning, no clicker racket crushing. Whatya think Kelly?

Joe

[slughammer]

OK Guys thanx for the lesson on reading calipers but I already know how to read mine would anyone out there like to answer my question ? thanx in advance for any help

Would you like to provide more information so we may dream up a more complete answer?

If your good with your caliper measure your cylinder throats. (This is a revolver, I'm just guessing).

What load do you plan on shooting?

Yup, more info needed; gun, barrel length, throat size, load data, and intended purpose of said loads. Try to make this interesting. Until then, these boys reserve the right to go OT.

:hijack:

[slughammer]

Fallrun, sent me one bullet, won't cost you much, I'll even mail it back, let me mic it. Maybe sent one to Oldfeller, since he's trained for this stuff..or Felix.

Joe

Starmetal, I think it may be better if we all measure the same bullet. If I don't get to choose my place in line I'd prefer to go before Oldfeller, from what I hear the piece will be a different size and mis-shaped after he gets through with it.

[45 2.1]

Check the boolits in the throat of the guns cylinder, if they slip through, you will probably get leading, if they don't, they probably will be all right. As far as Kellys micrometer or calipers go, they seem to measure over about 0.0015" according to what he told me on the 7mm Soupcan buy. Measurements confirmed from several machinist and gunsmiths.

[omgb]

OK Guys thanx for the lesson on reading calipers but I already know how to read mine would anyone out there like to answer my question ? thanx in advance for any help

Possible leading, and reduced accuracy. Now maybe you'll get lucky and they will work fine. My experience has not shown that to be a certainty by any means. however, since you're in it already, why not load a few at lets say 10 grains of 2400 and give them a go. Try a few more at your established "good" load as well and see what happens. After all, what have you got to loose? If they don't work out, trade them off to a pistol shooter or see if the caster will work out an exchange.

[Jon K]

Fallrun,

What are you shooting it in? Have you slugged the barrel?

The Uberti's and a lot of the Italian replicas use .3555 bore grove diameter. If you have a 356 and under barrel, these bullets should work good.

On the other hand, if you ordered .358 diameter bullets, then the supplier should make good on your order, no question about it, he sent you the wrong item!
No matter if it's .001 or .100, different is different.

Jon

[FallRun]

OK Guys heres the deal, The gun is a Smith & Wesson revolver model 19 with a 4" barrel the load is 158 gr. rnfp over 6.3 gr of Unique powder these rounds will be used for Plinkin. I don't know anything about slugging barrels or measureing throats all I know how to do is make ammo and shoot steal targets I was realley hoping I could just shoot these but perhaps I'll have to send them back could someone please explain why a small boolit leads a barrel thanx, Glenn

[StarMetal]

Wow, exactly what I have owned for 30 years, a Model 19 four inch barrel. Well I can tell you that mine definately has a waaaaaay tighter groove diameter then .357 and that mine will shoot .357 sized bullets like no tomorrow. A too small bullet "can" lead because it's not fitting the bore tight and "can" skip or skid along because the rifling isn't getting a good grip on it, but more then likely though the powder gas is getting by the bullet gas cutting it, which "can" cause leading. But then again if the bullet is fairly soft it will bump up and seal. To tell you the truth the guys are making way too much of this. This isn't brain surgery. Nothing bad is going to happen if you shoot them. You shoot a few and check the bore. You get a little lead, no big deal. Don't fall into the rocket science trap of fit the throat, fit the cylinder, fit this, fit that. Hell this is suppose to be fun, fun to load, fun to shoot. The guys hate me here because I can just load paying no particular attention to all the "fit me's" and still out shoot most of them. So this has gone on too long. Either send the darn things back or shoot them. No big deal.

As for your load, my normal average plinking load for my Model 19 has been and still is 6.0 grs of Unique with a 150 gr RCBS SWC bullet I cast. Now I can tell you that 6.3 grs with a 158 gr bullet, although it the books and very very safe, is not exactly a wimpy load. So that in itself may lead with commercial bought cast bullets because we usually don't know the alloy they use and even if they are sized at .358. I for one suggest you cut your load back alittle for plinking.

Joe

[omgb]

A 4" model 19 is what I began loading for back in 1975. I still have it and it loves .357 bullets. I use 10.5 grains of 2400 and a 150 grain RCBS Keith-type FN bullet and get no leading all the way up to 12.5 grains. They guys at Smith when they rebuilt my gun a couple of years ago, (I shot it loose after thousands of rounds and cracked the barrel at the forcing cone) said my gun would last forever if I kept pressures down to the +P range so, these days, I stick with the 10.5 grain load. It's very accurate, has some authority, and is cheap to shoot.

I wouldn't worry about those bullets. Use them and enjoy them.