First Casting Attempts - Advice Needed

[Paratus]

I recently bought a CBE* brass mold for 120gr .310 Cadet heeled bullets. My first attempts have been less than successful. Most bullets have a wrinkled appearance and many were shorter than the cavity length. I had to cut short the session due to rain closing in - I was working outside.

I was using 2 lbs of old fishing sinkers (weights) to 1/2 lb of 50-50 soft solder.

I would welcome any thoughts/advice.

* http://www.castbulletengineering.bigpondhosting.com/default.htm

[Sven Dufva]

I have never use brass molds but i think brass moulds need preheating. Wrinkels usely indikate mold temp is to low. If not have stop casting the bullets had being better and better. Temp on alloy and mould is importent if you wont alloy to fill out good in mould. New moulds can have oil on that gives wrinkels to. Take oil away whit gasolin or alkoholic.

[Paratus]

Thanks Sven. The mold was de-oiled with methylated spirits and the cavity smoked using wooden matches.

I suspect that mold heat is the problem. I did sit it on the melter but is was not particularly hot when I started casting. Cutting short the session would not have allowed it to get up to full operating temperature. I will try preheating next time.

I need to master this......

[grumpy one]

Achieving full casting temperature by preheating is a lot to ask, and not necessary except as a way to save time. You can get the mould up to temperature just by starting in and casting, keeping a steady sustainable rhythm, and the mould will warm up by absorbing the latent heat of fusion from the bullets as they solidify. If you do it quickly and steadily you will probably find it takes twenty or thirty casts to warm up to a point where things are stabilising, and if you aren't getting good bullets by then something else is wrong.

The outcome depends on a combination of how hot the molten alloy is, and how hot the mould is. To a small extent you can speed up the mould warm-up by starting with the metal a bit hotter than necessary, then throttle back the pot when you start to get frosted bullets (indicating they are a bit on the hot side when they solidify).

It sounds as if your problem is that you didn't persist long enough for the mould to warm up. Remember if you pause for a minute or so the mould will cool considerably and you'll have to make more scrap bullets while you reheat it.

There are experts on this board who can preheat moulds sufficiently so they get good bullets from the first cast, but you don't need to do that to get the job done, it just saves time.

Geoff

[Jumptrap]

Mate,

I bought meself a CBE brass mold for the .310..mine is the 130 grain version, and it casts wonderfully..........soo good, it seems to eject the bullets when I open it! It is my first brass mold and I am convinced that metal is THE superior mold material. I wonder about heat....because brass heats very quickly and much more uniformly than iron or aluminum....it seems to have the propensity to heat fast like aluminum and sink/hold the heat like iron. Are you sure your alloy isn't contaminated with zinc? Fishing sinkers are made from anything...there may be your problem. That mold you have should heat thoroughly after 10 pours and drop perfect bullets.

[Bass Ackward]

It is my first brass mold and I am convinced that metal is THE superior mold material. I wonder about heat....because brass heats very quickly and much more uniformly than iron or aluminum....it seems to have the propensity to heat fast like aluminum and sink/hold the heat like iron.


Jump,

Ain't it true. Brass is my favorite material from 30 caliber up to about 400 grain 45s.

The only drawback besides weight (if that bothers ya) is that it is subject to warpage at high block temps. In other words, I would not want to mold large diameter (45 and up) bullets from pure lead that needed to be run at 900 degrees and up.

And I would be afraid to cool it too quick too. I lost one that way as the stress came out of the metal. It also doesn't hold heat quite as well as steel for smaller calibers like 22s.

[Buckshot]

.............Paratus, first of all, welcome to the board and welcome amonge the brethren of the silver stream.

Sounds like either the blocks didn't get hot enough, or they didn't get hot enough because your alloy wasn't hot enough. Wrinkles are were the lead alloy is trying to set up as it's being poured in the cavity. It looses heat to the air as it flows from the pot's nozzle, or if using a dipper it radiates out into the air as you dip it out and move it to the mould blocks.

If when you pour, the sprue puddle is almost immediately solid it's too cool yet. Best to have the alloy hot enough so that you may cast at a good steady pace. Too fast and the blocks can overheat. Too slow and the blocks may loose too much heat. SOunds harder then it is, the band of good heat is fairly wide.

Moulds are also individuals. Some you can just stand there with your hands in your pockets and the mould will cast all the slugs. Others you have to buy'em a box of chocolates and a dozen roses before they perform :-). Or so it seems.

BTW, who's the guy in your avatar? I think I recognize him from someplace.

.....................Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

Rick, that's what jackrabbits look like down under.

[Old Jim]

I have several molds and the single brass one is the best of the lot. Very heavy but the best looking bullets.

[KYCaster]

Paratus: Welcome aboard.

It sounds to me like you need to clean the mold and start over. I'm not familiar with methylated spirits, is that like mineral spirits or is it more like Methyl Ethyl Ketone? Mineral spirits will not evaporate completely and will leave a residue that's hard to burn off. I use MEK and have been happy with the results.

Another thing, your wooden matches may be waxed to help them burn and that will also leave a residue. If you're going to smoke, butane or propane should do better.

Personally, I coat everything with Moly powder, kind of messy to apply but it works well for me.

Hope you find a solution soon.

Jerry

[Paratus]

Thanks for all the responses. My feeling, based on your comments, is that:
1. my alloy was not hot enough, and
2. consequently the blocks weren't able to heat up sufficiently.

I will clean the mould a start over.

As for the avatar, there have been numerous reported sightings of "big cats" in Oz. A lot of these are attributed to circus escapees. This pic of a kangalion is definite proof that they are out there.............:mrgreen:

[grumpy one]

Paratus: I'm not familiar with methylated spirits, is that like mineral spirits or is it more like Methyl Ethyl Ketone?
Jerry

Methylated spirits is British/Australian for denatured alcohol. That's what I use for mould-cleaning too, and it's pretty marginal.

Geoff

[AZ-Stew]

Paratus,

Be careful not to OVERheat your mould. Your alloy can solder itself to the mould, thereby ruining it.

Otherwise, I agree with the others. You either have a contamination problem on the mould surface or you just didn't get it hot enough. I'd lean toward the latter.

Regards,

Stew

[KYCaster]

Thanks, Geoff. Now when somebody asks for methylated spirits, I'll know what they're talking about.

I've never been impressed with alcohols as general purpose solvents and mold cleaners. It always seems to leave something behind that takes a long time to burn off.

Some of the aerosol brake cleaners and gun scrubbers are OK, but some of them don't evaporate completely and it seems like the better ones are always the more expensive ones.

I've had good results with MEK. Any hardware store sells it as PVC pipe primer. Be sure to get the CLEAR PVC PRIMER, not cleaner, and no dyes for color. A half pint can should be enough to clean at least twenty molds, probably twice that many. Just dunk your tooth brush in the can and scrub away.

I tried smoking the cavities several times and had a problem getting consistant results. I really like moly powder (Lyman Super Moly) and graphite works almost as well. Just pick up a little dab on a tooth brush and scrub the cavities, alignment pins, mold top, sprue plate and the sprue plate pivot screw. It doesn't build up and cause problems like wax and grease can.

I haven't yet tried Dan's Bull Plate yet, but its on my to-do list. If it works half as well as everybody says, it must be great stuff.

Jerry

[HTRN]

KYCaster, you can also get MEK, along with Xylene in gallon cans in the paint section of Home Depot - it's with the rest of the solvents in a big blue rectangular can.


HTRN

[StarMetal]

...along with at Lowes, Ace Hardware, etc etc

Joe

[georgeld]

I've cast bullets and sinkers for over 50 yrs and it seemed like I was always fighting it with the heat not right.

A few yrs ago I finally broke down and spent $40 for a Lyman lead thermometer. Since then I dont' cast at all until the melt is at least 700, and closer to 800 seems to work a lot better yet. The main problem since then is fluxing the garbage out so it's good and clean. When it is, getting as perfect results as any I've seen anyone get.

Have never used brass molds, but, it should heat up rapidly and hold heat a lot better than iron or aluminum do. At least that's the way it seems when brazing the stuff, or turning it on a lathe/mill. Stays hot a lot longer than anything else seems to.

Welcome to the board, I'd bet that kangalion is much like our Jackalope's from Wyoming.

[Paratus]

I just finished a hundred good bullets. Not a dud amongst them - :-D !!!

I kept the temp of the alloy up and preheated the mould blocks before starting. The first one was perfect.

[Bigjohn]

Paratus,

Where ya' been? Where you piped up after you joined you sort of disappeared into the scrub.

You sparked a little bit of interest in reloading for the .310 Cadet with your comments which I am trying to answer on our behalf.

I have one of Jim's molds which drops a 113grain boolit and shoots well. It appears as if you have a handle on the ins and out of the mold now so I won't add my two cents worth. They are excellent molds aren't they?

Keep goin' mate and see you around the traps sometime.

:drinks:

John.

[largecaliberman]

I use acetone to clean the molds----brake cleaner will also do. Heat the mold and turn up the furnace a notch or two. If that doesn't work, add a little bit of tin from a soldering bar by dipping a little at a time into the pot. If that doesn't work..................hopefully it isn't contaminated with zinkies.