Berdan primers...what does it take?

[3006guns]

A new law in Congress? Act of God?

This whole rant started because I was trying to find some 7.62 x 54 reloadable brass.......seems everyone is backordered, especially the nice affordable Privi. I have about 400+ rounds of Russian ammo with berdan primed brass cases, on clips no less! That started me thinking..........

I have a lot (thousands) of milsurp ammunition in various calibers, some steel cased but most with nice brass. I have one of the original RCBS bedan depriming tools and it works well the few times I've used it. Hauling that nice sturdy brass to the scrap yard just about kills me and converting the brass to boxer doesn't appeal that much when the proper primer should be obtainable.

Obtaining berdan primers use to be fairly easy, but I don't see them anywhere these days. Another thing that bothers me is the price........always higher for a component that's basically cheaper to manufacture (no anvil).

What does it take to get an importer to bring berdans into the country?

[docone31]

I would think it would be easier to convert the brass.
http://users.ameritech.net/mchandler/primer.html
I was going to do it, but then I got some brass.
Food for thought.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I have been wondering . . . if I were to go on vacation to Europe, and buy some Berdan primers . . . I wonder if there would be any hassles get back with them, or having my Uncle in Switzerland send them to me . . . I know they are haz-mat, but . . .


[smilie=s:

[3006guns]

Well, I sure wouldn't try to bring them back on an airplane........you know what that will get you! We'd be seeing your picture on T.V.

I think you'd have to check into an import broker, probably the only legal way to do it, then ship by sea or something. The import broker would handle the details, but then you would probably need some sort of special Customs permit at the U.S.A. end. Unless you're bringing back several thousand I don't think it would be economical, but it's worth checking into.

I do know that if you're importing something for your own use the fees are much less than for a business.

As an interesting side note, one internet site states that our primer manufacturers actually produce berdan primers for foreign customers.......but won't sell them here!

[GabbyM]

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

they have Lapua there for $85 per c.
Which may more than you spent on the rifle.


http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,5441.html

Buffalo arms shows WW brass for $49 per C.

[MtGun44]

It takes a MARKET for the product. They have been imported over the years and if the
market was there (significant number of peopel buying them) there would be vendors
selling them.

I would bet that the extreme non-standard nature creates a requirement to have stocks
of too many different types, combined with the total PITA for decapping which minimizes
the market penetration.

Boxer primers decap easily and only exist in 4 types (less milspec and benchrest/match
types) of normal primers. Stock quantity requirements are therefore reasonable.

Berdan is fine if you want to load 20 rounds a week, but for real quantity, no way.

[WallyM3]

MtGun, I just checked the links for primers. Seems they're not keeping much stock of any primers. :sad:

[markinalpine]

I think Winchester makes brass case, boxer primed 7.62X54R ammo. Just buy some and reload that.

Before I posted this, I opened another tab and checked around. Sportsman's Guide sells a 20 Rd. box, 180 gr FMJ for $19.77/20 ($18.78 for members), plus S&H (of course!)

Mark :coffeecom

[JIMinPHX]

After trying a few different methods, I found a way to convert the brass Berdan cases to take Boxer primers. More on that here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=50789

My local shop sells primed Winchester boxer brass in that caliber for about 50 or 60 cents each. He has plenty on the shelf. That's the better way to go. You can also get S&B ammo in that caliber from Cabellas. The S&B brass is the boxer type too.

[nicholst55]

Member mike in co sells bulk WW-headstamped brass for an eminently reasonable price. To me, either screwing around with Berdan primers or trying to create a potentially unsafe situation converting a .217" primer pocket to hold .210" Boxer primers is counter productive. I have better things to do with my time, frankly.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=83264

[HeavyMetal]

Tried "salvaging" berdan primed case's years ago.

Honestly it was more trouble than it was worth!

I would take all that fired berdan stuff, I keep a bucket in the garage for aqquired berdan stuff from range trips, and turn it in for cash at the scrap yard!

Then use said cash to buy S&B boxer primed case's and live happily ever after.

Now if you insist because you just want a challange, something I can appreciate, try to see if the Old Western Scrounger is still in business.

I know he stocked them as well as loaded ammo for all the strange rounds man has ever created.

Heck I even saw him advertise 401 powermag ammo!

Got no idea what he'll want for them price wise but I can bet they will not be cheaper than boxer primers!

[3006guns]

All of you are correct of course.......waste of any kind just irritates me, that's all. I went digging in my storage boxes and came up over 1000 berdan primers of various sizes, about 800 of which look correct for the 7.62x54. It looks like they all date from the 1960's or so, but still fresh so I'll reload a few just for the experience. If nothing else I'll get one or two more loads (cast) from the military stuff before it heads for the scrap bucket!

The Old Western Scrounger used to be in Montegue Calif. not far from me, but I see by his website that his stock is almost pitiful compared to what he used to carry years ago (I have one of his very old catalogs). It was fun dealing with "Dangerous Dave" back then!

The last time I hauled my scrap brass to the yard there was over 90 lbs.....netted me just over $100....but I spent the better part of two days sorting, just to make sure there was nothing "live" in the mix.

[MtGun44]

Just curious, what depriming method do you use? I have tried the hydraulic method and
WHAT A MESS and hassle. I have seen the RCBS bottle cap sort of decapper, but it looks
really fiddly and a bit fragile - that tiny little steel tip just looked like it would snap off the
first time you dropped or even slightly mishandled the tool.

It just seems like if the world was ending and I had only 100 rounds of Berdan brass and
lots of time AND the primers, and no boxer brass or primers were ever going to be found,
then I guess I'd fiddle with this. In this life, no way I can afford to fiddle that much for
that little loaded ammo at the end of the day. The Swiss rifle guys are using some swaging
and reswaging method to convert the Berdan GP11 brass to boxer. Again, what is your
time worth? If the boxer is available, that is the solution. Only in my very impecunious
youth would I have the correct $ to labor hours ratio to make this work out.

I think this is the conclusion that most reloaders have come to, and I would imagine that
someone buys 1000 Berdan primers, gets all ready to do battle, finds out how many
loaded rounds per hour the process results in, and never buys any more Berdan primers.
Eventually, nobody is buying them and the importers quit handling them.

Bill

[markinalpine]

I posted one source for Winchester 7.62X54R before. Here's one for another Internet sales company in Ohio: http://www.jandcsales.com/762x54r.html
Scroll down to the last two entries ((Brass case, boxer primed, non-corrosive for $12.50 and $13.50 per 20), which are the Privi Partisan brand, which I've heard is pretty good. Don't know anything about the company either, but if you buy with a credit card, you usually have some protection.
Mark :coffeecom

[Duckiller]

I have a lifetime supply of Berdan primers to use with Swiss GP11 brass. Using the correct sized socket ,a 30 cal bolt and water it is a SLOW process to deprime. Swiss brass is pretty and makes nice reloads, but for serious shooting I will use 284 Win boxer brass.
If anyone gets a chance they should buy some Berdan primers. Because of the work and time involved 500-1000 is probably a lifetime supply. There is a real good reason for Boxer primers, convenience.

[nicholst55]

You know what just amazes me? Hiram Berdan, who developed the Berdan system, was an American. That Boxer fella - he was British. Wonder how/why it is that their respective priming systems were adopted on opposite sides of the pond from where they were developed?

[mike in co]

two things...

i agree 100 percent on the swiss gp11 brass..........which is why i own a sleeve of berdan primers. i use the rcbs tool, but will try hydraulics this summer.

two..i still have the win 7.62x54r boxer primed brass for sale...see the ad in for sale section.

mike in co

[LowPE]

I have more than one lifetime's supply of berdan. I use it in both swiss k-31 and also in 308s. I bought direct from PMC several years back and the cost per 5000 was like $80 -$100.

I use the RCBS can opener. Once the original primer is out, reloaded primers pop out quite easily. The first time can be a pain, tough on the knuckles and you need to make frequent depth changes on the pin to avoid breaking the pin or ruining the brass. Don't mix your brass.

Berdan primed brass, for me, shoot very uniformly. Often, in a 1900 fps boolit, the velocity varies around 10 fps.

The worst part of the entire reloading process is checking the flash holes for obstructions. My eyes aren't what they used to be. Other than that, the process isn't bad.

[NuJudge]

Amen on what a pain in the neck clearing flash holes is. I believe I'm going to go to a case lubricant I can wash off so I do not have to tumble-clean after decapping and sizing.

[cast367]

I reload a lot of years berdan cases. I have made a simpel device to remove berdan primers. Its works fast .
I can not send pics to the forum , only to email dress.

[JIMinPHX]

If you do find some Berdan primers for sale, check what size they are. The sizes of Berdan primers vary quite a bit. It's not simple like it is with Boxer, where you just have large & small.

[JIMinPHX]

This is a picture of the tool that cast367 uses.

[higgins]

The only European military 7.63x54R brass I've personally seen that I would feel safe reloading is the 80s nny/ppu headstamp. The varieties of Albanian and Bulgarian I've shot are too thin, improperly annealed, wrinkled, leaky primer, larger than standard primer, etc. Even if I had berdan primers and the tools, the nny is the only one I would consider reloading. There may be other quality milsurp 54R out there, but I haven't seen it.

[cast367]

higgins,

All the militair cartridges in europa are berdan primed.
In the last 10 jaar start privy partizan with boxers
In1987 start DAG with 3006 boxer cases, I have a lot of them.
IMI as well.

[JIMinPHX]

Here are some more pictures of cast367's tool. He seems like a crafty one.

[azcruiser]

Wolf sells berdan primers and think pmc also or graf and sons . Pain to take out but go in about the same

[mroliver77]

I chucked brass in the lathe and a small end mill in the headstock and cut out the primer head and tit which left a thin bit of the wall of the berdan primer in the pocket. I then swaged on a dillon primer pocket swager. It worked but not as fast and slick as I hoped.
Jay