Observations on my first time casting, and a few questions...

[tbonifie]

Finally got my 60lbs of lead yesterday, it's 92% lead, 6% antimony, and 2% tin (hardball casting alloy). I'm using a Lee casting pot and a Lee 6-bullet mold (.45ACP 200 grain SWC).

* The valve seems to get clogged from time to time. The first time it did this, wiggling the handle on the pot got it to open up again. The second time, I had to finally crank up the temperature before it started flowing again. Is this normal?

* I cast maybe 100 or so bullets, I kept 18. And even the 18 I kept aren't exactly stellar. I started casting at like 900 degrees (before I realized how hot it was) then moved it back to just under 700. I'm thinking temperature has a lot to do with my troubles here. What temperature should I be shooting for? Lee recommended started at 650, but even just above that didn't seem to work so well?

* I followed all the instructions in the Lee loading manual. Used 99% IPA and q-tips to clean the cavities, heated the mold on the pot, used Lee stick beeswax alox bullet lube to lube the mold, used a butane lighter to smoke the cavities. Far as I can tell, I did everything by the book.

* My bullets are much shinier than what I get from MOBUCO. Is this lead too hard for this type of bullet? I have a suspicion that I should be using a mixture with more lead and less antimony/tin for this round?

* The bullets I kept still don't look nearly as smooth as I'd expect, some places where it looks like the metal solidified a bit before more was added. I tried cooling the mold, warming the mold, molding 3-5 sets really fast. The results never seemed to change. What is the right cadence for this?

* Of the bullets I kept, half are between 199.1 grains and 199.9 grains. The other half ranges from 196.2 grains to 198.7 grains, pretty evenly spread. This is about what I expect, maybe slightly better than I expected.

* Measurements of all the ones I kept are pretty consistent: .454 - .455 inch diameter, and 0.589 - 0.591 inch length.

* Once I was done, I put the bullets into a plastic food storage container and shook them around with some liquid alox lube. Tomorrow morning I'll load them up and hopefully shoot them as well... wish me luck!

[sagacious]

Tbonifie,
There's any number of things you may be doing incorrectly. This working with lead is a complicated skill, same as baking a souffle. Just following the directions is only about half the battle-- but you are to be commended for reading the instructions.

If I were to throw a considered dart at the most likely problem, I'd suggest that your mold temp is not high enough. If you're culling good/bad bullets while casting, varying your casting tempo, fiddling with your clogged pot, etc, you cannot keep a steady casting pace and keep the mold temp up. A 6-cavity alumnum mold needs to be kept fairly hot to drop good bullets. Bottom line on mold temp: You can do all of the various things you mentioned, but if the mold is not up to temp for each pour, you're sunk. A too-cold mold is a common and often unavoidable pitfall for those new to pouring lead.

650-750*F is about right for your alloy. A good way to get the mold up to casting temp is to just start casting when your melt is ready. Your first few pours will not fill-out. No matter, just keep casting. As you continue, you will see that the castings become better. When they're perfect, start keeping the bullets. Do not fiddle with the sprues, reject bullets, etc-- just cast. Pour as fast as the cooling sprues allow. Once the mold drops perfect bullets, just keep a steady, uninterrupted pace.

If your first 12 'pre-heat' pours are no good, that's 72 reject bullets. You say you got 18/100, which is not unexpected. Preheating the mold will decrease the number of pours necessary to get perfect bullets. Read-up on preheating if you wish, but 'practice pours' work fine to get the mold up to temp.

Hardball is OK for 45ACP, sizing is king. I use a much softer alloy than hardball, but that's not the source of your casting woes.

The valve can get clogged if you're not fluxing, and if you crank up the heat to 900*F, which creates more drossing and oxides. Did you flux?

The good news is that once you get it, that mold is pretty easy to deal with. Perfection the first time pouring molten lead into tiny holes is not to be expected. You're on the right track, just keep at it. Good luck.

[tbonifie]

Thanks for responding! I did add a "large pea size" piece of Lee stick Alox Bees Wax as the Lee manual suggested, I got the nice large flame from it! I didn't scoop the muck off the top after fluxing, as, honestly, I wasn't sure what it was. I know now that I should have scooped it off. That said, there wasn't much of it anyway, but considering I kept dropping poor bullets back into the pot, I'm sure I mixed a bunch of it in.

I will try again tomorrow night and follow your advice about keeping a steady pace. I didn't cast more than 2-5 loads at a time as I was busy trying to find just one or two that were worth keeping.




Tbonifie,
There's any number of things you may be doing incorrectly. This working with lead is a complicated skill, same as baking a souffle. Just following the directions is only about half the battle-- but you are to be commended for reading the instructions.

If I were to throw a considered dart at the most likely problem, I'd suggest that your mold temp is not high enough. If you're culling good/bad bullets while casting, varying your casting tempo, fiddling with your clogged pot, etc, you cannot keep a steady casting pace and keep the mold temp up. A 6-cavity alumnum mold needs to be kept fairly hot to drop good bullets. Bottom line on mold temp: You can do all of the various things you mentioned, but if the mold is not up to temp for each pour, you're sunk. A too-cold mold is a common and often unavoidable pitfall for those new to pouring lead.

650-750*F is about right for your alloy. A good way to get the mold up to casting temp is to just start casting when your melt is ready. Your first few pours will not fill-out. No matter, just keep casting. As you continue, you will see that the castings become better. When they're perfect, start keeping the bullets. Do not fiddle with the sprues, reject bullets, etc-- just cast. Pour as fast as the cooling sprues allow. Once the mold drops perfect bullets, just keep a steady, uninterrupted pace.

If your first 12 'pre-heat' pours are no good, that's 72 reject bullets. You say you got 18/100, which is not unexpected. Preheating the mold will decrease the number of pours necessary to get perfect bullets. Read-up on preheating if you wish, but 'practice pours' work fine to get the mold up to temp.

Hardball is OK for 45ACP, sizing is king. I use a much softer alloy than hardball, but that's not the source of your casting woes.

The valve can get clogged if you're not fluxing, and if you crank up the heat to 900*F, which creates more drossing and oxides. Did you flux?

The good news is that once you get it, that mold is pretty easy to deal with. Perfection the first time pouring molten lead into tiny holes is not to be expected. You're on the right track, just keep at it. Good luck.

[94Doug]

Most of all...don't give up. Try experimenting a little, you'll find out what this mould wants from you. Maybe a little more time in the cavities, especially when you are bringing the temp up. More lead on the sprue plate. It's ok to start out at a higher temp., then work your way down as the mould comes to temp.

Good Luck!

Doug

[sagacious]

Very good, sounds like you're on the road to success. Don't get frustrated, as you can expect to see definite improvement. Good advice above from 94Doug. Keep us posted.

[DLCTEX]

+1 on getting mould temp up. Many on this board use a hotplate from WalMart to preheat their moulds. Do NOT use the bullet lube to lube your mould. Get some Bullplate lube (available from the Bullshop at the bottom of the page). Meantime use some 2 cycle oil, the oil that is added to gasoline, and apply a tiny amount with a Q Tip to the hot mould. Put it on the sprue plate, alignment pins, hinge, and the top of the mould, almost dry Q Tip here, keeping it out of the cavities. The bullet lube will carbon up the mould and will not lube long, leaving the mould a mess. Do a search on Bullplate lube for more info. Also do a search for "frosted boolits" and see what your boolits need to look like to get good fillout and consistent boolits. Shiny boolits are ok, but it is easier to get good results if you get things hot enough to frost the boolits a little. Smoke in the cavities is really unnecessary , but I sometimes use a #2 pencil to add a bit of graphite to a spot or in the band grooves. Clean lead should not clog the valve and may be an indication you need to crank up the heat. A butane lighter will heat the spout and get it going again. Consistent pace = consistent results.

[nicholst55]

"I kept dropping poor bullets back into the pot"

That's a part of your problem, right there. Wait until you're done casting to sort through your boolits, and add any rejects to the pot either then, or when you first turn it on. That will allow your alloy to reach and hopefully maintain a stable temperature.

If you're using a bottom-pour pot, you can cover the top of the alloy with ground charcoal or sawdust - essentially any natural substance that will burn and create carbon. This will greatly reduce the amount of oxidation that you experience, and keep your alloy from separating as quickly. If you don't do this, flux as often as you need to. You'll develop an eye for this as time goes on.

Don't give up, it's just getting good!

[Bret4207]

Read Sagacious 3rd paragraph 5 or 6 times. That's your problem. Pot temp is relatively unimportant, mould temp is very important. Pot temp need to be high enough to pour smoothly and it has to match your casting rate or tempo to maintain perfect mould temp. Pot temp is the rough adjustment, mould temp is the fine adjustment. Always better to have your mould a trifle hot than cool.

Stop playing with the castings and don;t worry aobut them. Just keep pouring until you get good boolits. And don't be surprised if it takes a couple sessions for the mould to straighten up and fly right. You have 6 times the problems of a single cav to deal with, it takes some time to get the hang of it and to get the mould working right.

[bigboredad]

one thing that really helped me out was reading the stickies on here. there is so much good help in the stickies that after reading and following the advice you will be casting like a pro. of course you still have questions as you go along but do yourself a favor it will save you tons of headaches ask me how I know after wanting to pull my hair:evil: out I st down did some reading and now casting is a joy and something I do everyday just to help me relax[smilie=w:

[Echo]

You have received some good advice here. My advice is somewhat at variance, but still, it's worth what you are paying for it!

>My< suggestion is to throw the sprues and sour boolits back in the pot as you make them. Pour a mold full, let the sprues set, knock the sprue, grab the sprue (w/gloved hands!) and throw it back into the pot (takes 3 seconds), observe the bases of the boolits for rejects (rounded heels), open the mold & dump boolits. Pour another mold full, and as the sprue sets, cull boolits back into the pot. Knock sprue, iterate.

I like to do it this way as it doesn't take that much extra time away from the actual casting, and it uses the (usually) wasted time waiting for the sprue to set. It also re-introduces hot sprues and culls into the pot, rather than cooled-down stuff.

I find that I have to cool my 6-bangers down with a sopping wet shop towel laid in a shallow pan next to the setup. When I decide to cool (based on sprue becoming brittle, with a different texture) I fill the mold, let the sprue set, then turn it over, sprue-side down, onto the sopping towel and let it steam for maybe 5 seconds.

FWIW...

[454PB]

Like Bret has said, controlling temperature is done by the casting speed. Yes, you can manipulate the thermostat and TRY to control it, but in the end, your casting rythym determines the mould and boolit temperature.

I cast for 35 years before I owned a proper thermometer. I now know that my melt should be around 700 to 750 degrees. I pitch shiny boolits right back into the furnace, because I've learned proper castings have a light frosted appearance with any alloy below linotype.

[snuffy]

I have to say this; The Lee 6 cav sprue plates use the cam shear method to break the sprues loose from the boolit bases. This takes a lot of leverage to do. In my experience, you MUST have the mold near operating temp before trying to cut the sprue. I snapped the handle off one mold by NOT following that rule.

As for the OP's problem, it's simply not enough heat. In his case, not enough heat build up in the mold. How are you reading temp? The numbers on the dial on the Lee pots are not calibrated in 100 degree increments. They are simply reference points. Without an accurate thermometer, you simply don't know what the temp is.

Also, the spout "clogging up", it wasn't clogging, it was freezing. The lead simply got too cold, it'll happen every time your below 650 degrees with that alloy. The spout is far enough away from the heating element to allow it to cool enough for the lead to solidify in it.

I NEVER smoke any of the Lee molds, and I have a lot of them. Also, bullplate sprue lube from the bullshop here on cast boolits is the best way to lube anything on a mold. It doesn't burn at casting temps, so it doesn't interfere with the mold closing because of build-up.

[qajaq59]

All good advice, and keep in mnd that none of us cast like a pro when we started. Get into a rhythm when the mold is the right temp and it'll all come together for you.

[kbstenberg]

Everyone has given good advice. If i could add one thing to what Snuffie said. To eliminate the possibility of breaking the sprue cam lever. Start casting in only 1 or 2 cavities for 2 or 3 rounds an start casting from the sprue plate's hinge end. Then add another cavities for another 2 or 3 rounds. As your warming the mold your also putting less stress on the cam-lever, sprue plate, and hinge pin.
Just my .02cents
Kevin

[mooman76]

Lots of good advice here. You started out the hard way with a 6x mould. Better to start off with something smaller. Still doable, just like learning to run before you learned to walk. Like stated 6x's need allot of heat and the last thing you need to do is other stuff while casting. Keep things to a minumum and have everything you need and at hand. After you learn and it starts coming natural you can do some ot.her stuff while casting and you'll wonder why it was so hard before. Also bullets don't have to be perfect to shoot. The better bullets will come later.

[WHITETAIL]

tbonifie, Welcome to the forum!:redneck:
And keep at it.
It will all come together as you put some time in.
Just like anything elts, More you practice the better you get at it.

[GeneT]

Lots of good advice here. You started out the hard way with a 6x mould.

I was about to say this. I'm pretty amateur myself and while I've been getting acceptable (to me) results with a 2-banger, my first attempt with a 6-up was like learning to cast all over again.

GsT

[82nd airborne]

+1 on what kbstenberg said, just because you have 6 cavities doesnt mean you have to use them all at first. i heat the mould in the pot, when the lead slips right off of the outside, your mould is close to operating temp.

[tbonifie]

Bit of an update:

I shot 17 of the 18 I kept yesterday, the load was pretty light (6.2 grains Universal) and didn't cycle the action all the way) and they didn't cycle the action every time, the brass was literally dropping at my feet.

I went back today and started casting some more following the tips above. I spent a LOT more time making sure the cavities were well smoked, and I fluxed correctly. After about 10 casts, I started getting the hang of it and finding the right rhythm, I now have a few hundred very nice looking 45ACP SWC bullets! It took me a bit to get the temps right, but once I did, they all started coming out beautifully and looking like ideal bullets!

Only one hiccup today, and I hope it's not a fatal one for my mold. At one point I set it on a wet towel to cool it a bit, but I think I may have left it there too long and possibly warped it a little. I now have to pound the mold together and apart to get it to work right. Next time I go out to cast I'll put some more lube on the pins, but I think I may have screwed it up.

that's ok even if I have to buy a new mold, I feel like I have a clue what I'm doing now and getting decent results!

[454PB]

NO NO!

Never, ever pound on a mould!

If it isn't closing properly, figure out why.

I doubt that you warped it, but next time it needs cooling, just touch it quickly on a damp rag or sponge. When I'm water dropping and the mould gets too hot, I actually dip the corner into the water while the cavities are still full. Just long enough to cause a "hiss". I've done infrared readings on moulds in use, and it's amazing how drastically their temperature drops after a quick dab on a wet sponge.

[HeavyMetal]

If your mold isn't closing right something is way wrong!

While it is cool take it off the handles and seperate the two halfs. Using a strong magnifiying glass check the pivot points on the mold, wouldn't be the first time some melted lead stuck to a mold and made it hard to use!

Second dump the use of boolit lube on the mold! All that does is make a sticky mess and possible issues with the mold closing. Use Anti sieze until you get some bull plate lube!

Look hard at the alignment pins and the steel inserts they fit into when the mold is closed. Your looking for burrs, melted lube build up, melted lead you may have missed.

Never force a mold to open or close! If it doesn't feel right it's not!

Now if you have the mold working right lets start casting: plug in the pot and turn up the heat I usually run my Lee pot around the number 8. By the way the numbers on the dial mean diddly squat! They are strictly for reference!

I use exactly the same alloy you have and have found that 725 to 750 works good for me.

As soon as you get the pot plugged in set the mold on top of the pot sprue plate down!

This will heat the mold from top to bottom when you start casting. It should take a good half hour for the pot to come up to temp and stabilize 40 minutes is better!

Leave the mold on top of the pot the entire time you are waiting for it to stabilize alloy temp!

A clean mold should not need to be "Smoked" A mold is not jerky, it is not fish and it is not a Marlboro! If you have issue with boolits releasing from the mold you have burrs in or on the cavities and you should remove them not smoke the mold!

Now you flux the alloy. Once again forget boolit lube! All that will get you is fire and smoke!

Get some pet bedding from the local Wal Mart or Pet-Co, you want pine or red wood bedding chips. A little goes a long way. When you are ready to flux toss a small amount on top of the melt and wait for them to turn to ash. Once the are black as coal stir the pot with a 1/4 inch wood dowel. It will spit and sputter when you stick it in the pot so start slowly!

Once you have the dowel into the pot and touching the bottom start stirring and scraping the side of the pot as well. it to will burn and char up. This is a good thing and the dowel will be a sacrifical piece anyway. once stirred well use a spoon or a Lee ladle to skim the top of the melt.

Now cast! Boolits should be well formed and have crisp edges as well as a sharp base.

They do not need to be shiney! Do not inspect boolits past the first two or three pours! To do so ruins your rythem and allows the mold to cool off to quickly.

Once you are certain the wrinkles are gone and the boolits are cleanly cast keep pouring and don't look back! You cull your boolits in a seperate QC scan after your done casting.

Get as large a sprue as you can on the sprue plate that will help the sprue plate hold the heat and get a hot plate for keeping it hot during casting or when ever you set it down to check something. Sprues come right off the plate and go into the pot while they are still smokng hot!

I hope this info helps.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I really like what Heavy Metal had to say above. I would also encourage you to read some on Bruce B. There is an item in the sticky section about speedcasting. Read it over. There is a lot of good stuff in there about ergonomics and working smart. This is an experienced caster who has seen the Elephant.

I agree with Bullplate, the sponge under the rag on the plate with cold water, a 5 gallong bucket with 4 gallons of water and a nice layer of those nasty foam plastic packing peanuts to keep the splashing down. I dump all sprue and rejct booltis into a carboard carton and empty that only when I add new alloy to the mix.

When I get going I do not want to stop for anything until I am out of lead. The sprues and rejects are not going anywhere without help. They can pile up until the box is full for all I care. I am interested in quality boolits in quantity in an effiecient manner. A properly Leemented Lee 6 banger is a joy to use if it had been properly prepared and broken in. I have been clocked making an average of 30 boolits a minute over a 15 minute period with the 200 gr SWC Lee boolit mold.

My biggest problem is getting some ww's around here. It is getting really difficult as a lot of folks seem to be hunting them down. I have had some success to getting medical lead from x ray rooms and such but that is pure alloy and really not good for plinking pistols.

[qajaq59]

I agree with all above. Especially the magnifying glass. The last time I had a mold that didn't want to close all the way it took me ten minutes with the glass to find a tiny piece of lead that was keeping it from closing. It doesn't take much to do that.

[tbonifie]

Well, I inspected the mold and didn't find anything amiss. I went ahead with another casting session tonight, I don't need to "pound" the mold together, just pressing the handles together firmly seems to do the trick. It can sometimes take a bit of force to get them to open again after filling with lead, but it seems to be working well.

I've probably cast about 800 bullets now and kept about 600. My first session was mostly badly wrinkled bullets which didn't fill out right, but the ttwo sessions since then have gone much better. I'm now keeping nearly every bullet cast and they're looking very nice. I'm beginning to get a good feel for how hot the mold is based on how fast the sprue hardens and taking my time before filling it back up again to let it cool. Probably 30 seconds or so per cast.

Pretty cool hobby, I'm OCD enough that I'll probably be doing this for a long time to come. I placed an order for a Lee 2-bullet 380 mold as well!

Now I just need to find a truckload of cheap lead, that first 60 lbs I bought is going quick!!!

[qajaq59]

Now I just need to find a truckload of cheap lead, that first 60 lbs I bought is going quick!!! Hand gun bullets seem to eat lead faster then the rifles do.

[63 Shiloh]

Quote" It can sometimes take a bit of force to get them to open again after filling with lead, but it seems to be working well."

I have found with my Lee six cav that difficulty in opening the mould seems to be caused by a low mould temp. I don't have any scientific basis for this, just an observation.

I have picked up a huge wealth of knowledge on this site, the tip on having a small elec hotplate for mould warming really helped with proper fill out and getting good boolits quickly.

As others have mentioned, the aluminum moulds do require a bit more heat in the melt to work well.

My casting method for the 6 cav Lee moulds:

1. Clean with hot soapy water with a firm toothbrush, rinse well under almost boiling water. When cool, clean the cavities with a Q-Tip and acetone.

2. whilst waiting for the melt to come up to temp, place mould on hotplate to get it warm, when nice and hot apply BullPlate sprue lube to pins and the underside of the sprue plate.

3. Flux when up to heat, flux every 20 mins. I aim for a temp of 780-800 F for the melt.

4. I hold my 6 cav on my mould guide so it is at a small angle; i have the handles lower than the end of the mould block.

5. I start filling the cav closest to my hand and fill the others by pulling the mould towards me. Try to have the spout pouring in the cavity just on the edge of the sprue hole. I like to have all cavities filled with a generous spue, one that allows all the sprues to be joined by a small amount of lead. It then gives you a strip of sprues when you cut them, easier to keep organised and the extra spue allows for shrinking and helps with heating the sprue plate.

6. Invariably, the mould will get a little too hot after a few hundred boolits, I use a thick microfiber kitchen sponge, soaking wet, in a small metal pan. I just place the mould spue side down on the sponge for about 3 seconds, this helps cool the sprue faster and allows me to cast in a nice rhythm.

Anyway, sounds like you are getting the hang of it mate, have fun.

Mike

[Hang Fire]

I have a few problem molds that seem to take forever to start casting right. I solved the problem by giving them a preheat with a heat gun, if alloy temp is right, I now get good boolits from the first get go.

[tbonifie]

Well, the bullets are coming out very nice, and I don't think the mold is too cool any longer, if I let it get too hot I start getting nice frosty bullets, try to go slow enough so that doesn't happen much.

Not sure why it takes a bit of force to get the mold open/closed, but it seems to be working just fine at this point other than that.