Why So Many Designs???

[BCB]

I was just looking at a listing/pictures of Lyman, Ideal, RCBS, Lee and N.E.I. molds. There must be hundreds and hundreds of designs and it is amazing the number that are still available. Now then, I have only been casting bullets for about ½ dozen years and I have acquired about 20 molds (don’t laugh! I suspect some of you pros have hundreds of molds!) from the above companies with the exception of Ideal. These particular molds/designs work very well in all the calibers/cartridges that I reload and shoot. They include .357, .365, .277, .284, .308, .429, the 32 Long Colt heel bullet, and a 12 gauge slug. That covers all the caliber that I shoot cast bullets in.
So, I wonder, were all the mold designs that are shown and available made for a specific use? Or where many of them designs that just never caught on?..BCB

[LET-CA]

I am a real newbie when it comes to casting, but as an experienced business man, I feel confident in saying that once the investment is made in the equipment, the mould manufacturers want to keep the equipment well utilized with whatever will sell. There are some pretty specialized moulds out there, and with the changing attitudes towards weight vs. velocity some designs will become more or less popular based on whatever trends are enjoying the most popularity. (Who would have ever though in 1940 that they'd still be selling round ball moulds for muzzel loading rifles in 2006?!)

I happen to enjoy the 44 caliber bullets and have put together a pretty good selection of the heavier weights for from Lyman, Saeco and RCBS.

I'd really like to see Lee offer up some of the custom group buy moulds on a continuing basis. I'd happily pay a few extra dollars for some of the past buys.

As noted above, I have a lot to learn about casting, but really enjoy it. This forum has made it possible to dramatically shorten the learning curve.

[imashooter2]

I believe a lot of it is profit motive. Once you sell an individual a mold that will never wear out, your only opportunity to make another dollar from him is to sell him a different design.

[Char-Gar]

Well..Having been unable to catch a Leprechaun to force him to give me his pot of gold, I have been reduced to trying to find the end of the rainbow.

The myriad of designs are probably the result of nuts like me in their never ending, everlasting search for cast bullet nirvana.

[jballs918]

also you must think that a bullet may not do it for that caliber. ie the 38 and 357. there are configs from about 90grains to 200 or so. i guess its have to do with perpose vs proformance vs what your gun likes. that is the great thing about casting is that there are so many designs that you can get to get the custom fit of our gun. just my 2 cents

[trk]

Hmmm. Mould design has grown over the years. Fundamental principles of good bullet design have come a little at a time. One only has to look back as far as Dr Mann - 1900-1920 time frame for much of his research.

Look at the capabilities of measuring pressure - and the understanding of the pressure peaks and curves.

Look at the development of lubes - only in the last few decades have we moved past 50/50 Alox and beeswax which isn't that old.

Why so many - well, I think I've got a design that will ....

And what sells is not always what works best.

[floodgate]

Another reason for the great number of more-or-less similar designs in the older Ideal moulds was that each manufacturer had a preferred bullet nose shape and crimp location (like, Marlin liked wide meplats, having had some magazine fires in military trials in the 1880s) and even "trademark" profiles (the .38 "Colt" Special with a flatter point than the .38 S&W Special). And the earlier Ideal tong tools often had fixed, non-adjustable seat / crimp chambers, cut to match the factory designs. Some of these have persisted down to the present day, like the "Marlin" #457193 flat-point vs. the "Government" #457124 RN, both with 4 grease grooves and essentially the same 405 gr. nominal weight. Another one is the old #358250 for the .38 S&W Special with its two narrow grease grooves. Target shooters wanted more body bearing surface fore and aft, so they went to a single, wider groove, but held the same 158-gr. weight, RN profile, and crimp location to come up with the current #358311. Many, many other examples, but you get the idea.

floodgate

[kodiak1]

I think that all of you are right in one way or another. The biggest factor is John Q Public, BUILD IT AND THEY WILL BUY. Ther is not one bullet mould style or weight out there in production now or past that you won't find someone whom likes it.
If you like it you tell someone else he seen you shoot it in your gun and it was the magic bullet. He buy's if it works the way he wants or expects it to it is the wonder bullet from allah. If it don't well the majority of us that own two or three five gallon pails of moulds KNOW that they never leave, get sold or given away be cause someday you may own the gun that it will work in.
Does that sound close to any of you? I am a two pail man myself working on the third, those dang pails are heavy full of moulds!
Ken.

[Bass Ackward]

It is hard to imagine today, but for the longest time, guys tended to be one rifle men. They got bored. So a new mold was a way to reivigorate interest and the marketplace responded. Today, you have deciples that people want to follow and ofcaorse, they need a whole new mold line. Before Elmer Keith, all hangun bullets were round noses or roud nose flat points. Along comes Elmer who writes about them and low and behold, every design becomes a Keith derivitive. Up until about 1980 you couldn't buy a RNFP in it's true sence.

Then along came Veral Smith who "invented" the round nose flat point AGAIN. and now you see more of those coming into the picture. Some guys like wide drive bands and some designs feature small ones. It all adds up to freedom of choice.

Today, a new mold is a lot cheaper than a new gun. But if you just .... have .... to get a new gun, you are going to need some molds. Dan at Mountain Molds once told me that it was common to have a guy buy a new handgun and order $1000 worth of molds all at the same time. I think that the largest order he had at that time was a $2000 order. Even at $100, that's 20 molds in a single pop.

[beagle]

I must admit to having the "mould quest" sickness myself.

As TRK pointed out, many of these designs are evolutionary in nature as cast bullet technology progressed.

Many of the custom makers tend to "clone" old Ideal/Lyman designs as they're no longer available as production moulds. This creates lats of identical designs from makers such as NEI.

Then, the guns that we reload for tend to force changes. The lever action craze of the last ten years has forced many flat nosed designs to the forefront of the pack as well as the many cowboy designs.

The old masters such as Keith and Louverin made a lasting impression on mould designs for many years. In fact Keith's designs dominated pistol mould designs by many manufacturers for 40 years until SSK and LBT brought out their designs for the big bore handguns. Only with the popularity of IPSC, cowboy, BPCR and sillouhette shooting have we seen a change in factory designs.

The subtle changes in wheel weight alloy also affected the as cast diameter of many designs.

It's a constantly changing field of technology and fun to work with. Guess that's why we're into it.

Having played with probably 300 different mould designs in my lifetime, I've found out that they all won't shoot accurately for my particular brand of shooting. They may have at some point in history but they don't work for what I want them for.

Man, ain't it great trying to find out though???/beagle

[Old Jim]

Why so many molds? I don't like the one you designed and I can design one that's better.

[georgeld]

Yes sir, that's the idea's guys!