New to Casting Alloy Questions

[saalfelder]

I've never casted a bullet before. So far my casting experience is limited to fishing jigs.

I want to start off casting hunting bullets for my 357 and 44 mags. Tho the 357 is carried as a trail gun. Though If it works out I see a possibility of casting for other calibers.

I don't have ready access to wheel weights. The lead I've been using for fishing jigs is coming from cast bullets I bought from a guy who quit reloading. I don't know what kind of alloy they are. They're a bit undersized and the ones I shot leaded horribly at 38 special velocities when lubed with liquid Alox.

So I was wondering. Is Lyman number 2 alloy a decent alloy for a pistol hunting bullet? Or do I need something harder.

[Shiloh]

Yes Lyman # 2 is harder than WW. Sounds to me like a sizing issue. See if Lyman #2 casts a bigger boolit.

I use range scrap for pistol boolits. I get zero leading whether lubed with alox or conventional lube. Slug your barrel. See what the size is. This will give you a starting point.

Boolit size is king.

SHiloh

[qajaq59]

Shiloh is correct. Once I slugged the barrels and sized the bullets correctly, 99% of the leading problems just disappeared on my rifles.

[Echo]

+1. Measurement is where it's at. What is the (measured) OD of your cast boolits? I assume you are using Lee TL boolits and aren't sizing them, since you didn't mention sizing. Nor did you mention the alloy you are using, nor the lube, although I am assuming LLA.

WE NEED DATA!

And Welcome to the Forum!

[fredj338]

All true. A hard, slightly small bullet can lead badly at low vel.

[WHITETAIL]

saalfelder, Welcome to the forum!:-P

[Cherokee]

Welcome to the forum. Lyman #2 is actually harder than you need for pistol use if the bullet fit is correct, about .001 or .002 over the measured bore diameter of the bl.

[Bret4207]

Lyman #2 is a great rifle alloy. IMO it's harder than you need for most handguns velocities. Try cutting the #2 50/50 with WW. Of course you have to find some WW now.

Fit is king with cast. Always remember that and you'll be off to a good start.

[saalfelder]

I plan to load to about 1300 fps in 357 and 44 magnum.

If my scrap lead is indeed wheelweights (I'm sure that's what he told me). Should they be water dropped at this Pressure?

I want the bullets to expand a little.

The scrap bullets do indeed measure between 357 and 358. I planned on melting them into something better. I don't have any molds yet.

[MtGun44]

No need to use anything harder than air cooled wheel wts in .357 mag or .44 mag at full
velocities in any properly dimensioned pistol without some pathology in it's dimensions.

Generally, you won't get expansion with water dropped at pistol velocities.

If you use 15:1 or 20:1 lead to tin pure alloys (not wwt with antimony and arsenic) you will
get expansion with most/all HP versions of the Keith or LBT designs. Some HP designs may
expand at magnum velocities with aircooled WWt alloy. The waterdropped will either
usually not expand or may shatter with hard alloys like linotype which are brittle.

Read Bret's post about 3 more times and you will be well ahead.

FIT is much more important than hardness in leading issues. Too soft can be a problem,
but MUCH less than most folks think. The commercial cast "hard cast is the one great
virtue" folks have brainwashed everyone. They are wrong. Fit is the great virtue.

[fredj338]

I plan to load to about 1300 fps in 357 and 44 magnum.

If my scrap lead is indeed wheelweights (I'm sure that's what he told me). Should they be water dropped at this Pressure?

I want the bullets to expand a little.

The scrap bullets do indeed measure between 357 and 358. I planned on melting them into something better. I don't have any molds yet.
Even air cooled ww will fail to give reliable expansion. They tend to want to fragment. The antimony makes them a bit brittle. I use 25-1 or no harder than 20-1 lead/tin for LHP alloy. It's more ductile than ww alloy & the petals tend to saty attached & not shear off. If you cut clip-ons 50/50 w/ pure lead, it will work too, but you'll get the occasional partial nose blown off.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272-1K.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/45-215gr.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/9mm-136-1200.jpg

[Bret4207]

Someday when I have lots of time, and no relations bothering me about taking care of every insignificant little problem they have, I'm going to try simple lead/tin alloys and see what they're like. I think I played with them years back, but I know I've been using WW exclusively for a good 30 years.

[saalfelder]

Thanks for all the info everyone.

What kind of molds are those? Those bullets look outstanding

I'm assuming gas checks are a big plus with softer alloys and full power magnum loads.

[303Guy]

Welcome aboard, saalfelder - to the world of confusion and controversy!:mrgreen: And fun! Mostly fun.:drinks:

Here is a sample of what was supposed to be largely pure lead and tin alloy.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/20gr2205_146PP.jpg

This started life as a 146gr boolit and became subject of a load of 4227 with WB filler. It was fired into soft, fine sea sand (made of mostly shells). Notice how it 'splashed' rather than shatter. That's ductility!

The best part of that particular alloy is the ease of casting.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/157gr_mysteryalloy.jpg

A previous alloy did this - and I was blaming my molds and myself!

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/CastingDefects.jpg

Someone suggested that those were turds!:mrgreen:
(There is a resemblence![smilie=1:)

[Bret4207]

Thanks for all the info everyone.

What kind of molds are those? Those bullets look outstanding

I'm assuming gas checks are a big plus with softer alloys and full power magnum loads.

That mould looks like one of our custom Group Buy Cramer HP moulds. You'll find info in the Group Buy section. But here's something to remember- The mould isn't the key- it's the guy running it. When you start out in this game you should have only one goal- producing as close to perfect boolits as possible. You can do that with a $500.00 H+G or a $14.00 sale bin Lee. It ain't the arrow, it's the indian shooting it as the late Gen Custer might have said!

GC are a big plus at any speed IME. But, they're getting costly, they're a pain to handle with anything like man sized fingers, and they add additional steps and variables to an already complex exercise. If I could, I'd never handle a stinkin' GC again! But since I'm not a genius and can;t figure out how to get around some apparent limits, I use 'em and complain mightily.

But yes, they do help a lot as pressures rise, and not just with softer alloys.

[qajaq59]

For what it's worth Bret I now spread them out on the bench and push the bullet into them till they snap and then put it in the 450 sizer. That way I never have to handle the GCs just the bullets. The GCs are just too small for my hands.

[Cowboy T]

Alloy strength does matter some. There's an article over at www.lasc.us that goes into this. Also, Dick Lee in his book "Modern Reloading" goes into it.

I use air-cooled BHN 15-16 alloy (92/2/8) for my .357 Mag and "Ruger-Only" .45 Colt loads. Lube is liquid Alox. I get zero leading. In the case of .357 Magnum, these are not quite full-power loads, but reasonably close, about 27,000 PSI.

For light .38 Spl, "regular" .45 Colt, and .44 Special, I use straight WW, air-cooled (BHN about 11). Lube is liquid Alox. Again, pretty clean barrels.

Boolit size is important, true. But I've learned, through experience, that you actually can get away with boolits about 0.001" and even 0.002" below the "official" bore size and still avoid leading...IF you choose an alloy that is a good pressure match for your load. But if you go too hard or too soft, yep, you'll have leading.

[lwknight]

Cowboy , I normally would not bother to point out that 92+2+8=102 but, I'm curious as to whether you are actually using 8% antimony or if it is a typo.
I have not used more han 6% antimony and get fairly hard boolits.

[Bret4207]

Alloy strength does matter some. There's an article over at www.lasc.us that goes into this. Also, Dick Lee in his book "Modern Reloading" goes into it.

I use air-cooled BHN 15-16 alloy (92/2/8) for my .357 Mag and "Ruger-Only" .45 Colt loads. Lube is liquid Alox. I get zero leading. In the case of .357 Magnum, these are not quite full-power loads, but reasonably close, about 27,000 PSI.

For light .38 Spl, "regular" .45 Colt, and .44 Special, I use straight WW, air-cooled (BHN about 11). Lube is liquid Alox. Again, pretty clean barrels.

Boolit size is important, true. But I've learned, through experience, that you actually can get away with boolits about 0.001" and even 0.002" below the "official" bore size and still avoid leading...IF you choose an alloy that is a good pressure match for your load. But if you go too hard or too soft, yep, you'll have leading.

Were it me I'd qualify that with "...in some guns..." IME some guns are very cast friendly and some are just finicky. You're depending on obturation for fit. It works, but as you pointed out, get the alloy wrong and it's kaput! I still use some loads like that, but prefer to fit the boolit and not depend on obturation at all.