Lyman Enfield .58 Percussion

[BowHunter252]

Anyone know anything about these? I just picked one up yesterday and haven't been able to find anything on them online. It is still in the box, supposedly never fired. Any idea as to the value? Hope I got a decent deal. I will post some pics later.

I have been looking for a .58 for a while and have a .58 mini mold, but not sure if I should fire this one or if it would have any collector value.

[405]

Collector value?- not especially. Mostly a shooter type gun. Look online at any of the current or recent past Italian Muskets, Enfields or Zouaves for sale and that should be a reasonable guideline.

[oldhickory]

It's been a while since Lyman imported any military re-pops. I haven't known them to import an Enfield, (but I've been wrong before). When I started skirmishing, I bought a Lyman Zouave, (made by Antonio Zoli...zoli-zooie's we called em) new for $85.00, Yeah it was a while ago. After 2 skirmish seasons with few hits, I bought an original Springfield and never bought another Italian re-pop, (there was a few English made Parker-Hales though...).

I would say if it's a Lyman Enfield and not a Zouave, you may get $500.00 for it in the box with papers. A lyman stamped zoli-zooie, $350.00-$400.00. Pics would help.

[BowHunter252]

With my calipers, I got .586 for the bore diameter at the grooves. Does this sound about right?

Here are some pics

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/viper252/Guns/IMG_9124.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/viper252/Guns/IMG_9121.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/viper252/Guns/IMG_9117.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/viper252/Guns/IMG_9115.jpg

[oldhickory]

Ah, it's a musketoon. I may, (or may not remember those from the 70s). Groove diameter really isn't too important in these, (it may have progressive depth rifiling) it's the land dia. that should be of concern for shooting Burton, (minie) boolits. These can have either 3, or 5 groove rifling and should be measured with a set of pin gauges for an accurate reading. Land dia. should be somewhere between .575-.580, approx. Twist should be 1:48 for musketoons and use a charge between 45-65grs. (I always use 3F, but some shoot best with 2F). Correct boolit dia. should be .001-.002 under land dia. for best shooting, (the hollow skirt will expand and grip the groves just fine and properly set up with good ammo, it should shoot around 2 MOA at 100yds).

Who's the maker? I would guess Zoli, but not sure.

[BowHunter252]

The lands measured .577, so I gues that is good. The boolit should be smaller than the land diameter? That should make for easy loading.

I guess the maker is Lyman, that is what the box and barrel say.

[405]

Lyman to my knowledge, doesn't, hasn't made guns. They contract with foreign companies to make them. I think Antonio Zoli was one of the primary ones that produced the Lyman "Zouave". One thing to do and maybe find out is to remove the lock and check on reverse of plate. And, remove barrel and check near breech for any stampings that might indicate country of origin. You'll need to take it apart like that at some point anyway to clean it correctly.

You can try one of the pure lead, .575-.577 dia. minies over maybe 40-50 grains of black powder to see how that works then try a roundball load. At .577 bore diameter and .586 groove diameter you might also try some .560-.570 patched roundballs also over a fairly light charge. You can adjust patch thickness for best fit.

[oldguns]

I have one of those, bought about 25 years ago. It has the "DGG" proof which I believe is Euroarms. Mine had a tight spot in the bore, the second time I got a minie stuck there I lapped it out. Shoots pretty good now.

[Buckshot]

................Many years ago after buying my Parker-Hale Whitworth, a few months later I bought a P-H 2 band P1858 Naval Pattern musket. A shooting buddy "3 Band Bob" (Bob Clark) had been into shooting the military muskets for quite some time. He'd been shooting a 1st model M1855 Springfield for some time when I first got to know him. He and a freind of his would go out to the desert by Ft Irwin to shoot their muskets. They used a dry lake bed about 1.5 miles across. Bob had one of those camper/motor home deals built on a Nissan pu chassis and would spend a couple days shooting at 200, 400, and 600 yards.

So one Tuesday he shows up with a 3 Band Enfield he'd bought someplace (I forget). It was Lyman marked but carried European proofs. I'm pretty sure it had an 'unauthentic' 48" twist. That was the most eager to please rifled musket I'd ever seen or shot. And it was a very pretty rifle too. One Tuesday with the each of us sitting on either side of a bench we took turns shooting the 200 meter gong, and we whanged it relentlesly. I'd load and shoot, then hand it across the bench and he'd do the same.

That barrel got hot, and hitting that plate (11" x 14") was no problem, and it was so simple. Crisco lube, 70grs of Goex 2Fg and the good ole Lee 505gr Minie'. I forget now if we'd run out of Minie' bullets or caps, but that ended things and I'll bet we sent over 60 of'em downrange. We never had an issue running the Minie' down the barrel, nor did we have any missfires.

He sold the rifle to a mutual freind for $500, and I asked why in the world he'd done that? He said there were 2 reasons. One was that it was just too accurate and was no challange. The other was that the USMC hadn't ever been issued 3 Band Enfields. He was a former Jarhead so I guess that figured prominently in his world :-)

My P58 P-H 2 Band probably would have outshot it, but it wouldn't have shot so trouble free or for so long without at least having to clean the breech area at least once or twice.

................Buckshot

[BowHunter252]

I have one of those, bought about 25 years ago. It has the "DGG" proof which I believe is Euroarms. Mine had a tight spot in the bore, the second time I got a minie stuck there I lapped it out. Shoots pretty good now.

Just checked, mine has the "DGG" proof also. I will try to shoot it sometime soon and let yall know how it does.

[gifford]

Last year I picked up a minty Hy Hunter Zouave .58 Cal Rifle at a very good price as the owner was giving it and wanted it to have a good home. The lock was originally stampted Remington 1863 with the US Eagle. The story I have heard at the Blackpowder Club is that Remington Arms took umbrage at the folks selling these "Remington" rifles so the Remington was hatched marked out. The 1863 was left alone. It shoots well with .570 patched round balls. Got quite a few accessories, caps, patches with it. The original owner cast a big box of Minie balls and only shot it a few times and then hung it up. I've introduced several folks to black powder using this rifle. All have agreed it's a nice rifle and would be quite a hunting rifle. So in summary, shoot your rifle and enjoy it. G

[Southron Sanders]

That Enfield musketoon was made by Euroarms in Brescia, Italy. I know, I used to work for Euroarms of America. The "DGG" markring is the initials of Diego G. Grassi who was the plant manager. I knew him back in the 1970's and and he was a fine man and very competent engineer.

[3Bandbob]

Sounds Like B.S. to me, Except i was there. I'm 3Bandbob.