Shooting a Revolver from a bench???

[RobS]

Ok, after reading threads about accuracy of bullets and working from a bench I have to ask what it is that people consider "shooting from a bench"?

For example:

I shoot from a bench with my forearms rested on a rolled up towel and usually standing.

How does everyone else test revolver rounds for accuracy from a bench?

ALSO A NOTE: I know there will be someone that says,......................"There is no reason to shoot from a bench, you are not going to be shooting like that in the field or in real life situations" so if you have the need..................please refrain from contributing to the thread.

[ETG]

I consider bench shooting with a revolver using a V sandbag on an adjustable tripod for the frame and sand bags to support the hand grip.

[RobS]

Well that is a bit more elaborate...............now I may not be as bad of a shot as I thought. :razz:

[Throckmorton]

to me,bench shooting is ; sitting at a bench,put my gun hand inside/on top of, my offhand,which is resting on a pad of some sort.Off hand grips the shooting hand,overlap thumbs.ie: my ususal 2 handed grip,only resting on a support.

[Echo]

+1 for Throckmorton. Bench resting is the next-best way of testing new loads, best being in a rst such as Ransom. I do it all the time.

[Old Grump]

to me,bench shooting is ; sitting at a bench,put my gun hand inside/on top of, my offhand,which is resting on a pad of some sort.Off hand grips the shooting hand,overlap thumbs.ie: my ususal 2 handed grip,only resting on a support.

My only difference is I don't grip with my non shooting hand but let it lay flat palm up, I only use it for a cushion between the butt and the sandbag. I find if I grip with it I influence the gun and it moves my group. Once sighted then I either shoot one handed or with a modified Weaver and I still don't grip the gun. Just my stroke and its going to be different from the guy next to me.

[Eagles6]

Snubbie I shoot with a 2 hand grip with the butt resting on 2 sandbags made from blue jean legs and scavenged sand resting on a former tackle box-now range box that I shot but blamed on someone else.
Works well for the semis too.

[Eagles6]

Actually , now that I think of it I do rest the butt on my upturned left hand on top of the sand bags.
Sad when the memory goes...it's only been 23 hrs since I did it.
Boolit placement is still good though.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
At a bench sitting up I try to grip the revolver as I do standing but with my wrist suported to reduce my wobbles. I grip with my left hand wrapped around my right thumbs overlapped which grips the revolver. I have small hands attached to a small 155 pound frame.
But my favorite test position is the Creedmore as suited to my body. I still shoot my best handgun groups that way.

[Hardcast416taylor]

With old towels for bench covering and padding, the Frau hasn`t missed them yet! I put my bench media filled bags down on the towels for support. I ONLY will rest the frame of the pistol in front of the trigger guard on/against the bags NEVER the ejector rod or barrel touch the bags. Been doing it this way for about 30 years.Robert

[mike in co]

ALSO A NOTE: I know there will be someone that says,......................"There is no reason to shoot from a bench, you are not going to be shooting like that in the field or in real life situations" so if you have the need..................please refrain from contributing to the thread.

PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE IDIOTS THAT CAN TYPE.

what do you want to do ? see how accurate your gun and your ammo are ?
you do this by taking as much of YOU out of the set up as possible.

you do this with a rest.

for a revolver the clue is to be as consistant with the rest as possible.

support the gun just forward of the cylinder...the lug at the front of the frame, and the base of the butt. try to be as consistant with your hold..the amount of energy you spend hoding the gun shot to shot affects group size. trigger pull...same story, cock it and pull.......do not cock with the trigger if you can help it.
with a solid set up sight pic should be very consistant.

if the ammo and gun shoot 2 in at 25yds its unlikely YOU WILL shoot 2".......standing up two handed.

it is highly unlikely you will ever shoot better that the gun and ammo can shoot, the only way to know what that is is to take as much of you out of the picture as possible...that means shooting from a rest PERIOD.

i sight in my one competition revolver standing, holding on a rest, but the gun is completely free to recoil up and away. no downward pressure when aiming, just lite support to steady the sights.

you get better at things by perfect practice, not by just doing the same wrong things over and over.

no sense trying to shoot 2" groups if the gun and ammo are only capable of 3"......

mike in co

[RobS]

PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE IDIOTS THAT CAN TYPE.

what do you want to do ? see how accurate your gun and your ammo are ?
you do this by taking as much of YOU out of the set up as possible.

you do this with a rest.

for a revolver the clue is to be as consistant with the rest as possible.

support the gun just forward of the cylinder...the lug at the front of the frame, and the base of the butt. try to be as consistant with your hold..the amount of energy you spend hoding the gun shot to shot affects group size. trigger pull...same story, cock it and pull.......do not cock with the trigger if you can help it.
with a solid set up sight pic should be very consistant.

if the ammo and gun shoot 2 in at 25yds its unlikely YOU WILL shoot 2".......standing up two handed.

it is highly unlikely you will ever shoot better that the gun and ammo can shoot, the only way to know what that is is to take as much of you out of the picture as possible...that means shooting from a rest PERIOD.

i sight in my one competition revolver standing, holding on a rest, but the gun is completely free to recoil up and away. no downward pressure when aiming, just lite support to steady the sights.

you get better at things by perfect practice, not by just doing the same wrong things over and over.

no sense trying to shoot 2" groups if the gun and ammo are only capable of 3"......

mike in co

Thanks Mike for a detailed description....................very much appreciated. And yes idiots do type BS, unfortunately, but there are also those that have good knowledge and come across wrong or are too hard headed to see a different direction at times.

It is what it is.

[felix]

See pics. ... Felix

[Blammer]

Ransom rest=bench shooting. :)

[KCSO]

If you can't afford a ransom Felix's grip with a soft rest under the frame of the gun. I use a padded v block rest. Mine is made of wood with a padding of sand bags.

[454PB]

When you get up to .454 Casull or higher recoil, that offhand thumb is at risk in the picture felix posted. The hammer can come back and punch the thumbnail.

[Larry Gibson]

When you get up to .454 Casull or higher recoil, that offhand thumb is at risk in the picture felix posted. The hammer can come back and punch the thumbnail.

Bad place for the thumb with semi auto's also, I've the scar to prove it. Better to lay the non-firing hand thumb over or alongside the firing hand thumb.

If testing loads for accuracy best to use a rest either on the forward part of the frame or the the barrel. Some say not the barrel but as long as the barrel can recoil up away from the rest I've not seen any difference.

If zeroing best to not have any part of the pistol/revolver on the rest. I like to have a soft giveable rest under the hands and a solid sandbag for the knuckles to press against. The elbows also should not be on top of the solid bench.

For both methods above with semi's, revolvers and single shots the butt of the handgun must have freedom to recoil down. Resting it on a solid sandbag or the hands on a solid sandbag will not let it recoil down as when you shoot without a rest. This becomes more important with the heavier recoil handguns and single action in particular. Resting the back of the non-shooting hand on the bench or a solid sandbag cupped with the firing hand resting in it will get your attention :-( in a hurry with hard recoiling guns, especially SA revolvers.

Larry Gibson

[geargnasher]

Felix, you're quite a shooter if you can touch off that Model 29 like that without disturbing the sight picture. I've struggled for almost a year now with a 29-3 10" bbl, something about the grip shape seems to hit a tendon wrong and I can't make the trigger break without shifting the gun. 100-yard groups got better when I used a vee-block under the ejector rod shroud and a bag in front of my knuckles, but it's difficult to two-fist a .44 Magnum and NOT bear down on that front block. Vertical strings often result for me. SAA style guns are MUCH easier for me to shoot sitting at a bench.

I don't know the BEST bench postition for a pistol, but I know for sure POI is greatly affected by anything at all under the but of the gun, as well as any downward pressure on the bbl. Like Larry said, a pistol butt needs room to travel downward.

Gear

[44man]

I put the butt on a firm bag and the end of the barrel near the muzzle on another bag. Some guns will not shoot the same place off hand so I sight in from Creedmore and that works.
Have to watch that thumb.
You do NOT want to put your palm under the grip of my revolvers either or you will be hopping around with your hand between your legs, squealing like a pig! [smilie=1:
I want zero motion of the gun as I pull the trigger.
Some guns like autos work fine with just the butt on a bag. But I never shoot under 50 yards so I need STEADY.
Creedmore is next best to sandbags. I only use one hand with the largest guns. True that some almost left altogether and I don't know how I held them! :bigsmyl2:
Even from sandbags, the gun will leave my left hand and some revolvers will leave the left hand from off hand too no matter what wood clamp is used to hold the hands together.
The .44 and .45 are real ***** cats so you should be able to hang on with both hands.
Whitworth has left so much blood on my bench that I don't go down at night because of the vampires hanging around! :drinks:
I played with a Ransom rest at the club and found I can out shoot it from bags.
Just do what feels good for you to test loads but sight in different for hunting if your gun does not print to the same place. My BFR's shoot to the same spot but my .44 SRH does not.

[excavman]

I bought a used "Pistol Perch" years ago, works great for taking the 'me' out of the equation.

Larry

[44man]

I bought a used "Pistol Perch" years ago, works great for taking the 'me' out of the equation.

Larry
I have one too but it flew over my head with every shot! :mrgreen::mrgreen:

[crabo]

I use a tall leather sandbag on my front rest and push the bottom of the barrel and trigger guard into it. I place a bunny bag under my right wrist, so the gun can recoil. My left hand is wrapped around my right hand, with both thumbs stacked and pointiing forward.

I also put a sand bag under my left wrist/hand and one under the left elbow. The right elbow is cushioned by a soft pistol case.

It works pretty good for me.

[Three44s]

I prefer the Keith backrest position to a bench type solution.

Three 44s

[Bass Ackward]

Felix, you're quite a shooter if you can touch off that Model 29 like that without disturbing the sight picture. I've struggled for almost a year now with a 29-3 10" bbl, something about the grip shape seems to hit a tendon wrong and I can't make the trigger break without shifting the gun. 100-yard groups got better when I used a vee-block under the ejector rod shroud and a bag in front of my knuckles, but it's difficult to two-fist a .44 Magnum and NOT bear down on that front block. Vertical strings often result for me. SAA style guns are MUCH easier for me to shoot sitting at a bench.

I don't know the BEST bench postition for a pistol, but I know for sure POI is greatly affected by anything at all under the but of the gun, as well as any downward pressure on the bbl. Like Larry said, a pistol butt needs room to travel downward.

Gear



Many peoples shooting problems stem from grip. I can't shoot most grips for S&Ws. Never could. Hands ache in short order if the caliber requires that I stress to control. And the gun feels .... LARGE and heavy. That .... has long since changed.

Try taking the hold of your choice and holding it with the pressure that you are going to fire and hold that tension for 2 minutes. Then relax. If you don't feel like you could go right back to another 2 minutes, then you and your grips don't fit. Grip fit improves your steadiness for off hand work because you aren't stressing the grip. Both up front at the beginning and for long strings. And at the end of the shoot, I can still balance a dime through hammer fall.

I suspect that this happens to a lot of folks that just .... don't realize it or ignore the inconvenience. But when I got into Herrett's that fit my hand ergonomically and perfectly positioned my hand correctly every time, then things changed. Got my first set in 1978. Takes grip sensitivity for POI change out of the equation. And the surprise is I actually feel less recoil than when I use rubber grips. I have two sets of Herretts that get installed for shooting. (They are about $100 a set)

If you ain't got good grip fit, then even your baggin won't be all it can be.

I bag for control, screw POI.

[44man]

On the money Bass! :cbpour:
POI is not even thought of when working loads, just so they are on the paper somewhere.
Sight in always is last once you decide what to shoot.

[felix]

The "hold" I suggested is valid for no more than medium loads, if that. I have never gotten a grip feel that I am comfortable with, and so I hate any resemblance of recoil. Steve's grips are polly best, but I have only used them on the break-open guns. Even then, the 30 Herrett loaded max was max recoil I can stand, even with the Herrett grips. ... felix

In the Herrett case, 18 grains 4227 with the 311291 hovered the one inch area at a hunnert. The gun had a 2x scope. I made 100 rounds for the guy who owned the Southwest Rifle Range in Houston in exchange for a lifetime of range fees. He really enjoyed that load because it killed his game on an annual basis. As far as I know, that was the only gun he used hunting during the time I was in Houston. ... felix

By the way, that gun had a 14 twist, and the boolit holes were round with that boolit, say 1700 fps thereabouts. ... felix

[Bass Ackward]

The "hold" I suggested is valid for no more than medium loads, if that. I have never gotten a grip feel that I am comfortable with, and so I hate any resemblance of recoil.



I ain't saying that Herrett's are the only ones out there. There may be other customer makers like Lett that does my Bisley grips. But Felix, it looks like you have medium sized hands. The smaller the hand, the more you appreciate a custom grip. Please visit their WEB site.

http://www.herrett-stocks.com/

But I feel that I owe myself the best chance to perform. And I have a deficiency of scruples so I will steal every advantage possible. And of all things I can recommend, that comfortable grip pays the most (BIGGEST) dividend. If you think $100 isn't worth it, then I have to ask how serious you are about what you do?

All I can tell you is that the older I get, the more I appreciate these grips. The biggest pay off is snap shooting because it positions the hand consistently. For off hand work (aimed) it allows for increased steadiness that is observed in group improvement. For bench work it returns the least I suppose, but it still helps some. But who in the hell shoots bench all the time with a handgun. :grin:

I can recommend the covered back straps for the Jordon's for recoil and the Combat Shooting Masters for ambi work which I describe as an ambidextrous Jordon.

[9.3X62AL]

Lots good info in this thread for me, 'cause I'm not settled on a particular method of bench-firing a revolver. Much of my past such work is done with the same grip dynamics I use standing offhand, with the wrist-ends of my forearms rested atop the bags while I'm seated. Alternately, I go Elmer Keith-style as above.

[Bass Ackward]

Lots good info in this thread for me, 'cause I'm not settled on a particular method of bench-firing a revolver. Much of my past such work is done with the same grip dynamics I use standing offhand, with the wrist-ends of my forearms rested atop the bags while I'm seated. Alternately, I go Elmer Keith-style as above.


Well consider the gun too. If your alignment isn't good from left to right, you may find a different technique better. Take a pistol perch that has no side support to allow uncontrolled movement under recoil.

No one way. Sometimes I have a bag in the front, one under the butt, a rag under my elbo, and another heavy bag on my fore arm to steady and or cancel recoil. And that's for a 22LR. :grin:

Can't win fair .... cheat.

[archmaker]

I use the creedmore when I can, but most gun ranges won't allow it. :(

I believe that you have to shoot from the bench when testing a load. Standing may be the way I shoot, but the groups you produce are product of how good you are standing, not a group of how good the gun shoots. You can't diagnose your own personal shooting problems until you know how good your gun shoots. If bench testing indicates a 3" group at 50yds and you are shooting a 9" group at 50 standing, you need to work on fundementals.

Bag under the butt, wrist supported, front of barrel supported right in front of the frame with my blast shield drapped over the front rest. Slow and easy with rest as needed, last week shot my 45 1911 for accuracy, 24 rounds took me over 20 minutes to shoot, and I hurried some of them. I typically sit for about 3 minutes after I set up the target to allow myself time to get used to the noise and focus on what I am going to do.

[Rocky Raab]

A few observations from my own 50+ years of test shooting ...

The best place to rest most handguns is under the frame immediately in front of the trigger guard. That point is closest to the center of rotation, and therefore has least effect. Read details below.

If the butt touches anything, or rests on anything, accuracy will be affected adversely.

The gun WILL shoot to a different impact point off a rest. You can use a rest to judge accuracy, but you have to sight in holding it as you will when afield.

Here are the dynamics involved: The fall of the hammer gives the muzzle a slight down-push (and so does the trigger hitting its overtravel stop). If the barrel is resting on something, it will rebound upwards as ignition is taking place. The barrel will always therefore be pointing higher than it would be if not rested.

The instant the bullet begins moving, the gun reacts by moving upwards as well. When the bullet hits rifling, the gun will respond by torquing opposite the twist direction. That is usually counter-clockwise as seen by the shooter. So the gun moves up and left - and this is more pronounced for right-handed shooters because the wrist bends better that way.

The butt slams downward under recoil, but will bounce if it is resting on something. Depending on your grip, that bounce can either add to the upward muzzle flip, or counter it. Either way, the vertical component of recoil is changed.

All things considered, the gun will shoot smaller groups if rested just ahead of the trigger guard on a slightly cushioned rest, with the butt not touching anything. Resting the forearms or wrist(s) will not change anything. The gun will not shoot to the same point of aim when rested as when shot unrested - so do your final sight in unrested, even if groups are larger that way. I do final sight-in holding the gun with both hands and my elbows resting on pads, but the gun otherwise unsupported.

[MT Gianni]

I use a MTM caseguard adjustable rest. It was under $15 10 years ago. I rest the front of the frame where the bbl screws in on the rest and the butt on my hand. I shoot for group to test loads. Practice is a field rest of resting the arms against a tree or post in a two-handed grip. This can be with the arms on top of or with a slight push on the side of a wall or post.

[357tex]

I used to stand and shoot with both hands like Felix shows,over the hood of a tractor,Now arithritis has me most of the time setting behind the wheel of my golf cart,using the steering wheel as a rest gripping as Felix showed.Works for me.