Worn out dies?

[1Shirt]

Just curious! Has anybody worn out a reloading die (sizing die that is)? :coffee: I have 40 year old dies that were used when I got them, that are still going strong. Not carbide by the way. Anyhow, just wondering about the life span.
1Shirt:coffee:

[Guesser]

I think neglect, failing to clean and lube will do in a die faster than age. I have looked at used dies and found scratches inside from dirty cases being lubed and then sized. I always looked for used dies first before buying new, but close inspection is warranted.

[KCSO]

I have seen dies ruined by improper use but I have never seen worn out dies.

[MtGun44]

Scratching with dirty brass can mess them up pretty bad, but I don't think they
will wear out very fast.

Bill

[mooman76]

Not much really to ware out unless you mistreat it.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I think neglect, failing to clean and lube will do in a die faster than age. I have looked at used dies and found scratches inside from dirty cases being lubed and then sized. I always looked for used dies first before buying new, but close inspection is warranted.

I talked to a tech at RCBS once about scratched dies. He said the die is not scratched. It is brass that has built up from being scratched (sort of like leading in a barrel) from lack of cleaning cases, or getting dirt on hands while handling cases during sizing. The dirts causes the gauling, and it continues to get worse as more cases are pushed through. It is especially noticable on nickel cases, because the nickel plate is harder and thinner.

He said you can send dies back to them and they would polish it out for you for a small fee, or you can do it yourself with 4/0 steel wool or some such as fine. He said the surface of the die is much harder than the brass and there was a very, very small chance of changing die tolerances using that process.

I've done it, and he was right. Saved many a 38 caliber sizer picked up at gun shows that way.

You won't live long enough to see any worn out from proper use, nor will your grand childrens children, IMHO.

[nicholst55]

I have never personally worn one out, but I do know a guy who has worn out a sizing die. He was recently wondering why he was having problems with ammo not wanting to chamber; he tried cleaning and readjusting the sizing die, to no avail. When he tried a borrowed sizing die, the problem went away. RCBS offered to replace the die for free, but he bought a new set.

BTW, this was a .223 sizing die, and the fellow in question does a LOT of prairie dog shooting. He usually has 2-3 .223 bolt guns that he's feeding, in addition to some other varmint rifles. He shoots more during the summer than I do over an entire year.

This is the reason that Dillon and other companies offer carbide rifle sizing dies for commercial reloaders - because dies do wear out.

I'm seriously considering having my .223 and .308 sizing dies titanium nitride plated by CH-4D. It's 1/3 (or less) the cost of carbide, and will wear nearly as long.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Exceptions noted- commerical loaders, and those with higher-than-average annual round count loaders. :smile:

[AZ-Stew]

Many years ago I bought a used set of Pacific .44 Mag. dies from a local gun shop. I was pretty green in the handloading business then and couldn't figure out why I had to PUSH my handloads into the chambers of my M-29. When I offered one to a friend who had a Contender and he couldn't get it in at all, I broke down and bought a new Lyman carbide set. That was 35+ years ago and I'm still using the same dies. Don't have a clue as to how someone wore .010 - .020 out of the inside of a hardened steel die between 1956 and 1974. I've looked for that die set lately, but can't find it (4 moves later), and I don't think I threw them out (not my nature), or I'd send them to Hornady and get a replacement set. There must have been something else going on.

Regards,

Stew

[HeavyMetal]

Never wore out a case sizing die but I have had them get to the point they scratched up case's pretty bad.

This would have been 1974 and instead of polishing the die out I sprung for a new RCBS carbide 45 set which I am still using today!

I also got my first case tumbler, a Lyman 600, which I used heavily for years. It's in the back yard right now motor runs fine but the bowl cracked and broke in half!

Clean shiny case's seem to help me size my brass and sure helped my dies out as well!

What I have "worn out" is boolit sizing dies! Used a lot of clip on wheel weight during my IPSC days and actually had an issue with feeding that Came from over sized boolits. I think the high Antimony content was what did the sizing die in!

My original Bar Sto would not chamber a round with a .453 boolit in it!

Went through two Lyman .451 sizing dies between 1974 and 1985 Bought my first Star in 1986 and have been real happy since, not shooting as much either!!

[StarMetal]

A friend of mine and I wore out a set of 223 dies for loading 55 grain Nam issue FMJ's which were cheap in the day we were buying them...for my friend to sell the ammo at gun shows. We loaded in 5000 batches. My friend scrupulously polished the brass so there was zero dirt involved. We literally wore the sizer dies out. At that time I spoke to industry loaders and they said their dies were carbide and they still lubed the cases. The reason I asked them is that my friend and I wanted to buy a carbide 223 die, but they were too expensive for our blood.

I also wore out parts of our progressive press. In personal use I have worn out an RCBS JR, old model with they were cast. I'm pretty picky about cleaning the ram often and lubricating it. RCBS wanted it back to examine it and they replaced it free along with phone call of how interesting and worn out my press ram and bore was.

[Bret4207]

As a general rule very few tools, and dies are just tools, "wear out" from use. From abuse, neglect, guys like me who tend to turn to a bigger hammer first rather than thinking- yes. But not from normal wear. That goes for all the complaints about Lee moulds too. I fail to see any reason a mould shouldn't last indefinitely. Its up to us to figure out how NOT to damage it.

[45 2.1]

As a general rule very few tools, and dies are just tools, "wear out" from use. From abuse, neglect, guys like me who tend to turn to a bigger hammer first rather than thinking- yes. But not from normal wear. That goes for all the complaints about Lee moulds too. I fail to see any reason a mould shouldn't last indefinitely. Its up to us to figure out how NOT to damage it.

Dies wear out, even carbide pistol dies, like RCBS. It takes a lot more rounds than you guys have shot, but they do wear out. Ask some ammo manufacturers if you don't believe me, and i've wore out one steel sizer and one carbide one to out of spec conditions myself.

[StarMetal]

What some of you fell to realize is even if the brass and die are clean, and even that you use lube, their is still friction and it is the friction (in addition to the expansion of the die body) plus the little heat generated that wear a die out.

[Char-Gar]

About 45 years ago, my shooting buddy and I wore out a Lyman 25-20 Fl sizing die. It wore to the point, it would no longer size the necks enough to hold the bullets. It took about 15,000 rounds and I figured the die was pretty soft to start with.

[KCSO]

Well I don't use them anymore but I have an old set of Lyman 38 dies that have sized over 30,000 rounds of ammo and they are still in working condition. BUT, I never sized plated brass! I can't see a hardened steel die wearing dowm much from friction with a lubed brass case. But if you load dirty brass then you are lapping the die every stroke. Here is the difference, I polish all my brass before sizing and I don't size plated brass. I also clean my press of dust and residue and oil the ram, I expect to pass them on to my grandkids.

[Bret4207]

Dies wear out, even carbide pistol dies, like RCBS. It takes a lot more rounds than you guys have shot, but they do wear out. Ask some ammo manufacturers if you don't believe me, and i've wore out one steel sizer and one carbide one to out of spec conditions myself.

I did qualify that with "as a general rule". Most people will never load enough to wear a die if they keep things clean. But, I've worn 2 dies "out" by loading several thousand, maybe 3-3500 rounds and not having real clean brass. It was dirty and my fault. Anything can happen, but very few wear out from correct use.

[pmeisel]

Anyone who has worn a die out was sure lucky to do that much shooting!

[Charlie Sometimes]

I think, from reviewing all of the posts made above, that if a die has been worn out, it must be from multiple factors. Excessive use, less than optimum quality control in production, and some abuse.
The dies that they sell us, in general, aren't meant to go the "commerical production" distance, so I guess loading frequently, in high-volume quantities is excessive use to very near abuse. Depending on how you look at it.
The market that die manufacturers cater to probably don't load and shoot as much as most of us here do, and some of us even more than most of us. So it would be difficult for the "average" reloader to find that his or her set of dies are less than optimal.
I do what KSCO does- clean everything before I load.

[StarMetal]

I think certain calibers don't have as much friction to size. For exampel sizing 38 specials are easier then say the 30-06 for a few reasons. One, the 38 case walls are thinner and easier to size. The 06 has to operate at a much higher pressure then a 38 Special and thus has thicker walls and more area to resize. Bottlenecks may present another area that has more friction.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I think certain calibers don't have as much friction to size. For exampel sizing 38 specials are easier then say the 30-06 for a few reasons. One, the 38 case walls are thinner and easier to size. The 06 has to operate at a much higher pressure then a 38 Special and thus has thicker walls and more area to resize. Bottlenecks may present another area that has more friction.

A factor in excessive use? The heavier cases must provide additional resistance to sizing and add to that factor. Same as a plated case would- a harder surface causing more wear.

[stubshaft]

Back in the day when I shot PPC I actually managed to wear out a C-H carbide sizer die. I got to the point that you could see the brass was oval in cross section. My SAECO 4 cavity mould still works great though!

[Bass Ackward]

The question is not how many have you worn out?

The question is how many you are in denial about? Playing Star Trek and going where no man has gone before.

Or are you convincing yourself that you did all that work to improve chamber fit? :grin:

Or is it the dreaded I am too lazy to look / check? Here is where I fall short.

[longhorn]

I wore a carbide .45LC die slightly egg shaped by using a shell holder that was evidently out of spec. Figured it out after about 15 years of heavy use, when trying to jam my reloads into a Casull chamber. Dirty brass may have been a factor, too......

[Charlie Sometimes]

See what I mean?
I mentioned above that it would be difficult for the "average" reloader to find that his or her set of dies are less than optimal.
It took longhorn 15 YEARS to discover what was potentially the problem in one he used extensively.

Not saying that he is particularly average or anything, but if a handloader isn't totally aware of their "precision" level, then I doubt anyone would catch problems with "normal" use.