Neck Tension Mike Barrett

[joeb33050]

Mike Barrett in MN is a gun maker and bullet caster and experimenter extrodinaire. He has built a Ballard and an 1874 Sharps and an 1873 Winchester etc from scratch. He has sent me some letters and pictures and a tape of his work, and it is really impressive.
Mike is convinced that sizing too much is the cause of case failure, and oversizing is why we need to anneal case necks.
He says that no matter the bullet diameter/neck ID, after seating and removing the bullet that the neck OD will reduce only .001".
And, he has experimented and found that the force required to remove a bullet from a case is about constant, regardless of how tight the bullet is held in the case neck. So a squoze down neck on a bullet requires the same force to remove it as a slightly sized = .001" smaller neck on the same bullet.
Mike says that neck tension doesn't matter, that the case expands before the bullet leaves, and the bullet and accuracy aren't affected by neck tension.
His experimentation supports this, as I see it.

If there's somebody out there near Minneapolis Mn who could write about his work, Mike would be happy to show it and talk to you. We really need to document the work that this man has done. Any takers?
joe b.

[Buckshot]

.............I wonder why then in pistols the slower powders like H110 and 296 won't ignite well with a casual neck tension? Dean Grennel had some 44 mags loaded with H110 and when he fired them most were squibs, failure to fire, or lunched the slug out into the dirt 15' away?

In that case he found that he really had NO casemouth grip, but he'd applied a roll crimp that was in his words, "As tight as a rabid weasel".

.................Buckshot

[mike in co]

joeb is talking rifles, buckshots talking pistols.....two different things
lets not mix apples and oranges.
joeb should have clarified his statement as to rifles...but miscommunication happens all the time.

having said all that, if you made this statement on the benchrest.com forum....they would drum you off the board.

neck tension and seating depth are first two things played with once a powder range is discovered.

[felix]

neck tension and seating depth are first two things played with once a powder range is discovered. ... Mike

Yes, we need more primer brands to try so we could vary the ignition characteristic as well with them. Only one brand is consistent enough for condom BR work (on average). ... felix

[45 2.1]

Mike says that neck tension doesn't matter, that the case expands before the bullet leaves, and the bullet and accuracy aren't affected by neck tension.joe b.

Theres more to it than that. Consider the anneal or lack of anneal in the case neck also. Very little has been written on this and it plays a Big factor on accuracy in several situations.

[Char-Gar]

I am far from an expert, but that has never stoped me before, so why should that be a barrier now. Here is what I know/think/feel on the subject at hand.

1. I don't think there is any real argument that repeated sizing and expanding (firing) of the cases will work harden and enbrittle the brass causing failure. Annealing is the remedy for this.

2. Neck tension/bullet pull will have some effect on the burning rate of the powder, just like changing bullet weight. So a change in neck tension might move the sweet spot around a mite, but it will still be there and can be found by small adjustment is in the powder charge.

3. I hold the theory that as long as the neck tension is the same from round to round, it is not a significant factor.

Now if you are using brass with various degrees of hardness and therefore various degrees of neck tension that might change the shot to shot pressure and show up on the target.

Bottom line is neck tension need to be uniform for best accuracy, but it doesn't matter squat that it is...within reason of course.

[Char-Gar]

Opps... does not matter "What" is is... again we are talking rifles here.