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stang68
05-25-2010, 07:01 PM
I'm a newbie and my first 2 casting sessions went well, my boolits looked good although they may have had a frosted look. I then had a session in which my boolits looked to be pitted. I cleaned the mold well with dish soap and mineral spirits and the boolits were better but still not great. I've since had 2 sessions in which the boolts look terrible. I don't know whether they're frosted, wrinkled, not filled out, or polluted from dirty lead to tell the truth. I'm not all that great with picture taking either, hope they're good enough for y'all to determine what the problem is.

Orygun
05-25-2010, 07:03 PM
Looks like dirty alloy to me. Are you fluxing well and with what?

No_1
05-25-2010, 07:03 PM
I could not blow up the pics large enough to see. What I can see looks like dirt. Remember to flux, flux, flux because your alloy can never be too clean.

Robert

67bear
05-25-2010, 07:18 PM
Maybe try using Birchwood Caseys Gunscrubber or automotive brake cleaner to clean the mold. I have had good luck cleaning my molds with a solvent that doesn't leave any petroleum residue. And flux well as others have said.

mooman76
05-25-2010, 07:25 PM
Are you top poring or bottom? If you are ladle casting scrap all the gunk to the side and scoop out the clean lead. As you get a spoonful or so of gunk built up, scoop it out and dispose of it. It looks like just dirt to me.

stang68
05-25-2010, 07:29 PM
I'm using paraffin for flux and I did it often during the casting session. I'm using wheel weight ingots and I get a lot of brown stuff that looks like dirt that I'm been dipping out but it's also coated the sides of my pot. Would that be what it is or does lead oxide look like dirt? My bottom pour also has started leaking a lot, I have to do the screwdriver thing often. I may try a short casting session tomorrow with the lead temp higher just to see if I can get a good boolit. If I want to completely empty the pot and clean it, how would I do that?

sagacious
05-25-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm using paraffin for flux and I did it often during the casting session. I'm using wheel weight ingots and I get a lot of brown stuff that looks like dirt that I'm been dipping out but it's also coated the sides of my pot. Would that be what it is or does lead oxide look like dirt? My bottom pour also has started leaking a lot, I have to do the screwdriver thing often. I may try a short casting session tomorrow with the lead temp higher just to see if I can get a good bullet. If I want to completely empty the pot and clean it, how would I do that?

All of these things are classic signs of not fluxing. Your bullets show visble dross inclusions and oxide particles (good to include pics, as it helps in the diagnosis). If you are "fluxing" with paraffin, your fluxing process isn't doing what it needs to. Read up on fluxing: http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm

Yes, lead oxide may look like "dirt." Sounds as though you're running the pot too hot. Most newbies run too hot, not too cold, and most newbies turn to even higher heat to solve their problems. More heat is not always better! :) Too much heat is likely what's causing your high rate of oxide formation, and more heat will only make it worse. Oxides/dross will clog the spout and/or cause leaking. Pour at the lowest setting that provides consistent, good fillout.

Frosty bullets are not "ugly" bullets. Frosty is OK, and according to the instructions LEE includes with their molds, frosted bullets hold Alox better, and may allow higher velocity.

Your mold is doubtless clean by now. You'll continue to have fillout problems/dross inclusions/pitted bullets/etc until you get the fluxing down, and run the pot at a lower temp. That's good news, as both those things are easily fixable. Other than that, your bullets are OK and everything else sounds/looks normal, so you should be back to perfect once these kinks are worked out.

Empty the pot by pouring the lead out through the spout, and then scrape the sides clean while still hot. Be careful. Once it's clean, start over, and flux, flux, flux!

Good luck, and keep us posted.

stang68
05-25-2010, 08:19 PM
Thanks Sagacious and all others that replied, I read the reference you mentioned about fluxing but will go back to it again. I know that the thermostat index numbers on the Lee 10# production pot mean nothing except a reference but I thought I had it low at 7.5, will go lower, can't do a lead thermometer right now. I've also from the Lee site and here and elsewhere that frosty is good, it holds more of the lube.

Bass Ackward
05-25-2010, 08:36 PM
Sometimes "we" get into fetishes that can result in them violating casts first principal.

Whether that is great looking or perfect weighing bullets. Or nice shiny brass. Even over infatuation with pretty targets can eliminate your ability to simply have fun!

Dress them suckers up and get'em ready to party. See what the target looks like before we talk too badly about them. If the target's no good, then expend them in water where you only have to get close to stimulate excitement. Water makes us all look good.

Perform better on the next batch.

stang68
05-25-2010, 09:41 PM
Just like when we did annual familiarization with the 1911 while at sea, I managed to hit the water every time!

HangFireW8
05-25-2010, 09:48 PM
I'm using paraffin for flux and I did it often during the casting session. I'm using wheel weight ingots and I get a lot of brown stuff that looks like dirt that I'm been dipping out but it's also coated the sides of my pot.

When you say you are using wheel weights... do you start with them in your casting pot, flux, and then cast? If so, that is the problem. You'll never get your casting pot clean enough in the same session until you empty it and scrape it out.

Make some ingots in one session, hopefully in a separate pot, flux and scrape and when you pour them you may still see some dirt still on top of each ingot. Scrape that off after it cools.

Then when you melt the ingots in your cleaned-out casting pot, there won't be much dirt.

-HF

stang68
05-25-2010, 09:58 PM
I guess I wasn't clear on that, I bought 50 # of wheel weight ingots from a local guy for $50.

stang68
05-25-2010, 10:20 PM
Bass Akwards:

You're right, after a couple of beers, the more I look at them, the purtier they are, kind of like at closin' time.

littlejack
05-25-2010, 10:26 PM
s68:
The person you got the alloy from may not have cleaned the melt very good when making ingots. There is a lot of "HEAVY" sediment in dirty metal, i.e. wheel weights, old used flashing,
etc. You may want to melt your metal in something other than your bottom pour, to flux and mix to get all the impurities out that you can. Then you can restart your bullet cast session.
Also, don't forget to clean out your bottom pour pot.
I stopped using a bottom pour electric Lyman a couple years ago because of the inclusions "slag particales" in the bullets. I now cast with a Colman stove, pot and ladle. That has solved my problem completely.
Jack

stang68
05-25-2010, 10:31 PM
Thanks Jack, I've been thinking along those lines.

EDK
05-25-2010, 10:46 PM
A lot of good suggestions on fluxing in the above posts. I've tried everything from motor oil to bullet lube to commercial fluxes....the best commercial flux was from GAR in New Jersey...long out of business.

What I like now is to get the melt hot and sprinkle sawdust on top, stir vigorously and then let it solidify with a minimal loss of boolit metal. Skim it off and then a small piece of beeswax to re-flux as needed.

A smelting pot for initial cleaning...or re-cleaning...is a good idea. My brother smelts wheel weights (and does a good job!) and trades me ingots for his share of the motel bill at the Quigley Shoot in Forsyth Montana.

It's a d*** poor day I don't learn something new here....and I've been casting for 40+ years.

:cbpour: :Fire::redneck:

MtGun44
05-26-2010, 12:14 AM
those are not bullets, they are BOOLITS. Bullet have these funny copper wrappers on them.

Terminology is important to get right. ;-)

Bill

shotman
05-26-2010, 01:23 AM
couple of things
you said new to casting and wheel weights
the frosting is good means melt is hot
second pc looks like it was too cold
one zinc WW in a 10lb will do that, if the temp is too low , its like adding sand to the melt
also get you some Kroil see sticky
as for cleaning pot sand blast is best you can get a small one from harbor freight cheap
play sand and a gas station if you dont have a compressor

Bret4207
05-26-2010, 07:20 AM
Flux, make darn sure your mould is clean and keep the MOULD hot, don't worry so much about pot temp. I believe I see rounded edges and incomplete fillout- signs of a cool mould. Pot heat-mould heat. Two very different things. Stop looking at the boolits and cast till the sprues need an abnormal amount of time to cool. Then slow down and aim for the spot where the best looking boolits come. I believe those are from a Lee mould, probably a 6 cav? THey need to be kept hot.

FYI- Sometimes it takes a couple, 3 casting sessions to get the crud out of the mould.

Bass Ackward
05-26-2010, 07:58 AM
Bass Akwards:

You're right, after a couple of beers, the more I look at them, the purtier they are, kind of like at closin' time.


Sure!!! And you are going to make other mistakes with lube or seating those or running them to too high a pressure that needing perfect bullets right off is a waste. Use the really bad ones for foulers on your first few cylinders till you get the gun good and sloppy dirty.

Besides, if you are not satisfied with the results, you will pay more attention next time.

Smooth seas do not a good mariner make. (Just had to throw that in. :grin:)

44man
05-26-2010, 08:28 AM
Seems like any heavy dirt in lead always migrates to the bottom spout. [smilie=b:
It is hard to flux it out and get it to float so it can be skimmed. My ingots are clean yet every time I empty the pot to change alloy, there will be a pile of dust in the bottom.
This junk keeps changing lead flow from the spout and it is not long before it either slows flow or squirts lead in some funny direction into the mold.
The Lee TL boolits are sensitive to hot spots depending on where the lead first touches the inside of the mold. Those spots do not fill out.
Of course, some of that dirt always gets into the flow too.
If you empty a gas tank from the bottom, water and dirt come out first but the pickup for the engine is above the sump.
That is why I only use a ladle. :kidding:
I think the hardest way for a beginner to learn to cast is from a bottom pour. Once frustration kicks in, the ladle turns into a miracle! ;-)

stang68
05-26-2010, 04:48 PM
Check it out!! Now these are downright "purty" boolits and it isn't even cocktail hour yet. It wasn't easy getting there but no one said it would be easy but well worth the effort. First of all I lowered the rheostat on my pot and fluxed, fluxed and scooped dross often but no luck. I noticed that one side of the boolits was nice and smooth, the other side messed up so I lee-mented the mold with newly cast boolits and toothpaste, cleaned it up and re-smoked the mold. Big mistake (smoking), the boolits were better but very undersized so I cleaned the mold up again. The boolits were better looking than yesterday and the right size but still not what I wanted. I then decided to try the ladle instead of the spout as someone suggested and I got two great looking boolits, however the ladle isn't something I can do well because of limited use of my right hand and arm due to spinal cord damage. So figuring that the ladle worked well because I was pouring the lead all over the place instead of straight into the cavity, I tried the bottom pour again, this time tilting the mold so that the stream splashed against the side instead of going straight into the cavity and sure enough, I got two smooth, shiny boolits. I now recall reading either on this forum or instructions from Lee saying to tilt the mold rather than pouring directly into the cavity. I never would have thought that the solution to my "ugly" boolits would be so simple. Thanks everyone.

Bill*
05-26-2010, 05:32 PM
And your leaky pot might drip less with your cleaner alloy!

stang68
05-26-2010, 05:42 PM
Yes, that I've noticed, that it drips nowhere near as much. All of the recommendations by the knowledgeable people on this forum helped me to get where I am now, turning down the rheostat, fluxing scraping and removing dross more often, etc. BTW, I looked at the instruction from Lee that came with the pot and sure enough, it recommends tilting the mold instead of pouring straight into the cavity. Unfortunately casting season will be over very soon where I live in Arizona, other years it would have been well into the 100's by now, 100+ has been delayed this year. Or I could melt lead without having to plug in the pot and save electricity.

littlejack
05-27-2010, 11:46 AM
Nice bollits.
All of my moulds have their own charactoristics. One will like the melt poured in one way and another a different way. I have double cavities that are so testy that they will throw a big "caniption" fit if one cavity is poured before the other. They are soooo spoiled, but I still love um.
Jack

montana_charlie
05-27-2010, 12:41 PM
I have double cavities that are so testy that they will throw a big "caniption" fit if one cavity is poured before the other.
Son,
I cain't have no idea of who fetched you up, but they shore taught you some poor English.

While it's possible to have a conniption, if someone (or something) is going to throw a fit...that will be a hissy fit.

Next week we will explore the two different meanings of larrupin'
CM

Bret4207
05-28-2010, 07:51 AM
Aw, Uncle Charlie, I gots to add a slight qualifier to that.

Girly men have hissy fits, manly men blow up, go through the roof, let off, or sometimes meltdown. But manly men rarely have hissy fits. Maybe if he's fighting with SWMBO over some domestic matter, then it could be a hissy fit if it's obvious he's gonna lose and she's right anyway, but it just ain't normal for a man to have a hissy fit. Anything rhymes with "sissy" is out, don'tcha know.

Now a conniption fit, we have them back east, 'specially in New England or with those of old Vermont/Mass. hill country ancestry. A conniption fit, or just a conniption as you said, would be the norm in a "high strung" type of person, one that tends to go off over nothing, male or female. Conniptions can sometimes be thrown with good cause, say an unmarried daughter coming home with child, and often involve copious use of foul language, physical contact with breakable items used as proxies for laying hands on the miscreant or otherwise putting a larrupin' on the cause of the conniption.

I'd like to follow your dissertation on larrupin' with a brief treatise on "in a lather" and also "layin' on a good whuppin "

Bret4207
05-28-2010, 07:55 AM
Check it out!! Now these are downright "purty" boolits and it isn't even cocktail hour yet. It wasn't easy getting there but no one said it would be easy but well worth the effort. First of all I lowered the rheostat on my pot and fluxed, fluxed and scooped dross often but no luck. I noticed that one side of the boolits was nice and smooth, the other side messed up so I lee-mented the mold with newly cast boolits and toothpaste, cleaned it up and re-smoked the mold. Big mistake (smoking), the boolits were better but very undersized so I cleaned the mold up again. The boolits were better looking than yesterday and the right size but still not what I wanted. I then decided to try the ladle instead of the spout as someone suggested and I got two great looking boolits, however the ladle isn't something I can do well because of limited use of my right hand and arm due to spinal cord damage. So figuring that the ladle worked well because I was pouring the lead all over the place instead of straight into the cavity, I tried the bottom pour again, this time tilting the mold so that the stream splashed against the side instead of going straight into the cavity and sure enough, I got two smooth, shiny boolits. I now recall reading either on this forum or instructions from Lee saying to tilt the mold rather than pouring directly into the cavity. I never would have thought that the solution to my "ugly" boolits would be so simple. Thanks everyone.

I have had numerous people tell me I was full of horse puckey when I said smoking can drop a smaller boolit.

stang68
05-28-2010, 10:08 AM
I was very surprised at how small they were, prior to that I had been dropping boolits that were out of round between .358 - .360 as I posted in another thread but after that smoking, the small measurement was .356. I must have really smoked the cavities with the butane lighter.

Bret4207
05-28-2010, 06:29 PM
My theory- When we pour lead alloy into a mould the lead doesn't actually touch the sides of the mould, not everywhere anyway. I think there's a certain amount of gas or air that get's caught between the mould and alloy no matter how good the venting is. I think, and it's just an opinion, that smoking or mould release keeps more gases in there and produces a smaller boolit.

My 2 cents and worth just what you paid for it.

DLCTEX
05-29-2010, 10:17 AM
Men can have "hissy fits" but it's always the other guy, not yourself. You know, when he throws a fit like a girl. Clean alloy, clean mould, hot mould, good boolits.

Centaur 1
05-29-2010, 06:17 PM
I'm brand new at this myself, today was my second casting session with my Lee 4-20 pot. My lead is all from the range, about 50/50 mix of cast and jacketed bullets. I did all of my smelting with an old Palmer Hot Pot that I bought in the 70's for making sinkers. I don't know if this will help anyone, but the flux that I'm using is a 50 count bag of tea light candles from Walmart. They're really weird because instead of being solid wax, they seem to be tiny wax spheres that are pressed into shape. If you were to light the candle it would melt into solid wax, but I pull the wick out and break it into small pieces that are about the size of a pea. I take the pieces of wax and crumble them between my fingers into my pot then stir them in. I don't know what type of wax is in these candles but they never burst into flames like some other waxes that I've tried. I tried what Bret4207 said about turning up the heat until the sprues stayed liquid for about 8 or 9 seconds, then I backed the heat down until they hardened in 2 to 3 seconds. Without a lead thermometer this seemed to work pretty good. I kept the process going with two molds, a tl 158 grain swc for my .38 and a 125 grain rn for the 9mm. Like I said, I'm new at this and those tumble lube boolits are harder to make look pretty, and the diameter changes when the mold gets hotter. I was really worried about how well they would work, but they did great in my S&W model 19 revolver. I used the recipe for mixing liquid Alox with jpw and mineral spirits for the tumble lube and it worked much better than straight Alox. I shot some darn ugly boolits and I had no lead in the barrel after shooting about 300 rounds.

sagacious
05-29-2010, 06:36 PM
I take the pieces of wax and crumble them between my fingers into my pot then stir them in. I don't know what type of wax is in these candles but they never burst into flames like some other waxes that I've tried.
Centaur,

The wax in your pressed tealight candles from Walmart is almost without doubt paraffin.

The flames actually assist in the fluxing process, so one should light the wax smoke with a match during fluxing. Lighting the smoke creates a reducing atmosphere at the surface of the lead, and that is beneficial. I learned this a long time ago, but it's interesting to see that the fluxing instructions given by Lyman, LEE, and others, recommend that the smoke be lit during fluxing. Just a heads's-up. :)

Congrats on your casting/loading success!

Centaur 1
05-29-2010, 06:54 PM
I didn't know that about the flames being good. I've used other candle wax that just burst into flames as soon as it hits the lead and I just assumed that not having that flareup was better. thanks for the heads up, I'll try lighting it next time.