Water quench question

[509thsfs]

Been thinking of trying a few quenched boolits in my .40 but had a question. Does running them through the sizer "work soften" them at all? Was kind of curious about that.

[JIMinPHX]

I am told that it does, but I haven't tested that for myself.

[1Shirt]

I size and lube within a few hours of casting. I usually hardness test some before sizing, and then a couple of them sized after a week or so. Have always found them to be harder. However, I do not size down a great deal, seldom more than a thousands, for what ever that is worth.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[largom]

I for one do not think that a single pass thru a sizer is going to soften a boolit unless you are "swageing" several thousands. I have hardness tested a boolit on it's nose and then put it in my mill and cut a flat on it's side and then retested and got the same reading. A piece of flat metal does not readily soften if you bend it ONCE, but will if you bend it several times in the same place. Just my opinion, no facts to back it up.

Larry

[sqlbullet]

Also, a hardness tester works the metal orders of magnitude deeper than you will when sizing it. The sizing process will affect .0015" (.003" reduction /2 sides of the bullet) of the material.

Functionally, sizing has no impact on hardness.

You say trying them in your .40. I assume this to mean the 40 S&W cartridge. Unless you have a specific purpose for doing so that you know extra hardness will address, I would advise against this. Your loads will need to be at or very near max to generate enough pressure to obturate a hard bullet. I get leading in my 10mm with hardened bullets and practice loads. No issues with air-cooled bullets, or with either type at full power. I only harden my 200 'bear repellant' slugs.

[Orygun]

I also try to size & lube within a few hours. Anything over 24 hours and they are harder to run through the sizer.

[oso]

I size as soon as the quenched boolits are dry and use a large enough sizer that I'm really just lubing.

[RICKLANDES]

Been thinking of trying a few quenched boolits in my .40 but had a question. Does running them through the sizer "work soften" them at all? Was kind of curious about that.

Your efforts at water hardening my not be worth the effort if you are not using the correct alloy's. Some will temporary harden and basically return to the basic material, some will keep much harder.

IF you are going to water harden you will get more consistent results heating the bullets to about 460 degrees for an hour and then dumping the works into water for quench. To drop from the mold into the water does quench the boolit, but at a varying level of consistency as the heated boolit to water temp will vary.

I use a straight ww mix for hardened tempered bullets. The antimony is the key to getting a high BH as I understand it.

I am new to this game also. However a consistent temp with a consitent material dropped into a water bath has to give a consistent product using a given batch of materials.

I drew much of the info I have shared above from this reference http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm
I hope you will find it of use.

[509thsfs]

Actually have been reading lasc for the last couple of years as a reference as well as numerous books I've accumulated over the years. Never saw any reference to the question. Never bothered to try it before and figured I'd give it a try for something different. Been just casting and using straight WW's for the last 15 or so years in my .38/.357, 41 mag (both normally GC'd). 45, 30-06 and 303 as well. The last couple years I picked up a .40 and 9mm and thought they might be candidates for some "experimentation" with water quenching. I get very little leading now but still get a little build up. Curious to see if quenching would minimize even that so thought next casting session I'd drop a few in water and see. I was just thinking and wondering if sizing would, as I say, "work soften" them a bit and defeat the purpose. Never seen any reference to it anywhere. Figured someone may have come across some info if it did.

[RICKLANDES]

Actually have been reading lasc for the last couple of years as a reference as well as numerous books I've accumulated over the years. Never saw any reference to the question. Never bothered to try it before and figured I'd give it a try for something different. Been just casting and using straight WW's for the last 15 or so years in my .38/.357, 41 mag (both normally GC'd). 45, 30-06 and 303 as well. The last couple years I picked up a .40 and 9mm and thought they might be candidates for some "experimentation" with water quenching. I get very little leading now but still get a little build up. Curious to see if quenching would minimize even that so thought next casting session I'd drop a few in water and see. I was just thinking and wondering if sizing would, as I say, "work soften" them a bit and defeat the purpose. Never seen any reference to it anywhere. Figured someone may have come across some info if it did.

I seem to remember reading where prior to water hardening bullets were to be sized as they would be too hard after heating and dunking.

I thought there is no way a lead mix is going to be harder than a steel sizing die so I just treated the bullets and sized as normal. I could see nothing that indicated these were softened by the sizing. I hope that is a more direct answer to your question. I wish I could remember the source of that info. The way the old brain seems to work lately I was probably in a "other world than these, gunslinger"
(to quote Jake speaking to Roland, the gunslinger from the S. King Dark Tower series)

[Shuz]

Been thinking of trying a few quenched boolits in my .40 but had a question. Does running them through the sizer "work soften" them at all? Was kind of curious about that.

Years ago I read an article written by a metalurgist (Dennis Marshall?)who claimed that sizing a hardened boolit will work soften ONLY the sides that are touched by the die. He suggested that you size first, then heat treat and lube in a die that is .001 larger than the original sizing die. Now if you are hardening to achieve better penetration, sizing before or after hardening doesn't matter.

[MT Gianni]

It takes a water dropped bullet several hours to harden. The time is around 48 hours AIRC. You can drop and size the same day or the next day with little or no hardness loss. WW will return to their original hardness whether H2O dropped or oven quenched. The difference is whether it takes 4-5 years or 8-9 years.

[sqlbullet]

I still come back to the issue of how minimal the working of the metal is when sizing.

You bullet gets worked 4X as much as it engages the rifling.

[felix]

Softening and hardening both take TIME for the effect. ... felix

Like Ray says/implies (Shuz), it is best to size a HARD boolit so it won't bend, and then re-heat-treat via oven. ... felix

[StarMetal]

I'm thinking along the same lines as Felix. Once I've shot them there trip down the bore and to the target is so short a time that they don't have time to change.