loading the 6.5 cruise missile "as cast"

[saskgunowner101]

Hey guys, I have one of those 6.5mm cruise missile molds on the way and am wondering if anyone shoots them as cast without sizing. My rifle is an old Carl Gustaf M-96. Any thoughts appreciated.

[6.5 mike]

HI & welcome, if they fit your barrel as cast give them a try. My mold drops at 0.268 on the bands so I use a 0.268 push through to seat the gas checks, or size down after paper patching. YMMV

[JeffinNZ]

Mine drops at .271 which is even too big to shoot as cast in my Carcano.

[dromia]

The only way you'll know whethere to size or not for your rifle is to take a throat/lead/bore cast/slug, see how the boolit fits inrelation to that and then shoot it.

[StarMetal]

I'm fortunate to have some of the original Cruise Missiles. These aren't as fat as the current Lee mold drops and I have them sized at .268 which fit my Swede just right. I posted this in my other thread, but maybe you can find it helpful.

The load is 34 grains of N160 powder using the shotshell buffer technique also described in that same thread. Brass is WCC 53, Wolf Large Rifle primers.

This is a good honest 1 inch group and I think it's perfectly fine for deer hunting. The velocity is 2239 fps. Notice on the target how just a change of powder makes a big difference. The 4350 powder, which shoots fantastic with the Kurtz group buy, flung the Cruise Missiles all around:

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/CMN160.jpg

[Larry Gibson]

I cast some CMs from a recent mould and the nose won't enter the bore of any of my four 6.5 Swedes. The nose will have to be sized down, otherwise the bullet is seated way to deep into the case.

Larry Gibson

[6.5 mike]

Not to hi-jack the thread, but what are the specs on the original cruise missle? Mine drops at 0.261/ 0.268, is this close?

[303Guy]

Is that cruise missile designed for the original long throated Swede?

[StarMetal]

Yes and yes to the two last posters. 6.5 mike your's is casting pretty close. The alloy blend makes a difference too.

303 guy I believe it was oldfeller and 45 2.1 that collected lot's of chamber casts and came up with the Cruise Missile and the two Kurtz group buys. The Cruise Missile fits my chamber exactly like they intended and that is the base of the bullet doesn't load past the base of the neck, yet it's nose kisses the throat/forcing cone.

[Larry Gibson]

The one's I cast from the newer mould drop .263/.272.

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

I'm fortunate to have some of the original Cruise Missiles. These aren't as fat as the current Lee mold drops and I have them sized at .268 which fit my Swede just right.

Those were supplied by me and they were cast from one of the original single cavity molds from the first group buy of the boolit.


I believe it was Oldfeller and 45 2.1 that collected lot's of chamber casts and came up with the Cruise Missile and the two Kurtz group buys. The Cruise Missile fits my chamber exactly like they intended and that is the base of the bullet doesn't load past the base of the neck, yet it's nose kisses the throat/forcing cone.

If I remember right, over a dozen throat slugs were collected by Oldfeller and myself which I used to get the boolit correctly fitted. That group buy went well and the molds from it were on spec and fit very well in all the rifles they were tried in (several dozen now as I try the fit in everybodys rifle I can). Unfortunately, most of the subsequent orders put in by Midsouth had varying results and a wide range of nose and band diameters which were completely out of spec. BRP has the drawing for the correct original specs now. Enough of you asking him would probably get a cherry cut and molds available..................

[saskgunowner101]

I picked the mold up from the post office and cast a few up. I think they might be a touch on the large side to run as cast though. From the top down my bullets came out at .260 above the first drive band, .266 on the first band, and the high side of .269 on all other driving bands below (hope this is the right term). All lube grooves are at .245.

How far out are these supposed to be seated? A buddy advised if I could seat one in a fired case and it would chamber, I'd be good to go and if not it might pinch the bullet. Problem is all my brass is sized.......

[StarMetal]

sask,

Your mold doesn't sound as fat as some of the latest ones. It just may work for you. You seat the bullet so the nose is a snug fit in the throat/cone. If everything is correct your bullet base shouldn't go past the neck base.

If you decide to go the shot buffer route and use that N160 load I just posted please back off a grain or two because I developed that load in cooler weather and it was a tad on the hot side the other day I reshot it. It still maintained that 1 inch grouping. I didn't chronograph it yesterday, but I'm almost certain it's running a little faster then what I posted.

[saskgunowner101]

I made up a dummy cartridge and the best I can do is 2.995 c.o.l. without the bullet staying in the throat when I pull the bolt back. Loaded to c.o.l. of 3.106 is about where I need to be to have the base of the bullet to the bottom of the neck. Maybe I do need to size this one.

[StarMetal]

sask,

Do this, you can have the gas check below the base of the neck, but I don't like going any further then the thickness of the check. Make yourself another dummy round and tell me if that does it for you.


Sizing the front part of bullet to let it fit generally isn't satisfactory.

[6.5 mike]

Starmetal, thanks for the info.

[saskgunowner101]

StarMetal:

I don't have a stash of gas checks for the 6.5 yet, I was just going to throw a few down the barrel to see what happens with some low powered loads. Yaw.....keyhole.....minute of pie plate is what I'm expecting with them going slow though. Just to make sure I'm understanding right, you figure it would be okay to seat them to 2.995 and give 'er a go?

[selmerfan]

Can this cruise missile be successfully loaded in a .260 Rem, or is is a 6.5x55 proposition only? My .260 is a Ruger M77 MkII

[Hang Fire]

HI & welcome, if they fit your barrel as cast give them a try. My mold drops at 0.268 on the bands so I use a 0.268 push through to seat the gas checks, or size down after paper patching. YMMV

Is that a Lee push through? I looked on the Lee site and could not find it there.

Thanks for any info, Roland

[StarMetal]

StarMetal:

I don't have a stash of gas checks for the 6.5 yet, I was just going to throw a few down the barrel to see what happens with some low powered loads. Yaw.....keyhole.....minute of pie plate is what I'm expecting with them going slow though. Just to make sure I'm understanding right, you figure it would be okay to seat them to 2.995 and give 'er a go?


Yes I do feel it would be okay to seat them to 2.995 if that's what it takes to get them to chamber in your rifle. Also they should have a very firm crimp. This keeps the bullet from being pushed back into the case if it is a little long and will more engrave it into the throat and rifling. Also it will help ignition.

Let us know how it does for you. I do hope you see some rewarding results. You also don't have to start out with my heavy load.

As an aside I have shot the lyman 150 grain loverine in my 7m-08. I know this isn't talking about the 6.5 Cruise, but due to a very short freebore I had to seat a good part of the bullet into the powder space. It not only shot really good, it didn't lead the bore either. I'm thinking that the gas acting upon the sides of the bullet while it's inside the case don't have that much of an effect especially at the lower velocities. At 1800 fps out of my SAKO 7mm-08 let's say it shot groups under 3/4 inches easy. Pushing it to much higher velocities it did not. Then that's where the Lee 135 grain 7mm shot very rewarding.

[StarMetal]

Can this cruise missile be successfully loaded in a .260 Rem, or is is a 6.5x55 proposition only? My .260 is a Ruger M77 MkII

I would have to say no because most 260's are very short freebored so the bullet would be seated very deep into the case. Most 260 twists are good for bullets over 140 grains. Now I freebored my 260 longer and was able to shoot the CM but wasn't satisfied with the results. I did a test to see where it would start to destabilize and keyhole and that was exactly right around 1350 fps in my rifle. My rifle has a Shaw barrel with a 9 twist.

[selmerfan]

I'm running a Ruger M77 MkII, I believe it is a 1-8" twist IIRC. I've been contemplating throating it out for 140 gr. Partitions and/or 160 RN bullets, if I seat them out to magazine length they are too long for the throat as it sits. Thoughts on this? My 130 gr. SAECOs are also seated quite short.

[StarMetal]

I'm running a Ruger M77 MkII, I believe it is a 1-8" twist IIRC. I've been contemplating throating it out for 140 gr. Partitions and/or 160 RN bullets, if I seat them out to magazine length they are too long for the throat as it sits. Thoughts on this? My 130 gr. SAECOs are also seated quite short.

Sounds like a plan, go for it. Remember you can't put the throat back the way it was.

[selmerfan]

Seafire over at 24hourcampfire has done this throat extension on his Ruger .260s. He said he had zero accuracy loss with the lighter bullets and a gain in velocity because of case capacity on the longer stuff. I'll get around to it sometime, no big hurry right now.

[StarMetal]

I found out the same thing with my throating job. Accuracy wasn't hurt a bit and I could load the longer heavier bullet out of the powder space and shoot them faster then with the non throated.

[geargnasher]

I cast some CMs from a recent mould and the nose won't enter the bore of any of my four 6.5 Swedes. The nose will have to be sized down, otherwise the bullet is seated way to deep into the case.

Larry Gibson

+1 on that, mine casts .2715" up to the second band, had to cut the mould down and size the first two bands to get it to fit either of my Swedes.

Gear

[StarMetal]

+1 on that, mine casts .2715" up to the second band, had to cut the mould down and size the first two bands to get it to fit either of my Swedes.

Gear

That's bad the nose is fat. If the nose at least was the right size the rest would fit better then the way it is. Take my 140 grain Saeco I shoot from my 6.5 Grendel. If that nose is the least little bit too fat it won't work in my AR 15. Fortunately 50/50 alloy let's that nose come out about .0005 over my bore size which the AR has just enough camming power to seat the round.

[Hang Fire]

Well, I just got my Lee cruise missile mold in and cast a few. Alloy was WW with small amount of linotype and water quenched is quite hard. (from years of experience, not with a BHT)

As cast the boolit is pretty fat. Dia of nose before 1st drive band: .264"--1st DB: .266"--Rest of DB at .270"

At present I do not have a lube/sizer die, but had to seat boolit well below base of neck to keep it from sticking in rifling and pulling out of case.

Before getting a lube sizer die I need to get some chamber/rifling casting metal and see exactly what I am working with.

Does the M-96/38 have the same chamber freebore as the M-96?

[StarMetal]

Before the Swedes started making a M38 from the get go, the first ones were actually M96's cut down. Dutch is the authority on this. I believe I heard the M38's may have had the chambers tightened up some, not sure. Again Dutch would know, maybe shoot him a pm.

One other reason 45 2.1 and I heavy crimp our Swede loads is so the bullet isn't so easily pushed back into the case and is forced more into the throat and rifling. You may give that a shot. Other then that you will have to two size the bullet as some others are doing.

[dualsport]

I see that N160 is very close to 4831 in the burn rate charts. Anybody working with that? Or even slower powders, like 860 for instance? Seems I remember seeing that come up here somewhere. I'll try a search.

[StarMetal]

I see that N160 is very close to 4831 in the burn rate charts. Anybody working with that? Or even slower powders, like 860 for instance? Seems I remember seeing that come up here somewhere. I'll try a search.

If you look at the top of this thread I posted a target and load using N160.

[dualsport]

SM, I saw that, I was wondering about 4831 or 860?

[StarMetal]

I haven't found a darn thing 4831 was good for in my Swede. On the other hand I've had quite a lot of useful loads with 860 and some of them have boosters. The booster ones I'd never post. I had the CM up to 2876 and stayed on the target paper. It was unintentional to achieve that velocity. I was surprised the bullet didn't do anything crazy and as mentioned stayed on the paper. By staying on the paper I'm saying it would have definitely been in a whitetail deer's vital zone at 100 yards. I slowed it down and it improved. 860 tends to foul the bore faster.

Those were my experiences and they may vary in your rifle.