45acp low smoke powder?

[JesseCJC]

Any tips for some low smoke powder for 45acp? Win 231 and WSF are great for j-words but are too smokey for my tastes, and I am sure the guy on the line next to me as well.

Is this mainly a powder or lube issue, or perhaps a bit of both?

[HeavyMetal]

It's a lube issue!

I've used 452-AA, the forerunner of WST, and 473-AA the forerunner of WSF and, as long as I did not use an alox based lube, smoke was a non issue.

I've used Lithi bee, several of the Angel lubes speed green and Carnuba Red all of these make very minimal smoke with 452AA can't say for sure about 231 I've never used it.

Will suggest trying several different lubes and make sure the boolit fits the bore and you should hit a combo that works for you.

[JDFuchs]

Im still new to casting, but i bet its the lube. I have a lyman 450 with an odd random mixtrue of lubes that works well but has about 1/4 alox in it. I have to wait a bit after my last round before i can sight in the target again when I go to the indoor range. Outdoors its never been an isue. But once had someone ask if i was useing black powder. Once thats gone im hopeing a batch of Modified Barry Darr lube Ive already made will do far better.

[excess650]

I preferred faster burnng powder than WSF in the 45ACP. WST was a newer powder than 231, and cleaner. I shot mostly 700x when shooting PPC and IPSC. Later, I noticed the "low recoil" powders seemed cleaner, and definitely made less recoil. I'm speaking of Solo 1000 and Hogdon Clays specifically.

As others have already commented, you smoke is more of a function of your lube.

[Shiloh]

The Alliant Bullseye Alox lube combo is dirty and smokey as heck. The accuracy speaks for itself though.

Shiloh

[RobS]

Lube has a lot to do with it and certain powders the burn hotter can make issues worse. For example, I've used tight group with my current lube and I had more smoke than if I used universal.

[Rocky Raab]

The bad news is that Solo 1000 and Sole 1250 have recently been discontinued. Pity, that.

A seldom-mentioned powder that is EXTREMELY clean-burning with little to no smoke is Alliant's American Select. It fits between Red and Green Dots in burn rate, measures very well and is highly consistent in every handgun round I've tried.

Most smoke when using cast bullets, however, is from the lube.

[Dale53]

I have less smoke when using my current bullet lube (Lars White Label Carnauba Red). The cleanest powder I have used is Hodgdon's Clays. This is a fast burning powder that takes up little space in the case, so you DO have to be careful. It meters well, takes little, and burns extremely clean. The combination of Carnauba Red bullet lube and Clays in the .45 ACP shoots extremely well, burns clean and reduces smoke.

FWIW
Dale53

[MtGun44]

I go with Dale53 on Clays being ultra clean burning. I need to try some Carnuba Red if
it doesn't need a heater. Of course it will be about another 15 years before I use up the
lube that I have in stock!

Bill

[Doby45]

I am actually working on this very thing next week. I will be up at a friends property in NC and I have my test batches already made.

BAC - Clays
BAC - WST

C Red - Clays
C Red - WST

Dardas Blue - Clays
Dardas Blue - WST

I am wanting to find my lowest smoke round without sacrificing accuracy. I will let ya know when I am done. This is in 40cal for now though, but I would assume it would translate to 45 for the most part.

[goste]

Well, now I'm worried I'm not using enough lube........:-P.

I use Xlox/mineral spirts/JPW/, with the Lee TL230, 4.3gr.700X. I really don't notice any smoke to speak of, even while doing a 3sec. 30round Mag.dump. I also shoot outside, but still.....Oh, also get zero to very little leading, once The experts on this forum, solved my leading problems...........:smile:

Caspar.....

[mroliver77]

Zero leading = enough lube. I use Felix lube with carnuba and Titewad powder in the .45 acp. Very clean and very low smoke.
I went to a get together some years ago where a couple "famous" gun writers experimenters were to be there. My home made lube (everything waxy or oily in the barn) was very smoky and I got teased about it. I was kind of embarrassed but I shot as well or better than most there.
I am so tight I squeak.It does allow me to practice more. ;)
Jay

[orangezuk]

+++for WST, I'm using it in many of my auto pistols now(free 6 pounds didn't hurt) I also use alot of PROMO (bargin RedDot) used in .38,.357,.9mm,.40s&w,

[RobS]

I go with Dale53 on Clays being ultra clean burning. I need to try some Carnuba Red if
it doesn't need a heater. Of course it will be about another 15 years before I use up the
lube that I have in stock!

Bill

Bill,
Carnuba Red is a bit stiffer and works better if you have some sort of heat source wether that be an actual heater or a light bulp, hair dryer etc. I find it too stiff to work through a luber unless there is a bit of heat. It's a great lube though.

[geargnasher]

.45 ACP
Felix World Famous Lube
Hodgdon Universal

Gear

[Doby45]

The Universal is good to hear as I also have 4lbs of it... Maybe I should make a batch of universal to go with my other test batches..

[fredj338]

It's a lube issue!

I've used 452-AA, the forerunner of WST, and 473-AA the forerunner of WSF and, as long as I did not use an alox based lube, smoke was a non issue.

I've used Lithi bee, several of the Angel lubes speed green and Carnuba Red all of these make very minimal smoke with 452AA can't say for sure about 231 I've never used it.

Will suggest trying several different lubes and make sure the boolit fits the bore and you should hit a combo that works for you.
Ha, me too. I loved 452-aa in my 45acp, then Win dropped it, then came out w/ WST. It's just as good. With Carnuba or BAC, I get very little smoke. WSF is wha tI like in the 40 & high end 9mm loads, starting to use it in place of Unique in my magnums for midrange stuff.

[JesseCJC]

thanks for the help guys, guess I will try out some new lubes and save the winchester powders for 9mm

[Dale53]

Bill;
Rob S. is correct. Carnauba Red requires heat for application.

Dale53

[MtGun44]

RobS and Dale53,

Thanks. I went out to Lars site and maybe I will try some BAC (Beeswax-Alox-
Carnuba, I suppose). May never get to it. I have a lot already in stock.

Bill

[Windy City Kid]

WST and Rooster jacket bullet lube is the lowest smoke combination I have found for the .45 acp with cast boolits. The second lowest smoke combination in a .45acp is WST and Carnauba Red. I think the accuracy is a little better with the Carnauba Red. Both powder and bullet lube combinations I do not get any leading.

[Bob J]

VV N340 with Carnauba Red is the cleanest burning I've found so far...... Bit pricey but shoots very well for me.....

[Recluse]

I load my 200SWC (home lube sticks) with Bullseye, and my 230 TL boolits (LLA/JPW/MS) with W231. Shoot a lot indoors and get almost no noticeable smoke.

AA#2 is very, very clean burning and fairly fast.

:coffee:

[eveready]

Jesse,
If you're just looking for a light plinking load try Trail Boss with Lars Carnauba Red. I shoot this combo in a Smith 610 to shoot at an indoor range. It is a very low smoke combo and soft shooting.

[EMC45]

Bullseye with Lyman Black Moly and Lee Alox..........................Just Kidding!! Sometimes it looks like I am shooting BP loads at the range..........

[XWrench3]

unfortunatly, it is probably a bit of both. you can find out which is worse by wiping the bottom of you boolits clean with a solvent prior to loading. if they still smoke as bad, then you will know it is the powder.

[Boondocker]

I vote Hodgdon"s Clays ultra clean,easy metering and the brass is still clean no soot. Accurate in my pistols and a nice easy push no snap recoil. I have to drag to chrono out and read these loads yet.:bigsmyl2:

[wallenba]

I just cooked up a batch of Ammosmith's "Lithi-Bee" lube to deal with this problem. It cut my smoke WAYYYY down. It's 1 lb white lithium grease, 1 lb bees wax and 1/4 lb parrafin wax. It's pretty soft and I plan on adding more parrafin and less grease to stiffen it a bit. When hot it's like pudding and won't make a good traditional pan lube, and the grease takes some whipping with a wisk to get smooth.

[Rockchucker]

Bill,
Carnuba Red is a bit stiffer and works better if you have some sort of heat source wether that be an actual heater or a light bulp, hair dryer etc. I find it too stiff to work through a luber unless there is a bit of heat. It's a great lube though.

I live in Florida where it gets pretty hot and don't need any heat at all in my 4500. Winter is a different story. My problem with Carnuba Red is it's very sticky and sticks to other boolits, pulling some of the lube out of the groove. I really like this lube in the sticks it comes in and don't want to mix and melt it. Guess I need to search for a stiffer lube.

[Dale53]

>>>My problem with Carnuba Red is it's very sticky and sticks to other boolits, pulling some of the lube out of the groove.<<<

I haven't had THAT problem, at all. I suspect our difference is based on the way we differ in handling the bullets. I use a minimum of heat (the least amount that works well) and put the bullets neatly in row upon row like little soldiers in plastic boxes. I have NO problems with it being too sticky, nor do I have ANY problem with pulling lube out of the grooves.

Now, if you just size/lube and let them all fall into a box while the lube is still warm, then I could see you having a problem.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

[Rockchucker]

Like I said I use no heat with the C Red in the summer, I also place then in rows to dry out somewhat. After I'm finished sizing/lubing I place the in a plastic container until I'm ready to load them, that's when I have the sticky issue.

[wallenba]

I live in Florida where it gets pretty hot and don't need any heat at all in my 4500. Winter is a different story. My problem with Carnuba Red is it's very sticky and sticks to other boolits, pulling some of the lube out of the groove. I really like this lube in the sticks it comes in and don't want to mix and melt it. Guess I need to search for a stiffer lube.

Try laying them out on wax paper an then chilling them a while in the freezer, then take them out and dust them with motor mica.

[Cherokee]

Lar's Creanauba Red, 231 or WST. The smoke is from the lube, not the powder.

[Rockchucker]

Try laying them out on wax paper an then chilling them a while in the freezer, then take them out and dust them with motor mica.

You know I've thought of putting them in the frig before and that might just work. I've heard of motor mica before, have you any ideas on where to purchase some? I'm guessing a little goes along way. I really like the C red lube and probably have around 20 sticks left, and I've had great results using it. Just wish it wasn't so sticky in my area.

[wallenba]

You know I've thought of putting them in the frig before and that might just work. I've heard of motor mica before, have you any ideas on where to purchase some? I'm guessing a little goes along way. I really like the C red lube and probably have around 20 sticks left, and I've had great results using it. Just wish it wasn't so sticky in my area.

Find mica here http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=290522

[Rockchucker]

Thanks Wallenba