Ruger .45 Colt accuracy

[Wally]

I have a Ruger BHK in the .45 Colt with a 7.5" barrel. Using cast bullets of 250~260 grain weight at factory level velocty...shooting offhand, what can I expect (if I do my part) in terms of accuracy at say 50 feet?

I have shoot most other calibers...ie the .44 SPl...I can get 2~3" on a good day...to me that is good enough with iron sights...ditto with the Ruger BHK with the .45 ACP cylinder.

[Harter66]

I'm shooting the same Ruger with the LEE 452-255rf. Mine has 454 throats so the as cast boolits at 455 do the trick. Even when I push them up to 1000+fps I get 3" two hand groups at 35 yards. With deferance loads down to 800fps it shoots about the same. It'll hold a pie plate out to 75 if I'm solid, like 3 points ,off a knee.

It has 1 hole that will ruin a great group, every time.

[prs]

Wally, unless you measure and correct, if necessary, the cylinder throats; you may be disappointed with pie plate sized groups with cast boolits. All three of my 7 1/2" Rugers were pie plate groupers until I reamed the chambers. They shoot better than I can hold now. I've been told that Ruger 45 Colts shoot copper condom rounds very well as they are; but I have never done that with them.

prs

[Wally]

Wally, unless you measure and correct, if necessary, the cylinder throats; you may be disappointed with pie plate sized groups with cast boolits. All three of my 7 1/2" Rugers were pie plate groupers until I reamed the chambers. They shoot better than I can hold now. I've been told that Ruger 45 Colts shoot copper condom rounds very well as they are; but I have never done that with them.

prs

Cylinder throats are at .4515"...a .452" bullet takes some effort to push through all six chambers--the barrel groove diameter is at .451" and it doesn't lead up.

[Wally]

Wally, unless you measure and correct, if necessary, the cylinder throats; you may be disappointed with pie plate sized groups with cast boolits. All three of my 7 1/2" Rugers were pie plate groupers until I reamed the chambers. They shoot better than I can hold now. I've been told that Ruger 45 Colts shoot copper condom rounds very well as they are; but I have never done that with them.

prs

I have a 454190 and a Lee 252 SWC # 90356--both come out at .454~.455 as cast..I have never done all that well accuracy wise with it and I shoot .41 & .44 mags...I cannot figure out why it is so inaccurate..

[MtGun44]

No reason in the world that you shouldn't be able to do 2" or better at 50ft, that is pretty
short range. The cartridge is capable if 2" or better at three times that distance.

It may take some fiddling, but if your dimensions are right it should go. One significant
sticky wicket is the possibility of a tight spot in the bbl at the frame threads. Spend a bit
of time slugging to see if it is tight there. That can really wreck the accy.

Bill

[BABore]

Take a good look at the bore just ahead of the forcing cone. Many times there are some thread constrictions there that will size down your boolit. You can usually feel it with a jag and tight fitting patch or when slugging the bore. That's the main reason that I always slug the bbl twice. Once all the way through, and a second slug just into the muzzle and back out. If you have a constriction, then lapping is in order.

Your throat(s) and groove dimensions are an exact match for my partner's stainless Ruger BH 7 1/2". No problem getting it to shoot well. You didn't mention your alloy or load. May be that too. Also, you mention that you don't have the same problems with your 41 or 44. Are they also Ruger single actions, or are they DA revolvers? There is a learning curve when shooting a BlackHawk.

Here's a 50 yard bench group with iron sights I saved from a load work-up on my partner's gun. It was a good shooting day and light conditions were perfect.

[Ed Gallop]

I have a Heritage Rough Rider 45 Colt that left very filthy brass. I used .452 until I slugged the barrel at .454 and confirmed from Heritage that it is .454. I then cast and used .454 and the brass was half as dirty but still quite filthy. I believe the cylinder is bored too large causing gases to flow back over the brass, even with the buldge of the .454 loads. All brass are designed for .452 and the extra .002 does buldge the brass going in.

As for accuracy... I'm quite pleased at the performance of .452 and .454 at 50' and longer but it shoots high left with no way to correct it. It may be accurate enough but if I had it to do over again, I would have spent more for better quality.

[Wally]

Take a good look at the bore just ahead of the forcing cone. Many times there are some thread constrictions there that will size down your boolit. You can usually feel it with a jag and tight fitting patch or when slugging the bore. That's the main reason that I always slug the bbl twice. Once all the way through, and a second slug just into the muzzle and back out. If you have a constriction, then lapping is in order.

Your throat(s) and groove dimensions are an exact match for my partner's stainless Ruger BH 7 1/2". No problem getting it to shoot well. You didn't mention your alloy or load. May be that too. Also, you mention that you don't have the same problems with your 41 or 44. Are they also Ruger single actions, or are they DA revolvers? There is a learning curve when shooting a BlackHawk.

Here's a 50 yard bench group with iron sights I saved from a load work-up on my partner's gun. It was a good shooting day and light conditions were perfect.

Great group...it has inpsired me to get this Ruger shooting accuartely onec and for all in teh .45 Colt calaiber

I also have three other Ruger Single Action revolvers in the .44/.357 Mag & the .30 M-1 Carbine---all are very accurate...in fact the Ruger Superblackhawk shoots .44 Specials more accurately than does my S & W 24...as the M-24 has very large cylinder throats

I will check for the restriction, but pushing a very tight cleanig patch down the barrel doesn't feel any different in that area and the barrel doesn't lead up--with a restriction I know that it would--also it shoots .45 ACPs just fine.


I have used both ACWW and Quenched WW..makes no difference..I have tried Red Dot, Unique, Bullseye, HP-38, & W-231 boith with and without poly-fillers.

[jh45gun]

Wally, unless you measure and correct, if necessary, the cylinder throats; you may be disappointed with pie plate sized groups with cast boolits. All three of my 7 1/2" Rugers were pie plate groupers until I reamed the chambers. They shoot better than I can hold now. I've been told that Ruger 45 Colts shoot copper condom rounds very well as they are; but I have never done that with them.

prs
There should be no darn Excuse for this! I would think that Ruger has to know folks complain about this on the net yet they do not care and do nothing about it! Inaccurate Ruger guns for one reason or the other has been an issue for a long time and it is NOT just the 45 colt ones other calibers are bad as well but the 45's seem to be the worst of the lot. If I had a nickle for every gun article in the gun rags that the writer sent the gun off to a pistol smith before writing the review. There is a reason for that other wise they could not write the glowing reviews they write on a inaccurate pistol from the factory.

[Char-Gar]

Wally.. The first step is to go and shoot the pistol and see what it does. If it pleases you then all is well. If it doesn't please you, then it is time to discuss the possible reasons why a Ruger BH in 45 Colt, doesn't come up to scratch and there can be several of those. No sense worrying about what MIGHT be until you know what IS?

When I was 15 years old way back when, I drug a WWII German 8mm Mauser into the local gun shop and asked the man there is it was an accurate rifle. He told me to go out and shoot it and then I would know. He was, of course ,correct. There is no way to predict with certainty what any gun will do until you shoot it.

I have had Ruger BHs in 45 Colt that would shoot like a house-a-fire out of the box and others that would only give patterns. My basic theory about Ruger SA hanguns as they are a good platform from which you can build a fine pistols. Most requires some tweaking to truly do their best.

[Wally]

Wally.. The first step is to go and shoot the pistol and see what it does. If it pleases you then all is well. If it doesn't please you, then it is time to discuss the possible reasons why a Ruger BH in 45 Colt, doesn't come up to scratch and there can be several of those. No sense worrying about what MIGHT be until you know what IS?

When I was 15 years old way back when, I drug a WWII German 8mm Mauser into the local gun shop and asked the man there is it was an accurate rifle. He told me to go out and shoot it and then I would know. He was, of course ,correct. There is no way to predict with certainty what any gun will do until you shoot it.

I have had Ruger BHs in 45 Colt that would shoot like a house-a-fire out of the box and others that would only give patterns. My basic theory about Ruger SA hanguns as they are a good platform from which you can build a fine pistols. Most requires some tweaking to truly do their best.

I have had it for 25 years...I have shot well over 10,000 rounds through it in the .45 Colt...trying everything that I can think of... makes no sense to me that this pistol is not as accurate as it should be...have read posts from others that seem to have the same problem---it appaers taht some Ruger BH in this caliber are very finicky about what load works for them...many have gone to heavier bullets...something that I just don't want to do (cost of lead & recoil issues).

[RayinNH]

Wally, you mentioned a BH with .45 ACP cylinder. Is it the same frame that you just switch cylinders? The factory velocity between .45s Colt and ACP are similar, about 825-850. Use some of the ACP boolits in the Colt cases and compare group size between cylinders. If that doesn't work then compare cylinder throats dimensions...Ray

[Wally]

There should be no darn Excuse for this! I would think that Ruger has to know folks complain about this on the net yet they do not care and do nothing about it! Inaccurate Ruger guns for one reason or the other has been an issue for a long time and it is NOT just the 45 colt ones other calibers are bad as well but the 45's seem to be the worst of the lot. If I had a nickle for every gun article in the gun rags that the writer sent the gun off to a pistol smith before writing the review. There is a reason for that other wise they could not write the glowing reviews they write on a inaccurate pistol from the factory.

These are mass produced & I would assume pass some sort of accuarcy test..Most owners don't shoot them all that much and never try to be proficient with them. I have read that even the S & W Model 25 had lots of accuracy troubles. However they were rare and those that had them were just glad that they had one.

The .45 Colt is a tricky caliber as the case has so much powder capacity and a good load that shoots well in one Ruger won't in another... I am not complaining about mine--merely trying to find a bullet/load that will shoot accurately for me---

I have used many different bullets and loads...I have yet to find one that has worked for me... All I hope to obtain is a laod that lestts me hit a 12" steel disk at 70 yards with five shots off hand--- so far I cannot even do that with mine a 35 yards...

[44man]

Shooting Creedmore or from bags is the only test for accuracy. There is always the problem of us whacko's holding the back end of the silly gun! :veryconfu The human body was not made to hold anything still! :mrgreen: (More Jack Daniels, maybe!)
The Ruger has a nice, fast twist so it really does better with heavier boolits shot pretty fast, about 1100 to 1200 fps.
I can shoot real good from Creedmore but don't ask me to shoot groups off hand.
I have actually shot 1" groups at 75 yards with my Ruger from Creedmore but don't ask me to duplicate it. I can't see for junk anymore.
But here is a 50 yard group I shot when someone challenged me. Took only 5 shots down to my range. I don't think it will ever happen again though. I do have some humility! This is with a 347 gr Lyman boolit with 21.5 gr of 296 ahttps://secure.avangate.com/?sid=0589eafc2b&dldnd a Fed 150 primer.

[bigboredad]

wow I must be the luckiest one on the board. I currently own 2 .45 convertible blackhawks and one birdshead vaquero on .45 colt. Finding loads for these was quite easy and all three shoot great and I have done nothing to the throats Yes they are tight for lead. but I can get great accuracy. They are tough great guns. I think its funny the same people that cry about rugers will go by a colt clone and have to change the springs out right away or shortly after it has been shot only a few times and this is perfectly acceptable to them. I've worn out 2 clones and have never been able to wear out a ruger. If you just have to have your throats opened up cylindersmith can do it for 30 bucks has great turn around time and then you can shoot instead of bash a great gun

[Wally]

Shooting Creedmore or from bags is the only test for accuracy. There is always the problem of us whacko's holding the back end of the silly gun! :veryconfu The human body was not made to hold anything still! :mrgreen: (More Jack Daniels, maybe!)
The Ruger has a nice, fast twist so it really does better with heavier boolits shot pretty fast, about 1100 to 1200 fps.
I can shoot real good from Creedmore but don't ask me to shoot groups off hand.
I have actually shot 1" groups at 75 yards with my Ruger from Creedmore but don't ask me to duplicate it. I can't see for junk anymore.
But here is a 50 yard group I shot when someone challenged me. Took only 5 shots down to my range. I don't think it will ever happen again though. I do have some humility! This is with a 347 gr Lyman boolit with 21.5 gr of 296 ahttps://secure.avangate.com/?sid=0589eafc2b&dldnd a Fed 150 primer.


As I can do well with the other calibers, what puzzles me is why I cannot do so with this one..may well be that it has to have heavier bullets to shoot well...

[Char-Gar]

Walley... If that were my pistol, I would

1. Ream the cylinder throats to .4525 - .453
2. Size my bullets .454
3. Neck size my brass only to the bottom of the bullet. Assuming you are using brass fired in the same pistol.
4. Shoot air cooled weight
5. Make certain I have a good smooth taper throat in the barrel and if not, then ream.
6. Use Unique or a like powder to speeds in the 900 to 1,000 fps range
7. Bullet weight really isn't important as long as they are in the 240 to 300 grain range.

I won't go into a long lecture on the whys, wherefors, ins and outs of the above, but I am convinced if the pistol won't produce at least 2" at 25 yards groups after the above, then throw it in the river and start over. I doubt if you will have to throw it in the river.

[Wally]

1) the cylinder throats are at .452" now--I cannot ream to .424-.423 as they are already larger than that
2) I have used bullets sized to .452 and even pan lubed and used thgem unsized-makes no difference
3) Neck sized---I have started to do that--it has made no difference
4) AC--Have done that as well...no difference
5) have used Unique (8.0 grains) that gives me at 900 FPS MV
6) I use bullets in the 250~260 grain weight

Thankfully the rivers around here are too far away to do that... It still works well with the .45 ACP, so it is a keeper....

[Hardcast416taylor]

Being a poor and old retired person I only own 2 .45 LC Rugers. My general carry is the 5.5" convertable. the other is a 7.5" that I put a scope on for hunting. I use 260Gr, "J" Speer bullets that I have zeroed for 80 yds. and get a nice 3" group. I use the RCBS 255 Gr. for cast use with ACWW and 6.0 gr. of Red Dot.Robert

[sundog]

I've had only one 45 Colt BH go thru my hands, and the cylinder throats were both under size and not consistent. I opened them to .4525, and it made all the difference in the world!

[Wally]

I've had only one 45 Colt BH go thru my hands, and the cylinder throats were both under size and not consistent. I opened them to .4525, and it made all the difference in the world!

As it has worked for you I may have to do just that..they measure out to .4515"--a .451" sized bullet will fall through--a .452" sized will require some effort to push it through... How did you ream yours?

[Wally]

Being a poor and old retired person I only own 2 .45 LC Rugers. My general carry is the 5.5" convertable. the other is a 7.5" that I put a scope on for hunting. I use 260Gr, "J" Speer bullets that I have zeroed for 80 yds. and get a nice 3" group. I use the RCBS 255 Gr. for cast use with ACWW and 6.0 gr. of Red Dot.Robert


I like to shoot and using 20 cent a piece jacketed bullets is just to expensive for my budget and I really shouldn't have to do so in this caliber--glad to hear that the load mentioned works so well for you...

[jh45gun]

wow I must be the luckiest one on the board. I currently own 2 .45 convertible blackhawks and one birdshead vaquero on .45 colt. Finding loads for these was quite easy and all three shoot great and I have done nothing to the throats Yes they are tight for lead. but I can get great accuracy. They are tough great guns. I think its funny the same people that cry about rugers will go by a colt clone and have to change the springs out right away or shortly after it has been shot only a few times and this is perfectly acceptable to them. I've worn out 2 clones and have never been able to wear out a ruger. If you just have to have your throats opened up cylindersmith can do it for 30 bucks has great turn around time and then you can shoot instead of bash a great gun

I own a Uberti Cattleman that I bought because I got tired of Ruger and their poor accuracy guns. The last two I had were pattern makers and one was a Single Six the other a 44 mag. No its not me the last several pistols I have owned I can shoot well enough with open sights though with my aging eyes its not like I used to be able to shoot but still acceptable. I have at one time or an other owned Ruger guns for years starting back in the early 70's. I now own NONE. I found other 22 rifles out of the box or on the used rack shot better then the 10/22. Good Design but there is a reason that there is a large cottage industry to make these into shooters. Same with their pistols yet instead of blame the factory for sloppy work like I do you all decide to spend your money and fix what Ruger would not out of the factory.
What are you doing to wear out two clones I did a web search on Uberti before I bought mine I found that those that had them liked them and they have shot a lot of rounds down range with them. Mine is a Taylor's and Co and I have NO Complaints on the springs or the trigger they are fine as is.

[bigboredad]

I usually shoot hat I own instead of telling other people that theirs is junk maybe that's how I can wear out a clone. and if you did a search you didn't search very hard. I f you want a pretty gun to look at then the clones get the nod but for people that shoot ruger wins hands down.

[Bass Ackward]

Well if the 45 ACP works, then the barrel and frame aren't the problem. And with 10k rounds, that would be gone anyway.

It could be the cylinder, but it doesn't seem to be related to throat size. This doesn't mean that it isn't sloppy, question is would you notice that?

Have you checked your Colt dies? They aren't Cowboy dies are they?

Have you tried partial sizing to remove the potential for chamber slop or seat out so that your bullet starts out fully aligned in the throat?

Sorry, I just read where you have tried that. So the problem has to be related to the Colt cylinder being poorly made for alignment.

[bigboredad]

wally
check out cylindersmith.com he can ream your cylinders for 30 bucks he does top notch work and has quick turn around time. he did a beretta for me but I sold the the gun shortly after cause the spring were so worn out I didn't want to deal with it. I'm pretty sure the springs should last more than six months. any way I believe turn around time was about a week

[Wally]

Well if the 45 ACP works, then the barrel and frame aren't the problem. And with 10k rounds, that would be gone anyway.

It could be the cylinder, but it doesn't seem to be related to throat size. This doesn't mean that it isn't sloppy, question is would you notice that?

Have you checked your Colt dies? They aren't Cowboy dies are they?

Have you tried partial sizing to remove the potential for chamber slop or seat out so that your bullet starts out fully aligned in the throat?

Sorry, I just read where you have tried that. So the problem has to be related to the Colt cylinder being poorly made for alignment.

The cylinder is tight..no lead spitting.

The sizing die is an RCBS carbide.

Yes, I've neck sized a batch--makes no difference

On M-day weekend I will do an experiment--I will shoot five shot groups using a rest, and single loading in each of the six cylinder chambers---I will also chronograph --that may well help me solve this problem.

[Wally]

wally
check out cylindersmith.com he can ream your cylinders for 30 bucks he does top notch work and has quick turn around time. he did a beretta for me but I sold the the gun shortly after cause the spring were so worn out I didn't want to deal with it. I'm pretty sure the springs should last more than six months. any way I believe turn around time was about a week

Thank you...

[bigboredad]

wally
perhaps it the powders you are using possibly trying a slower powder such as hs-6 or 2400 will help out. I've never been real fond of unique and the faster powders in the .45 colt. If you are looking for a light load I've found trailboss works well and is a nice change from the hotter loads

[bigboredad]

another quick question how is your trigger? Have you tried the poor boy trigger job?

[Wally]

another quick question how is your trigger? Have you tried the poor boy trigger job?

The trigger is very good--I can shoot very well using the .45 ACP cylinder so I don't think it needs any trigger work---it is as good if not better than with my other three Rugers

[Wally]

wally
perhaps it the powders you are using possibly trying a slower powder such as hs-6 or 2400 will help out. I've never been real fond of unique and the faster powders in the .45 colt. If you are looking for a light load I've found trailboss works well and is a nice change from the hotter loads


I have not used either in it---I must admit that I feel both cost too much--you need to use a lot of 2400 and Trail Boss is very expensive IMHO...others seem to have done well with the powders that I've mentioned---Unique, Red Dot, Bullseye, HP-38 & W-231

[bigboredad]

I've often heard that about the convertibles and have seen it in my own as well. I know that switching powders can be expensive especially if you can't use it in something else you shoot but it may be worth a try. For me the slower powders have worked better but not the most economical either. I would try reaming your throats and go from there if it was me good luck. I also have had very good luck with the rcbs 280 grain I shoot it sized to .454. If you'd like to try some let me and for the price of shipping I can send you a few that you can size and lube you desires

[9.3X62AL]

The good results with the 45 ACP cylinder kind of rule out the bore and grooves as a problem, I'm leaning toward a cylinder issue of some kind also. I think your Memorial Day Weekend test might yield some answers for you.

My 1995-vintage BisHawk came with .452" grooves and .449" throats. I reamed and polished to .453", and with boolits sized .454" the revolver went from being a one-boolit wonder (#454490) to being a genuine delight with just about any boolit--from H&G 68 clones to 310 grain Mastodon Flatteners.

[bigboredad]

wally
if you are patient and willing I've heard people use a drill pess a split rod with sand paper to open up their throats might be worth a try if the 30 for cylindersmith is a bit prohibitive

[Wally]

I've often heard that about the convertibles and have seen it in my own as well. I know that switching powders can be expensive especially if you can't use it in something else you shoot but it may be worth a try. For me the slower powders have worked better but not the most economical either. I would try reaming your throats and go from there if it was me good luck. I also have had very good luck with the rcbs 280 grain I shoot it sized to .454. If you'd like to try some let me and for the price of shipping I can send you a few that you can size and lube you desires

Yes, I have reseached this and many have found that heavier bullers and slower powders have solved this problem for them. I prefer not to use heavy bullets & slow burning powder..I want to use loads that duplicates a std factory load--I thnak you for your very kind offer.

[Wally]

The good results with the 45 ACP cylinder kind of rule out the bore and grooves as a problem, I'm leaning toward a cylinder issue of some kind also. I think your Memorial Day Weekend test might yield some answers for you.

My 1995-vintage BisHawk came with .452" grooves and .449" throats. I reamed and polished to .453", and with boolits sized .454" the revolver went from being a one-boolit wonder (#454490) to being a genuine delight with just about any boolit--from H&G 68 clones to 310 grain Mastodon Flatteners.

Yes, I think that this test should give me a hint as to what is wrong--I am guessing 1 or 2 cylinder chambers are the culprits.

Three years ago the ejector screew broke off...I returned to Ruger...they replaced the cylinders and the new ones where had smaller cylinder throats, but they are all the same dimesion--my old ones were at .455~.456" the new one at .4515" and all the same. With the old ones the barrel would lead up---that no longer happens now.

[Wally]

wally
if you are patient and willing I've heard people use a drill pess a split rod with sand paper to open up their throats might be worth a try if the 30 for cylindersmith is a bit prohibitive

I'd rather send it out as it would prove difficult to ream them all to the same dimension with that method.

[sundog]

Wally, I borrowed/rented a reamer and pilots/bushings from a guy on another forum - long time ago. Sent him a few bucks when I returned it to him. Only takes a few minutes per chamber, and voila!

I've heard good reports about cylindersmith.

[Wally]

Wally, I borrowed/rented a reamer and pilots/bushings from a guy on another forum - long time ago. Sent him a few bucks when I returned it to him. Only takes a few minutes per chamber, and voila!

I've heard good reports about cylindersmith.

Thank you---after my cylinder test next week I am well be doing business with cylindersmith.

[jh45gun]

I usually shoot hat I own instead of telling other people that theirs is junk maybe that's how I can wear out a clone. and if you did a search you didn't search very hard. I f you want a pretty gun to look at then the clones get the nod but for people that shoot ruger wins hands down.


I have owned more then enough Rugers in my lifetime to say if they are junk or not and thats not the issue the issue is having to fix what Ruger should have in the first place. That's the issue.

For the Record I have seen a heck of a lot more threads and post on problems and complaints with RUGERS then I have COLT CLONES!!! AND Since a lot of the Cowboy action crowd and others shoot Uberti's and others with no complaints maybe your just heavy handed or trying to hotrod a gun that is like a Colt that does not take to heavy loads?????

[fredj338]

My 4 5/8" RBHSS was doing about 2 1/2" @ 50ft w/ the RCBS 270grLSWC @ 950fps. After polishing out the cyl throats to 0.4525", it now does a bit better than 1 1/2".

[KCSO]

Having done a good number of Rugers I will say that for shooting factory jacketed ammo the Ruger is not a bad gun. For cast bullet shooting they do need improvment, but no more than many other makes of gun including S and W's. As an example I will use a buddy's Ruger 44-40. From the factory the gun would shoot 2 -3 " groups at 25 yards. We reamed the cylinder throat and polished the forcing cone and lapped the barrel. Then we set the trigger to a 2 1/2 pound pull. The gun will now shoot under an 1 1/2" at 25 yards from a solid rest. We have put 6 shots into 4" at 100 yards.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ill go even farther with it. Ive got 7 differnt 45 colts. 6 are rugers. 2 of those are custom line bored guns with match barrels. Even those two guns took a bit of load experimenting to find a good load. More time then ive taken with any 44 mag. I find it the exception when i cant get one inch groups at 25 yardsout of a out of the box 44 mag ruger and can usualy get near that at 50. I jump up and down and when i get a one inch group out of one of my 1500 dollar custom ruger 45s . If its with a bullet under 300 grain or even a 300 or heavier out of an out of the box 45 i rent an airplane with a banner on it to fly around proclaiming to the world that im the most talented handloader in the country. Ive owned many more 45 rugers through the years that i just gave up on or sold to buy other guns. Ive never had what i considered an exceptional one. Some were pretty good shooting guns but Id make a wager with any of the 45 colt fans. Id bet my life that if you took 10 out of the box 45 colts and spent two days making up different loads for them and shot groups with every one of them. I could do as good or better picking up one out of the box ruger 44 mag and given two hours in the loading room. I went through the 41 mag phaze everyone said you just had to have one to be cool. I owned many and now have one. Never saw what they did that the 44 didnt do better. I then went through a 45 colt phaze and at one time had 21 of them there. Now i have 7 handguns and 0 rifles. Me im a 44 mag guy. I own more 44 mags then all my other handguns combined. There accurate, just as hard hitting as a 45colt, ammo can be found anywhere in a pinch. (although that argument is lame as i havent bought a box in 20 years) and recoil is fairly mild. I dont buy into the cult thing anymore. Give me a good 44 and i will hunt everything i ever get a chance to hunt for the rest of my life and never once feel undergunned.

[Ed K]

Interesting to see Ruger throats go from 0.455" years ago to undersized in recent times. What are the chambers like these days? Last one I had my hands on went 0.486" or so and resulted in a nasty bulge above the web of every case. 45 Colt cases measure about 0.476" so that's about 0.010" clearance - too much! Maybe this would not be as big a deal in low-pressure Colt loads but the Ruger-only loads would really blow those cases out.

[Wally]

Ill go even farther with it. Ive got 7 differnt 45 colts. 6 are rugers. 2 of those are custom line bored guns with match barrels. Even those two guns took a bit of load experimenting to find a good load. More time then ive taken with any 44 mag. I find it the exception when i cant get one inch groups at 25 yardsout of a out of the box 44 mag ruger and can usualy get near that at 50. I jump up and down and when i get a one inch group out of one of my 1500 dollar custom ruger 45s . If its with a bullet under 300 grain or even a 300 or heavier out of an out of the box 45 i rent an airplane with a banner on it to fly around proclaiming to the world that im the most talented handloader in the country. Ive owned many more 45 rugers through the years that i just gave up on or sold to buy other guns. Ive never had what i considered an exceptional one. Some were pretty good shooting guns but Id make a wager with any of the 45 colt fans. Id bet my life that if you took 10 out of the box 45 colts and spent two days making up different loads for them and shot groups with every one of them. I could do as good or better picking up one out of the box ruger 44 mag and given two hours in the loading room. I went through the 41 mag phaze everyone said you just had to have one to be cool. I owned many and now have one. Never saw what they did that the 44 didnt do better. I then went through a 45 colt phaze and at one time had 21 of them there. Now i have 7 handguns and 0 rifles. Me im a 44 mag guy. I own more 44 mags then all my other handguns combined. There accurate, just as hard hitting as a 45colt, ammo can be found anywhere in a pinch. (although that argument is lame as i havent bought a box in 20 years) and recoil is fairly mild. I dont buy into the cult thing anymore. Give me a good 44 and i will hunt everything i ever get a chance to hunt for the rest of my life and never once feel undergunned.


Lloyd,

Thank you... Seems that it is what I thought---it is challenging to come up with an accurate load for the Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk and it is not just me. Your experience is what I was hoping to to hear. Also, I suspect that shooting one accuarately is a bit trickier than all other calibers that I use and I have most of the popular ones. I find when shooting at my steel plates that most misses are in the 10:00 O'Clock poistion, more often than not... I suspect that I am pulling the revolver that way when unintentionally and it is exacerbated by the fact that this caliber has a longer "barrel" time than all my other big bore revovlvers. However using a good rest---I still cannot get acceptable groupings. If I could I'd let you shoot it..that would show if it is me or the gun.

[NHlever]

I have owned more then enough Rugers in my lifetime to say if they are junk or not and thats not the issue the issue is having to fix what Ruger should have in the first place. That's the issue.

For the Record I have seen a heck of a lot more threads and post on problems and complaints with RUGERS then I have COLT CLONES!!! AND Since a lot of the Cowboy action crowd and others shoot Uberti's and others with no complaints maybe your just heavy handed or trying to hotrod a gun that is like a Colt that does not take to heavy loads?????

Making noise is fun, and I do it myself at times as various forums have reminded me. Still, it is good to have some facts lined up before turning on the noise. Both Ruger, and Smith had a problem with oversized chamber throats for many years. Then Ruger at least made them smaller........ for some stupid reason smaller than the bullets that were to be shot in them... ( I do know why) Starting at least 3 years ago that situation has changed by the best of my measurements, and I find that throats are generally over .451 now. I suggest that you measure some new cylinders at the gun store, and report back here what you find. We love noise that is supported with facts. Look at the dates on all those complaints you have read too......... it's kind of like complaining about a 1-38" twist in a Marlin .444 two years after they changed it to 1-20". At least some of our noise should be to thank manufacturers for the problems that they do, or have addressed.

[Bass Ackward]

We love noise that is supported with facts.



I think that you got on me about this not to long ago, so I did exactly as you suggested. There was only 3 guns for me to measure.

One gun had every throat over .451. But none were the same and .4525 was the largest.

The next one had four throats over .451 and those four were close enough to the same to call it.

The third was 5 of 6 over .451 Only two were the same.

Sizes range from .450 to .4525.

So I conclude that Ruger has altered the specs for "NEW" Colt reamers, but they still don't change them out at the same time or stop exactly at .451 when they wear. Either that or they simply don't check but every so often.

[NHlever]

Reamers can be funny animals sometimes. I am quite sure that Ruger does the cylinders on a CNC machine these days, and so every chamber would be reamed with the same reamer. Sometimes a difference in how much material was left from a previous operation will determine the size a reamer cuts. It will generally cut larger if it is cutting more material, etc. I agree that they could be better than they are still, but do get tired of hearing the same old song that was valid when throats from both S&W, and Ruger were going out the door at .448, or so. I have reamed quite a few chamber throats for Ruger customers, and am familiar with the issue. I also get on them about the restriction in the bore at the barrel threads, and the low front sights on most Blackhawks. Both are caused by the same problem, but they haven't seen fit to address it. Knowing the manufacturing engineer involved, I doubt it will be soon either, and that is too bad. What happens there is that the frames can move slightly in the tooling / fixturing when the front face of the frame is milled, and that is done after the barrel hole is threaded. When the barrel is torqued on to the frame the very slight angle involved makes a little "kink" in the barrel, which produces the "tight" spot, and also puts the sight low.

[Wally]

Frankly, and I must apoligize for this, I never slugged each chamber on my Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk...I merely tried a .452" sized bullet through each just to check that none of the chambers were too big. IOW I never checked that each was the same. Tonight I will do so...shame on me.

If I am lucky they will be different..I can ream them and maybe I will get improved accuracy.

[44man]

I am not sure but it seems to me all chambers are reamed at once with 6 reamers. I would like to know for sure though.

[Wally]

I am not sure but it seems to me all chambers are reamed at once with 6 reamers. I would like to know for sure though.

That's what I had thought...but I never checked..

[jh45gun]

Making noise is fun, and I do it myself at times as various forums have reminded me. Still, it is good to have some facts lined up before turning on the noise. Both Ruger, and Smith had a problem with oversized chamber throats for many years. Then Ruger at least made them smaller........ for some stupid reason smaller than the bullets that were to be shot in them... ( I do know why) Starting at least 3 years ago that situation has changed by the best of my measurements, and I find that throats are generally over .451 now. I suggest that you measure some new cylinders at the gun store, and report back here what you find. We love noise that is supported with facts. Look at the dates on all those complaints you have read too......... it's kind of like complaining about a 1-38" twist in a Marlin .444 two years after they changed it to 1-20". At least some of our noise should be to thank manufacturers for the problems that they do, or have addressed.

SO buying guns and not having them accurate is just making noise? There are still folks complaining about Ruger handguns and their poor customer service on this board and others. In my case yes my guns were older the last Ruger I owned was about 5 years ago it was a new Single Six that shot patterns with both cylinders and I had a used 44 mag BlackHawk I bought in the same period that was the same. Now I have had a good single six in the past along with a good 44 mag for comparison so I know good ones can shoot. Thats not my issue my issue is the guns that Ruger lets go that do not shoot. Years Back Ruger when they sold their Government Model Target Mark II every gun had a target from the factory showing what the gun would do. I bet if they did that with all of their single actions many would not be sold. By the way the discussion here is about Rugers not Marlins. Sure other gun companies can put out a lemon that happens with every thing manufactured but Ruger seems to have cornered the market on guns that are not completely satisfactory. And that is what I have the issue with buying a gun that its quality is not as promised.

[jh45gun]

For what its worth I just have not picked on Ruger Remington models 740 and 742 also belong on the list for Remington abandoning all the folks who bought these guns and then went to the new model and said no more parts buy a new gun we will give you a small stipend to compensate for our mistake on the design of the receivers. I took a loss on one because when I got rid of it their reputation was already out there and those that were in the know did not want to give anything for them. I really am surprised that dealers at gun shows still try to get the money for them that they ask for. But then I do not see any sold either I think they put them out there looking for a sucker.

[NHlever]

jh45gun......... if you think Ruger's are junk then to you they are, and I certainly don't want to call you wrong in that thinking. I did try to point out that sometimes things change at Ruger, S&W, Marlin, and Remington. Sometimes for the better, and sometimes not. I fully agree that there are used Rugers out there with both undersized and oversized chamber throats. I guess my advice was to check the one you are buying, and you might find it just fine.

Never seen six chambers reamed at the same time. I've seen setups with (1), (2), and (3) at a time. That surely doesn't mean that someone isn't doing it.

[Wally]

I checked out Cylindersmith's website..seems he that reams more Ruger .45 Calibers than anything else...I would guess those sending their cylinders to him are doing it for a reason. Doesn't say much for Ruger IMHO...

[bigboredad]

wally
one way to look at it is if they are too small it is easili fixed. Not so easy wit oversized throats. Please keep us updated

[Lloyd Smale]

i dont think anyone is calling them junk. This has been a 45 colt thing way before ruger stepped in. even the old colts are usually out of spec and tough to get to shoot. I surely wasnt bashing ruger as i stated that even my custom guns that are about as much ruger as a 700bdl is are still tough to get to shoot. Wally there is something to your thoughts. Its much tougher to shoot a gun thats slow. Not only do you have to deal with the slow lock time sa guns are known for but a slow bullet down the barrel effects accuracy tremendously unless your trigger control and follow through are perfect. I know many bullseye shooters that found out the same with there 52s and stepped up there loads to have the bullet clear the barrel faster. No one can teach you trigger control over the internet. Your best bet is first to get a good action job done and then try to wear those parts out dry firing it every chance you get. Another good training tool is a 22. Dont make the mistake though of trying to learn to fast. You can pick up more bad habbits then good when you try to shoot 500 rounds in a sitting. take a 22 to the range with a box of shells and when you shoot those 50 go home. When you shoot them dont even worry about hitting anything at first just consentrate on your grip your trigger control and probably most importantly your follow through. After a couple bricks then try hitting something. Ill bet you surprise yourself.

[jh45gun]

jh45gun......... if you think Ruger's are junk then to you they are, and I certainly don't want to call you wrong in that thinking. I did try to point out that sometimes things change at Ruger, S&W, Marlin, and Remington. Sometimes for the better, and sometimes not. I fully agree that there are used Rugers out there with both undersized and oversized chamber throats. I guess my advice was to check the one you are buying, and you might find it just fine.

Never seen six chambers reamed at the same time. I've seen setups with (1), (2), and (3) at a time. That surely doesn't mean that someone isn't doing it.

I do not think all Rugers are junk I have had some good ones. Sadly I let them go as we sometimes do and now I am gun shy (Pun Intended) on getting an other bad one after having several. If I could shoot it first fine but most gun shops will not let you do that and its not worth the hassle to wait the waiting period in WI and filling out the paper work to shoot a gun that you do not want to keep. Unless your buying from a friend most other folks in a private sale are not going to bother to let you shoot it either.

[NHlever]

I agree that it is easy to feel "burned" by a brand, and I've felt that way about Rugers sometimes too. Buying a functional gun shouldn't be a **** shoot any more than buying a functional car. Nor should we need to take a full set of armourer's tools with us to check out a gun before buying it. The best thing we can do is use those avenues that are available....... like the "tell the CEO" feature at Ruger's web site to make it clear that these things do affect our buying decisions. I think that gun companies are trying to improve things since all have seen their market share errode, but it still hurts to finance those improvements by buying defective, or poorly functioning guns.

[jh45gun]

I agree that it is easy to feel "burned" by a brand, and I've felt that way about Rugers sometimes too. Buying a functional gun shouldn't be a **** shoot any more than buying a functional car. Nor should we need to take a full set of armourer's tools with us to check out a gun before buying it. The best thing we can do is use those avenues that are available....... like the "tell the CEO" feature at Ruger's web site to make it clear that these things do affect our buying decisions. I think that gun companies are trying to improve things since all have seen their market share errode, but it still hurts to finance those improvements by buying defective, or poorly functioning guns.


I agree with ya there. For me money has always been tight so buying a major purchase like a gun is a big thing and I would trade sometimes to get what I wanted which normally meant the gun shop got the best end of the deal as they normally low ball your trade so they make out twice on your gun. Not the best way to purchase out right is better but some times for the gun I wanted the cash just was not there so the trade helped me seal the deal. To do so and get stuck with a poor gun in this case them last Rugers I had gotten really hurts because not only you sacrificed on the trade to get the gun you really wanted now you find out you got a lemon or a gun that at the least needs work or to be sent back to the factory. That really sucks. I suspect I am not the only one who either had to trade something to get what they wanted or scrimped and saved only to get stuck with a poor excuse for merchandise.

[Wally]

I used my caliper on my Ruger .45 Cal convertible Blackhawk---all cylinder throats & the groove diameter were exactly the same..this was for both cylinders--they measured .451". So, because the cylinders are the same size as the groove diameter should I have the cylinders reamed/opened up to .452~.4525"? Would that really improve the accuracy?

[44man]

I used my caliper on my Ruger .45 Cal convertible Blackhawk---all cylinder throats & the groove diameter were exactly the same..this was for both cylinders--they measured .451". So, because the cylinders are the same size as the groove diameter should I have the cylinders reamed/opened up to .452~.4525"? Would that really improve the accuracy?
Try it first, it should shoot OK.
But calipers do not give good measurements in round holes.

[Lloyd Smale]

are they improving or not? The latest ruger 45 i bought is a 4 5/8s blackhawk blued. All of the throats are 452 and its a fairly good shooter. even the fit is good on that gun and its fairly tight for an out of the box ruger. I just had my montado replaced by ruger and the new one is allready being sent back. The barrel was overtightened to the point that that ejector rod housing wouldnt sit flush and only one thread on the screw was holding it on. It blew off about every other shot. Now youd think the man or women putting that gun together would JUST KNOW that if they sent it like that it would have to be shipped back and stop and either fix it or reject it. Ruger has a good warantee and will no doubt fix about anything but they also have a policy of having about no rejects. Send them out and hope the customer is one who stick there gun in a safe and doesnt use it.
I was once looking for a vaquero for a 500 linebaugh project and traded for one that really made me chuckle. The guy told me the top strap grove was cut crooked but i figured it was a minor thing that John could straighten out. I got the gun and the grove went for one corner of the top strap to the opposite corner. Now how a gun like that every made it out of the factory is beyond me and how anyone that knew anything about guns would have ever bought it is another puzzler. Ruger replaced it. As a matter of fact they told me i could have any handgun they made in exchange for it. But give me a break! doesnt anyone there even look at a gun there boxing up.

[Ed K]

I used my caliper on my Ruger .45 Cal convertible Blackhawk

You can't measure accurately enough with a caliper to make a good decision.

You really need pin gages, lead slug and micrometer or small hole gages and micrometer

edit: I just read down to wally's post and commented - did not see 44man said the same thing

[44man]

So far, knock on wood, every single BFR I have and friends have bought, have been perfect.
Cost is not much different from a Ruger unless you want a custom shop gun, but then you will have the best. Not any better then their production guns except for other calibers and a nicer finish.
Sadly Magnum Research does not offer a .44 or .45 except from the custom shop but they will make anything you want.

[jh45gun]

are they improving or not? The latest ruger 45 i bought is a 4 5/8s blackhawk blued. All of the throats are 452 and its a fairly good shooter. even the fit is good on that gun and its fairly tight for an out of the box ruger. I just had my montado replaced by ruger and the new one is allready being sent back. The barrel was overtightened to the point that that ejector rod housing wouldnt sit flush and only one thread on the screw was holding it on. It blew off about every other shot. Now youd think the man or women putting that gun together would JUST KNOW that if they sent it like that it would have to be shipped back and stop and either fix it or reject it. Ruger has a good warantee and will no doubt fix about anything but they also have a policy of having about no rejects. Send them out and hope the customer is one who stick there gun in a safe and doesnt use it.
I was once looking for a vaquero for a 500 linebaugh project and traded for one that really made me chuckle. The guy told me the top strap grove was cut crooked but i figured it was a minor thing that John could straighten out. I got the gun and the grove went for one corner of the top strap to the opposite corner. Now how a gun like that every made it out of the factory is beyond me and how anyone that knew anything about guns would have ever bought it is another puzzler. Ruger replaced it. As a matter of fact they told me i could have any handgun they made in exchange for it. But give me a break! doesnt anyone there even look at a gun there boxing up.

Your Post Lloyd makes for a good argument for those that insist that Rugers are such great guns and that they NEVER had an issue with them. Evidently you are like me you have had more than one gun with issues. I do agree with the others if you have a good Ruger its a nice gun but going through the hassles of a bad one is a PITA. Yea Ruger will fix the issue but at what cost to you besides time and energy and loss of a gun for a while as its being fixed or replaced. I never sent back a gun to Ruger I usually was so ticked off at that time I took them back to the place I bought them and traded them off. So tell me this do they cover shipping both ways or are you stuck with it? If your stuck with it that is hardly fair to the customer. Only gun I ever had an issue with was a Henry that I really like and I called the Company and the President of the company Anthony Imperato personally takes care of all customer service issues. He sent me a pre paid sticker to mail back my gun at no cost to me so shipping was free both ways no expense on my part. Now that's customer service. The Gun came back perfect and since I had mounted a scope on the gun I had taken off the rear sight. I never said anything about the sight but they put on an other sight anyway.

[pistolman44]

I have a BH 7 1/2" built in the late 70's and it shoots great. I cast from a Lee mold that comes out 251gr RFN and sized to .452". It has no trouble taking pins off the table. I load to over 1000 FPS with 15gr. of WC 820. This hot load is for Ruger revolvers only. I also did a trigger job on it, pull is around 1 lb.

[jh45gun]

That's a pretty light trigger for a handgun.

[Wally]

Try it first, it should shoot OK.
But calipers do not give good measurements in round holes.

I slugged each cylinder chamber & the barrel...I do believe the caliper will give an accurate measurement on the slugs

[Bass Ackward]

Sadly Magnum Research does not offer a .44 or .45 except from the custom shop but they will make anything you want.



Not exactly true. May I introduce:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_38/products_id/61779

[JRR]

Everything seems consistent between the ACP and 45 C cylinders. The only variable that bears upon accuracy that is not mentioned is case length uniformity and crimp. If the cases are not all the same length withing .002" the crimp will affect accuracy. If the load is mild, try using the taper crimp die from the ACP set as an experiment.
Jeff

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive had good and bad. Ive sent many back for repair through the years and no they dont pay the shipping there. they will pay return shipping though. Im sure theres enough of them returned that if they paid shipping theyd take a pretty good hit every year. They make a good gun for the money but i have to shake my head at there quality control station before boxing. I can just picture a big fat lady with a marlboro hanging out of her mouth talking on the phone to her friend about whats on sale at walmart!!! Problem we fight is that probably half the guns that are sold are never really shot. they may get test fired or at the most shoot a box of shells through them in a year and most of the owners wouldnt know if they were accurate or not or if they were well fit or not. Its probably cheaper for ruger to put out guns with loose quality control and deal with the few of us that really use them.
Your Post Lloyd makes for a good argument for those that insist that Rugers are such great guns and that they NEVER had an issue with them. Evidently you are like me you have had more than one gun with issues. I do agree with the others if you have a good Ruger its a nice gun but going through the hassles of a bad one is a PITA. Yea Ruger will fix the issue but at what cost to you besides time and energy and loss of a gun for a while as its being fixed or replaced. I never sent back a gun to Ruger I usually was so ticked off at that time I took them back to the place I bought them and traded them off. So tell me this do they cover shipping both ways or are you stuck with it? If your stuck with it that is hardly fair to the customer. Only gun I ever had an issue with was a Henry that I really like and I called the Company and the President of the company Anthony Imperato personally takes care of all customer service issues. He sent me a pre paid sticker to mail back my gun at no cost to me so shipping was free both ways no expense on my part. Now that's customer service. The Gun came back perfect and since I had mounted a scope on the gun I had taken off the rear sight. I never said anything about the sight but they put on an other sight anyway.

[jh45gun]

Lloyd, I agree many folks do not know what a good short gun is capable of. Some folks if they bounce a can once in a while think they are doing ok. Like you say others are bought and never fired or very seldom so those folks have no clue either. Others may figure a pistol is a up close in your face gun so accuracy is not that important. For those of us that shoot we do care about accuracy. I also agree that they make a good gun IF you get a good one but out of four single actions I have had that were Ruger two were good two were bad for a 50% Ratio.That's not a very good percentage. Seeing post on the forums confirms that you and I are not alone with getting bad guns from Ruger. Sure others make bad guns once in a while too but I think Ruger is leading the pack which is why I do not own one anymore and am afraid to take a chance on an other. Only way I would buy one is if I could shoot it first and unless you know the seller who would be a private one that is not going to happen.

[44man]

Not exactly true. May I introduce:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_38/products_id/61779
Hey, your right, they also have the .454 too. Those are new offerings.
The problem with the .45 is that it also shoots a .410.

[Lloyd Smale]

you about have to buy rugers considering them a blank canvas. ALL of them need action work, many need cylinder throats reamed and barrels lapped some need forcing cones recut. Just about every ruger i have has had bowen sights put on then as my old eyes work better with them. I have belt mountain base pins in most to keep the pin from jumping with heavy loads. Most can stand some work on the ejector rod housing to keep it from flying off, at least some locktite. I also freewheel most of them. Now these are my working guns i go alot farther with the custom guns. Granted a guy can buy a bfr that most of this is allready addressed but alot of this can be done cheap or by yourself and when your done you dont have near as heavy of a gun and bfrs dont or at least didnt last time i looked come in any barrel lengths that work good with a hip holster even if they were light enough to pack like that. Now the bfrs arent perfect either. the only one i ever owned had a pour grip frame to frame fit and was only held on by 2 screws (didnt have the notchs a ruger has. The trigger need work as much as any ruger ive owned. I didnt like the lack of a cross pin for the ejector rod housing. I use a lock screw at the range but when im hunting i dont carry a screwdriver. The front on my gun was shinny stainless and useless like that. A personal thing but i detest oversized grips and especially rubber ones so they would have had to go. To me it was like a ruger but buy the time i would have fixed the flaws i would have had near what a field grade FA cost that allready addressed the bfrs flaws and was easier packing. The little i shot it before i peddle it seemed to show it was accurate though. I just couldnt stand the feel of it. It was to big and heavy for me. I sold it to raise the down payment of my first linebaugh built gun. A 5.5 inch 475 that was made the way i wanted it right from the git go. (
Lloyd, I agree many folks do not know what a good short gun is capable of. Some folks if they bounce a can once in a while think they are doing ok. Like you say others are bought and never fired or very seldom so those folks have no clue either. Others may figure a pistol is a up close in your face gun so accuracy is not that important. For those of us that shoot we do care about accuracy. I also agree that they make a good gun IF you get a good one but out of four single actions I have had that were Ruger two were good two were bad for a 50% Ratio.That's not a very good percentage. Seeing post on the forums confirms that you and I are not alone with getting bad guns from Ruger. Sure others make bad guns once in a while too but I think Ruger is leading the pack which is why I do not own one anymore and am afraid to take a chance on an other. Only way I would buy one is if I could shoot it first and unless you know the seller who would be a private one that is not going to happen.

[jh45gun]

That's just more work than I am willing to do and since when did that all start happening the early Rugers I bought were fine. I sure wish I would have kept both of them. I do think the earlier guns had less issues but those after started with the issues. Machinery getting worn? The Old Machinist retiring and the new ones not as good??? Who knows???

[Ed K]

I think the BFR should be thought of like a Ruger Super Redhawk: it is a primary hunting arm and not a belt gun - never will be. I do not think it is outsized set up like 44man's avatar however chambered in 44mag and cut to 5.5" I would not like it. I'm sure of that. Another thing is much to the dismay of present BFR owners and because of MRI dumping these things I was able to buy my 475 cheaper than a new Super Redhawk at my dealer. I'm definitely not here to defend MRI though. As I said practices such as liquidating excess inventory will no doubt hurt your existing customer base and just last week I called about getting some spare springs and they wanted me to send the gun in...

Back to Rugers... yes they are a kit in some ways. At least undersized throats can be corrected. I inquired earlier in this thread about the 45 Colt chambers themselves. Are they any smaller these days? Looking for something more like 0.480" such as my USFA and FA

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have three Ruger BlackHawks. The best is the Old Model .357/9MM convertible that I bought from a fellow churchmember in '03. It was made in '71 with the rabbit ears protectors on the rear sight but never fired before I bought it.

It has the 4 5/8 bbl and came with the orginal box, papers, red sack with 9 MM cylinder and two boxes of virgin 357 AMMO. Each box priced at less than $7.50 per box of 50. This gun is flawless. Shoots like a house afire and it will be the last gun I ever sell.

The second is an Old Model Blackhawk in .30 Carbine with the 7 1/2 bbl. It was used nicely and not abused and is a lot of fun to shoot if you can stand the noise. It has got to be the loudest gun I have ever fired. At night the flames can light up a soccer field with the right powder. Accuracy is outstanding and I can hit the 100 yd gong all day long from a decent rest. It is fun to reload for and cheap to shoot. It is a keeper.

The third is a 45/45 convertible. It was claimed to be all orginal by the seller. However the maker sez that it originally was a 7 1/2 bbl blued 45 Colt. It came as a convertible with a brass frame and a 4 5/8 bbl. Who can believe a seller?

It does OK with 45 colt but the .45 ACP cylinder does not fit the gun and the stag grips on the New Model frame are huge. Much too big for my dainty hands. It will require some gunsmithing to fit the 2nd cylinder and I will have the grips ground down some to fit my hands. Accuracy with the 45 Colt seems pretty good but not in the league with the 357 or 30 Carbine. The chamber throats will not admit a .453 pin gauge but will take a .452 OK. I have yet to slug the bbl but a caliper measurement shows that the throat/ bbl is somewhere in the .453 range. It may have the dreaded constriction in the bbl abaft the threads.

However over all these Rugers did not cost a lot of money when purchased. They seem to want to go on forever and have provided many hours of enjoyment for me and my friends. Yeah they could have been better but I am happy with them for the most part. The .45 Colt still needs some work but over all I am satisfied with the product that Ruger put out.

[44man]

MRI has a very low advertising cost. They don't spend millions every month, so they can cut the costs, depending on word of mouth.
They are hunting guns and accuracy guns, nothing more, but are the best for the money.
They are the only gun maker that has actually cut the cost of guns. You can find deals if you look and I don't see that as bad. I paid more for one then I could now but I would never part with it.
Ruger has gone crazy with increased prices, many like S&W following along.
Being a hunter, I don't need a light carry gun so I would buy a BFR any day before anything else even though I still love a little revolver like a Colt or Vaquero.
There is a place or need for all kinds of revolvers and I love every single one of them and respect what all of you like. I just can't afford those I have no use for even though I want them.
Believe me, if I was rich I would have every single action ever made! [smilie=s:

[jh45gun]

you about have to buy rugers considering them a blank canvas. ALL of them need action work, many need cylinder throats reamed and barrels lapped some need forcing cones recut. Just about every ruger i have has had bowen sights put on then as my old eyes work better with them. I have belt mountain base pins in most to keep the pin from jumping with heavy loads. Most can stand some work on the ejector rod housing to keep it from flying off, at least some locktite. I also freewheel most of them. Now these are my working guns i go alot farther with the custom guns. Granted a guy can buy a bfr that most of this is allready addressed but alot of this can be done cheap or by yourself and when your done you dont have near as heavy of a gun and bfrs dont or at least didnt last time i looked come in any barrel lengths that work good with a hip holster even if they were light enough to pack like that. Now the bfrs arent perfect either. the only one i ever owned had a pour grip frame to frame fit and was only held on by 2 screws (didnt have the notchs a ruger has. The trigger need work as much as any ruger ive owned. I didnt like the lack of a cross pin for the ejector rod housing. I use a lock screw at the range but when im hunting i dont carry a screwdriver. The front on my gun was shinny stainless and useless like that. A personal thing but i detest oversized grips and especially rubber ones so they would have had to go. To me it was like a ruger but buy the time i would have fixed the flaws i would have had near what a field grade FA cost that allready addressed the bfrs flaws and was easier packing. The little i shot it before i peddle it seemed to show it was accurate though. I just couldnt stand the feel of it. It was to big and heavy for me. I sold it to raise the down payment of my first linebaugh built gun. A 5.5 inch 475 that was made the way i wanted it right from the git go. (

Whats a New Ruger cost now 500 bucks give or take???? For that kinda money I would expect a gun that is a shooter out of the box not something that you need to start gun smithing to make it good. I guess that's the reason I do not own a Ruger at this time.