Ignorance Rant

[Doc_Stihl]

At the gun shop at lunch and had a "firearms instructor" with 15 years experience tell me, "His guns don't ever see lead, it fouls the bore".

I had to take a second as to not let out a four letter string of words followed by YOU IGNORANT WELP.

I asked him how he dealt with copper fouling and he looked at me like I had 4 eyes. "Copper doesn't foul" he tells me. 25 minutes later after explaining how a projectile and a rifled bore works, and properties of metal, he seems a bit better educated. Wow are some people confident in their ignorance.

AND THAT DOESN'T EVEN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE SELF DEFENSE AMMO line (like straight from Ayoobs lips) he gave me half way through. I mighta let a BS slip out when he uttered that nonsense....

[wills]

Why bother trying to give a pig a bath?

[Freightman]

Why bother trying to give a pig a bath?
Right on!

[FISH4BUGS]

......shake you head and walk away in stunned silence. Ignorance is dangerous.
I was talking to an acquaintence (he drives a mercedes diesel as do I and we share the same mechanic - have talked with him many times in the past) at a fru-fru wine and cheese tasting/art show, and he started in on me about guns. When I told him I collect and shoot machine guns he freaked out and said "....you scare me". I just walked away.
No sense in even replying. Stupid is as stupid says....and boy when someone is THAT stupid is just isn't worth the breath.

[Blammer]

Doc, I'm right with you, I'd have to jump on him like a robin on a june bug. What an idiot.

[Ben]

It usually doesn't take me long to spot one of these " Know it All Types " I usually won't even slow down and talk with them.

When you've got to fill up a swimming pool with a tea cup, you're work is really cut out for you.

I once met a Law Enforcement Firearms instructor that didn't know how to adjust a rear sight on a pistol. His pistol was shooting low / left and he was " baffled " about what to do about it . I asked if he needed some help and he said ... sure !

We corrected the rear sight and he was shooting dead on when I left him 5 minutes later.

" Titles " don't always mean a lot................

Ben

[Doc_Stihl]

Not an idiot at all....Just IGNORANT. Ignorance can be cured (if the party is willing)

after half an hour of talking and explaining, he sees the light (some of it) and was on the path to getting a press and supplies. He'll be by the house sometime for some lessons and to see how it's done.
The lead projectile bliss hadn't sunk in, but small steps seemed appropriate.

[Doc_Stihl]

That being said, I've run into plenty of gun shop trolls that just plain "know" too many things and aren't worth even conversing with. This case just happened to be a lost lamb that wants to know, just didn't yet.

[dubber123]

Ask 'em out for a short plinking session. That REALLY shuts the bulk of them up. How often do you see a blabbermouth that can back up his words? I NEVER try to come across as an expert at anything. I know it will some day save me alot of embarrasment when I meet up with the person that knows more than I do...

[spqrzilla]

It is important to distinguish between people who are ignorant of facts and those who hold opinions you don't agree with. The latter are not necessarily ignorant.

[Murphy]

About 20 years ago, my stepson who is a state trooper was having a 3 day qualification at their local range. They were swapping over from revolvers to automatics. He called and asked if I'd like to come spend the day. Sure thing!

It wasn't just for state troopers alone, other law enforcement agency's were allowed to send officers as well.

There was one poor fella who's boolits were all over the target from 5 yards. He was shooting a Ruger 9MM with cast boolits. He kept saying something is wrong here. The two EXPERT firearms instructors that were sent down from the big city, kept telling him to 'try harder'...you're just missing. In reality? His boolits were keyholing. They had been calling them 'Doubles'.

At the end of the day, I noticed the officer with the 2 intructors trying to 'line out' his gun. They would take 3 shots at the head of the target, adjust sights, move to the next target and try again. After their 5th attempt, I walked up and asked if I may see the targets a second? Sure buddy...

I called the instructors over and asked: Were you not just shooting 3 rounds each before adjusting the sites then trying again? 'Uh ...yeah buddy'. Well can you explain to me then why you have doubles on EVERY one of these targets with 3 holes in each one? Wouldn't that have taken 4 shots?

I quickly told the officer to go buy some store bought rounds to get thru the class the next day and left. Looking over my shoulder I eyed 2 'experts' looking at me with a bit of disaproval.

My stepson informed me the next day the guy showed up with new ammo, top shooter of the day. 'Nuff said'.


Murphy

[scrapcan]

The probelm I have with just walking on is that these monkeys are the first that new shooters and non shooters get to talk to. It is a bad deal when that level is our public relations department. You may not be able to correct them, but you can at least offer to help the novice get a good start.

[EMC45]

It's funny when you enlighten some folks how they act towards you. They are downright indignent at times!

[Jim]

When I encounter "experts", I usually just tell them what they want to hear. "Really?" "No kiddin'!" "How 'bout that!" "Wow, I didn't know that!" and so on.
I learned a long time ago in the construction industry that the more you challenge them, the harder they stand their ground.
Besides, you give a man enough rope.....

[Suo Gan]

One of my good hunting buddies is 80+, you can't tell him a damned thing because he has been there and done that...even if he was wrong. I used to try to get him to see the light on certain issues that he made his mind up about 60 years ago. Now I just agree with him and we are both happy. Being stubborn and ignorant isn't that bad because he doesn't know what he is missing anyway. If you were around Larry for a day he would crush you and any attempt you made at enlightening him. He'd walk over you like short grass, lol.

[mike in co]

one of my suppiers( an indoor range) had an employee telll a shooter..not to use lead cause it wears the bore faster than copper .............


mike in co

[RobS]

I've seen this from time to time as well and to be honest these people are just like anyone else who believes in something. Think about it this way............some individuals live by what they know or have experienced. This does not make them idiots, just uninformed and many times stubborn. If you look here on this forum there are people who are knowledgeable and yet with all of their wisdom they can come across rough in their intent as well.

Anyway, I always try to educate individuals if they are willing to listen and like this forum it is best to ease into your education efforts and not use definite responses like, "You can shoot cast, you are doing things wrong”or “You can shoot lead bullets in your gun etc". Instead I ask them what gun they are shooting and at what distance are they shooting at. I also comment positively on their shooting methods if there are any in my view such as, "I can see jacketed bullets work for you as it sounds like you are doing well with them". After starting the conversation with common and non invasive ground it is a whole lot easier to start explaining the concepts of cast bullets and the principles of how it all works.

Still with all this psychological advancement to make some individuals understand things it is still left to deaf ears sometimes and this is where I simply move out of the conversation as politely as I came in. I would have to say about 75% of the time an "ease in" approach works as most individuals are capable of listening if they don't feel as if someone is crunching down on what they are currently doing.

[felix]

Maven, Professor, and Charlie26 are professional educators I know about on this board. We can all learn from their projective examples. ... felix

[44mag1]

When I encounter "experts", I usually just tell them what they want to hear. "Really?" "No kiddin'!" "How 'bout that!" "Wow, I didn't know that!" and so on.
I learned a long time ago in the construction industry that the more you challenge them, the harder they stand their ground.
Besides, you give a man enough rope.....

+1 on this. I use it for "entertainment"

[Jim]

There ya' are!

[deerslayer]

Most people are experts in their opinion and beliefs. Unfortunately facts sometimes sneak in there and get in the way of a belief or long held opinion.
It is how an individual handles this that makes or breaks them!

[abunaitoo]

We have lots of know-it-all's here.
I think it's somekind of mental disorder.
One guy here knows everything about everything.
Even things he knows nothing about.

I had a guy tell me once that since he had been doing something the same way for over 10 years, he had to be doing it right.
Later he found out he was doing it wrong for the past 10 years.

I always get a kick when people say they have 15 years experiance shooting and know everything.
Must be nice to know everything.
I've been shooting for over 15 years, and I learn someting new almost everytime I shoot or reload.
Either I'm not to smart, or I'm smarter than I think.

[Doc_Stihl]

My biggest gripe is when someone tells me it can't be done the way I'm doing it.

Might not be the best way, might not be the easiest way, but don't tell me it's not possible. I don't even mind if you tell me I'm doing it "wrong". Just don't tell me it ain't possible.

[Jim]

My biggest gripe is when someone tells me it can't be done the way I'm doing it.

Might not be the best way, might not be the easiest way, but don't tell me it's not possible. I don't even mind if you tell me I'm doing it "wrong". Just don't tell me it ain't possible.

Oh, yeah. I LOVE that!

[9.3X62AL]

Perhaps the GREATEST VALUE we provide one another on sites like this is "that other way to do things". The creativity and common sense that dwells here and similar places is awe-inspiring at times.

That's me--reloading since 1971, and still learning. When the time arrives that I know it all, I'll check for a toe tag before running my mouth. Ignorance is 100% curable, and I still reserve the right to be wrong--and to learn my errors.

[mtnman31]

I am mixed when it comes to dealing with know-it-all's. Somedays I ignore them and just walk away smiling to myself and other days I try and enlighten them. I am by no means an expert in all things shooting, but I do my homework and try not to speak or voice my opinion unless it is a subject that I am really familiar with. It can be very rewarding personally, when you take the time to teach someone something and you see the "lightbulb" come on in their head when they suddenly have a much better understanding of something they previously were clueless about.

As some of the others have mentioned, it pays to enlighten some of the ignorant because sooner or later they are going to be the guy that gives a new or student shooter some bad advice that gets them hurt or damages some property. On the other hand, at the end of the day, some people just refuse to learn because in their minds they REALLY DO know it all.

[DLCTEX]

A couple of local guys tell me that cast bullets lead and you just have to expect it and clean it out. I said mine don't. They just look like "oh sure". In questioning them about their loads, they are buying commercially cast bullets for 41 mag and 44 mag and load them to hot magnum jacketed velocities. I wonder why they are having leading. One of them also has a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. He loads 200 gr. SWC to Rugers hot jacketed loads. When I suggested his loads were too hot, he said if he couldn't shoot them hot he would just not shoot. I hope he enjoys cleaning out lead. He also likes to load rifles hot and has damaged several guns in the past few years. I don't respond to his invitations to go shooting with him. He knows David Tubbs and is always saying that Tubbs doesn't know half as much as he thinks he does. I replied he must know something as he has won enough matches to get a reputation. He said he's just lucky.

[wistlepig1]

A couple of local guys tell me that cast bullets lead and you just have to expect it and clean it out. I said mine don't. They just look like "oh sure". In questioning them about their loads, they are buying commercially cast bullets for 41 mag and 44 mag and load them to hot magnum jacketed velocities. I wonder why they are having leading. One of them also has a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. He loads 200 gr. SWC to Rugers hot jacketed loads. When I suggested his loads were too hot, he said if he couldn't shoot them hot he would just not shoot. I hope he enjoys cleaning out lead. He also likes to load rifles hot and has damaged several guns in the past few years. I don't respond to his invitations to go shooting with him. He knows David Tubbs and is always saying that Tubbs doesn't know half as much as he thinks he does. I replied he must know something as he has won enough matches to get a reputation. He said he's just lucky.

DLCTEX, sometimes you just can't help some people. With that narrow of views, I would just walk away and smile and hope when he blows up his 44 at the range, no one is killed.

[Bret4207]

One of my worst enemies has opened his mouth and inserted both feet up to his hips on more than one occasion. My enemy is that guy I see in the mirror every morning.

The number one thing most of us could use is a giant sized dose of humility. That only helps us though. The morons, idiots, brain dead and plant life IQ types can't be helped until they open their own minds. People like Felix, Maven, Backasswards, Bruce B, Ben and some others have really opened my eyes here over the years. I came here with pre-conceived notions and a great many of those notions were proven wrong- right after I swallowed my pride and pushed my ego back down where it belonged. After tasting crow on multiple occasions I found that accepting I was, in fact, actually as dumb as a rock and working from there seemed to lead to better results.

Live and learn.

[Doc Highwall]

I like it when I tell somebody about some shooting that I did and they say that it cannot be done because they tried it and could not do it. My response is, don't judge my abilities by the lack of yours. I hear the some of the same comments like other people here about cast bullets ruining the gun or leading never mind the poor accuracy and I just laugh to myself. It is nice when I am shooting cast bullets at the range and somebody looks at my target and has a open mind and asks questions about how I get the accuracy that I do, and then when I tell them how cheap it is after set up cost it just blows their mind.

[MtGun44]

If there seems to be some hope, I offer to help if they are interested. Most are, some are
not. I'll go pretty far out of my way to help someone that is willing to learn and will think.

I agree very much with Bret. I have to make darned sure that I don't wind up telling someone
my opinion, not fact, without very clearly labeling it as such.

I know a few things to be true and will stand by them. Often it is more like, "This has
worked this way for me. Might be different for you, but you might have the same
success or avoid wasting time."

Especially here, I make a real effort not to be set in my ways. I definitely have my
viewpoints (you all know that by now) but I make an effort to point out that there
are almost always different ways to get good results, but here is a way that I have
found that works and has a pretty good chance of working for someone else. I have
really learned a lot by just reading what some of our real experts are writing. I
feel like I have a reasonable handle on pistols, but I know that there is a WHOLE
lot for me to learn on rifles with boolits.

OTOH, I have just about gotten to the "RTFM!!" point with a small number of our newbies.
Computer folks will recognize the abbreviation.

Lots of newbies are really great, search the site and look and buy some books and READ THEM. Eventually ask some good solid questions.

Others seem really just lazy - 'Hey, how about some load data for a .38 Special or a
.308 Win?' Well, Hodgdon has a really great online site with this info and I have a
shelf full of books with that info. Why don't YOU? Haven't done that yet, but I sure
have been tempted a few times. I really value the civility of this site and that is one
of the things that makes me much less likely to say anything.

Bill

[cajun shooter]

Well first I would like to say that I was a POST certified firearms Instructor. In Louisiana that means that you were trained by instructors from the FBI, DEA, State Police, LSU and several different local police departments. It is a 2 week 12 hr days pass fail course. We started with 53 and graduated 22.In other words at different stages people were sent home. The reason I am stating this is that a few posters have grouped all instructors into one group. I have seen schools given where you attended one day and were given a certification the next. Maybe that is where some of your experts have come from. I have seen some of this type come from the NRA also. After a few years I was asked to help with the schools when they had new classes. I told all my students that there are certain rules that you use as a Police firearms instructor. They are
Never shoot in front of your students as in a contest to show how good you are.You can have a bad day and one of them will out shoot you
Never say that you never miss as in live fire you will look like a fool when you do
Never say that " YOUR WAY" is the only way
Give them more than one idea for doing things
Let them know that it is not practice that makes them better but perfect practice
Try to have them shoot a target that is not the standard B-27 but just a human outline
Always remember the old cowboy saying; There is not a horse that can't be rode and there is not a man that can't be throwed.

[RP]

Well thats why I always go with I dont know much but this is the way I do it and ask how do you do it. The best way for me is get alot of people to tell me take from each and come up with a way that works for me. New guy to reloading came to my house seen I had serveral presses and a fair amount of casting stuff and cooking up some lube. So he thinks I know alot about it which after finding this site I have learned I dont know as much as I should. After talking to him a few times and now he has hes press and dies just needing boolits I told him to stop by I give him some to get started. He started asking alot of questions that I myself dont know enough about to tell someone else. Stated serveral times to him that this is the way I do it and its working for me he kept asking like I did not want to tell him. Finally I looked him right in the eyes and said buddy just because I have alot of reloading stuff dont make me a pro it makes me conplusive or a horder not sure which. But I have to say this site has alot of guys that know alot and help alot and a few that just want to talk down to someone instead of picking them up.

[ole 5 hole group]

I told all my students that there are certain rules that you use as a Police firearms instructor. They are
Never shoot in front of your students as in a contest to show how good you are.You can have a bad day and one of them will out shoot you.



I guess I looked at it a little different. Once the skill was developed, never had a bad day, just some days were better than others. I always demonstrated in live fire what I was teaching, because if you didn’t some, if not most students, would wonder after talking the talk whether or not you could actually walk the walk. I showed them right up front what I could do and most were impressed while a few just gave you that smirk, as if to say, Ya, watch me – and we all had a great time and some of those smirky students were well rounded pistoleros just taking the course to get out of Dodge for a week and were certified gun powder junkies. It’s surprising what an instructor can learn from some of those “sleepers” in class. A few of us instructors would attend a couple “high profile” shooting schools just to learn different training methods and how they used their props – and of course during the session you could about guess who among the rest were also attending to learn a few “new” techniques to bring home. We would trade methods and discuss how we could make firearms training better over a case or two of brew every evening, as it just didn’t seem right to start the day off without a blasting headache, because after that, you knew the day just had to get better or you would have to die. Miss those days a lot.

[DIRT Farmer]

I hate to learn something new as it will open a whole area of ingorance I didn't know I had.

I spent a lot of years trying to learn flint shotgun. The part where the ignition needs to be very consistant to hit clay birds. I chased a lot of whirlwinds trying for fast reliable and repeteable results. Every flint shooter seemed to have at least two or more systems that worked. Finaly just started shooting a sensable system, and results improved.
There are a lot of experts, but watch a National Champion long enough and pick up on what they are doing.
I have tough black powder for around forty years. I may have enough backgroung to begin learning.

[SciFiJim]

I may have enough background to begin learning.

True words. I have gotten to the point that I know that there are things that I don't know that I don't know any thing about.

[Bret4207]

I hate to learn something new as it will open a whole area of ingorance I didn't know I had.



Wow, truer words were never spoken! That seems to happen to me nearly daily!

You really want to feel dumb- start looking into Constitutional studies where The Founders were referencing Cicero, Blackstone, the Old Testament, etc. It's not bad when they give you the quote and the context, it's when they speak in general terms of some ancient Greeks theory.......huh?

[casterofboolits]

I've always held the opinon that an expert was some one who didn't have all the facts.

I've been reloading since 1968 and casting since 1973 and have supplied millions of bullets to shooters. I was out of a regular job for nine months one time and my casting hobby allowed me to pay all the bills and no one went with out for that time. So I've had to put up with "experts" during that time. There's just no "win" in trying to change some "experts" concept of reality.

The only time I voice a hard opinion is when the "expert" is doing something that could result in harm to the "expert" or bystanders. A Cop buddy of mine is extremely fond of the phrase "Ya can't cure stoopid".

I just joined this forum and enjoy reading the threads as to how others do thier casting, smelting and acquire thier materials.

[Thumbcocker]

This thread is kind of related to why I quit subscribing to gunzines years ago. The peole who used to write articles actually wrote from experience. Now it seems most of the mainstream writers just regurgitate the same "facts" over and over. Hanloader and this site are my primary sources of information now. Those who post on a topic have done what they speak of, usually for many years, and speak from experience.

[bohokii]

well i have to agree with the moron cause my lead fouls my bore just like my dinner fouls my plate

i just clean it before i put it back in the cabinet

[Suo Gan]

I like it when I tell somebody about some shooting that I did and they say that it cannot be done because they tried it and could not do it.

Seems like I remember Kieth saying something like that.

[WILCO]

looking for books related to boolit casting. One vendor had lots and lots of books, I asked if he had any on casting lead boolits? He got pretty crappy with me and asked why I would want to cast lead boolits? I responded that I had a WWII battle rifle that I wanted to shoot lead with. He said to me very matter of factly that battle rifles have deep rifling and wouldn't do well with lead! Then he went on to warn me of all the health hazards and about a buddy of his who was burned and poisoned by working with lead. Told me I was wasting my time. My only reply to him was "Yes sir, thank you sir!" as I shook his hand. I looked back as I walked away and seen him standing with his arms folded and smug in the knowledge he'd just saved another shooter from himself.

[Forester]

There seem to be concentrations of these folks in a couple of places, gunshops and public shooting ranges. No surprise there I guess.

The gunshops I usually avoid anymore because I am typically looking for something specialized or specific, I go to a shop likely to have it, buy it or don't and try not to get into discussions with people who are not interested in listening long enough to get the whole story. Now there's a shop in town run in the basement of an old BR shooter, I go there and will stay for hours cause that guy knows his stuff when he talks about making a rifle shoot. A pistol, or cast lead questions,,,not so much.

The ranges are a different breed too. I have never once volunteered advice outside of a few sharp words when safety was about to become a large issue. But when I sit a target out and someone notices that what I am doing seems to work rather well I'm happy to talk. Likewise when I see someone doing something different, or much more effective than me I strike up a conversation if they seem willing. Try this, put an 8" plate out at 50 yards and just ring the snot out of it with your choice of open sighted handgun while others cant hit their target with a scoped rifle. The looks and questions start pretty quick at most of these places.

I am very much a "prove it" kind of person, I will gladly take advice and love to learn something new from someone who knows more than me on a subject. But they are going to have to prove, not just say that they know more. I'm happy as can be to have the same standard applied to me.

[alamogunr]

Just to add to the fire, the latest issue of Guns magazine(I get it by email) has an article by a well known writer on using cast bullets in handguns. The article started out sort of like this thread. He then went on to say "There are three reasons cast bullets lead bores: The bullet is too fast, too soft or doesn't carry enough lubricant." He then goes on to write a pretty good article with some good advice for non-casters. The "too soft" statement sort of fell in with some of the "conventional wisdom" that is prevalent out there.

The same issue has a different type of casting article by M. Venturino.

John
W.TN

[Beekeeper]

I have read this post with a lot of interest.
I am one of those new casters.
I have been loading J words for more than 40 years.
Well not all the time,as a sailor I had to choose between guns and family and family won out.
Well now I have taken up the hobby in a great way and this forum is the only place I go.
The knowledge level here (even for some of us newbees) is the highest of any forum around.
The folks here not only listen to your questions they try to help and not condem you for your stupidness.
I do not beleive " You can't fix stupid".
It always takes longer but it can be fixed.
The information I have gleaned from here in the last 2 years has helped me more than anyone here can ever beleive.
To all the membership I say " Thank You " for putting up with me and making this a great place.

Jim

[EMC45]

The more that are ignorant and refuse to see the light, no more lead and WWs for all of us. There is a bright side!!!!

[cbrick]

I do not beleive " You can't fix stupid". It always takes longer but it can be fixed. Jim

Stupid is either the inability or a refusal to learn. From very difficult to impossible to fix. The norm is that stupid is forever.

Ignorance is simply uneducated on a particular subject and easy to fix with the willing.

Rick

[Doc_Stihl]

Ignorance is simply uneducated on a particular subject and easy to fix with the willing.

Rick

Well put.

[Beekeeper]

whatever you say cbrick. You must be right you say it with such authority.
Maybe you fit the mould.

Jim

[geargnasher]

Stupid IS forever. That's what sucks about it. I've known some really nice, ambitious folks who were to dumb to tie their shoes, but were reasonably happy, productive, and easy to get along with.

I come from a family of teachers and have an inborn habit to stamp ignorance out everywhere I see it, even if I have to verbally smack down some pompous ignoramous who needs it. Problem is, it usually doesn't help.

Someone once said that life is too short to drink cheap booze and argue with stupid people, wish I could take that to heart sometimes!

Gear

[deerslayer]

Stupid is either the inability or a refusal to learn. From very difficult to impossible to fix. The norm is that stupid is forever.

Ignorance is simply uneducated on a particular subject and easy to fix with the willing.

Rick

I have always said ignorance is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results:bigsmyl2:

[EMC45]

I have always said ignorance is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results:bigsmyl2:

That's insanity........

[cbrick]

whatever you say cbrick. You must be right you say it with such authority. Maybe you fit the mould. Jim

Maybe I'm both Jim because I sure don't understand your post.

If you don't believe my description I invite you to look it up in the dictionary.

Rick

[RobS]

That's insanity........

Yes, it is, but it happens all the time. I work with junior college student/athletes and when they come in and sit down with me to discuss why they are failing they don't see that they need to make a change in what they are doing. I tell them that studying the night before has not worked for them............they look at me like a deer in the headlights. I then go on to tell them that what they are presently doing is not working out too well and ask them what they could do to make things better. Again, they look at me with a dumbfound look upon their faces so I continue to explain that studying at least a week in advance for a know exam will yield much better results.

Still with the civil meeting about what current grades are and what can be done to improve on them I will often times get a second grade check with poor marks. I bring them in a second time and ask how their new studying habits are going. 99% of the time they look down and say, "Coach I'm trying, really I am". I then ask when they started studying for i.e. their biology exam today. "Last night coach" is a common response.

Insane........yes!!!

I am as you can see a patient man and many times an individual’s inabilities can make another man weary. I always have hope for people, but sometimes hope is not enough.

[Beekeeper]

Then maybe you should read my post

[Molly]

Ask 'em out for a short plinking session. That REALLY shuts the bulk of them up. How often do you see a blabbermouth that can back up his words? I NEVER try to come across as an expert at anything. I know it will some day save me alot of embarrasment when I meet up with the person that knows more than I do...

I once came across a fellow in W. Va. who could shoot a penny out of the air about three times in five, using a .22 revolver. And the pennies were tossed up HIGH too!

Boy, was I glad I hadn't tried to come across as an expert!

[cbrick]

I have no idea what your bent out of shape over but in reality you have two choices . . . And only two.

1> Stay bent out of shape.

or

2> Get over it.

Rick

[Beekeeper]

I recon I will stay bent out of shape.
You see I was born stupid.
Parents were told I should be kept in an instutation for what little life I had.
That was in 1937 and it is now 2010 and I am still here.
During the interem years I worked in the oilfield as a deck hand and rigger from 14 to 18 , joined the Navy and stayed for 25 years .Went from seaman recruit to E8. Wore the star for 3 months and decided My kids needed me more than the Navy.
Worked for an Airline until they closed out my station and retired from them as well.
Started and ran a 1500 hive beekeeping operation until wifes health required us to move.
I don't know if I'm rich or not and don't care but if you will send me a $100 dollar bill i'm sure it will make me a millionare.You see when I worked on that oil rig I invested my pay in a gold mine in South America. They never found gold but did find copper <You know the company Annaconda Copper.
Not bad for someone who is stupid.

I believe the saying "stupid is as stupid does"
So if some of the so called experts need a little help with stupid give me a call but until I find out other wise the only real stupid ones are the ones who can't or won't see past the end of their noses and keep spouting the same old commedians by line "you can't fix stupid


Jim

[RobS]

cbrick and Beekeeper you two can settle your school yard BS via PM and save us all the bickering. Let this thread move on as you can surely see that both of your comments towards one another are not influential or contributing by any means to this tread...................come on gentlemen you both have something positive to give and let’s leave it at that.

[cbrick]

School yard BS??

I don't have clue what he's talking about or where he's coming from.

Rick

[JSAND]

I'm confused; is holding to a belief, that we feel is true, even if it is wrong what makes us stupid, or is it the defending or expressing that belief that makes us stupid? Until about 6 months ago I had never reloaded and I have been shooting for 30 years, until 3 months ago I had never fired a cast boolit in anything that I know of. I got into casting because I got into reloading. While ordering reloading supplies I noticed I could get lead boolits for about half the price of j-word. Then I got to thinking, if someone else could make them, surely I could make my own. Then I got lucky and found this site. I thank all who have patiently assisted me in my efforts. One year ago, had I been asked about shooting lead bullets in my 40 S&W, I would have probably laughed and said; that will ruin your barrel. I now know better, I shoot cast in every weapon I own and will never go back. I don't feel I have a right to label anyone who refuses to accept the fact that you can cast boolits, load them and shoot them without leading your barrel, just as, if not more accurately than j-bullets and do a lottttt more shooting for the same amount of money, stupid. They are certainly ignorant to the facts, but I will not argue with them about it, I am an A type personality myself, and have figured out that it is best for me to avoid those type of situations if at all possible. My guess why many posters on here do not try to enlighten the uniformed, its just not worth it.

[ole 5 hole group]

When one reads different posts on this forum & others you can get a sense of whether or not a guy is married and if so, for how long. For those of us who have been born married - we know the difference between stupid & ignorant and it's not much of a difference when trying to get a fact across to the other person. Just move on with a smile on your face because if you make any gestures out of frustration, you're in for another go around with the same result.

[Bret4207]

Just to add to the fire, the latest issue of Guns magazine(I get it by email) has an article by a well known writer on using cast bullets in handguns. The article started out sort of like this thread. He then went on to say "There are three reasons cast bullets lead bores: The bullet is too fast, too soft or doesn't carry enough lubricant." He then goes on to write a pretty good article with some good advice for non-casters. The "too soft" statement sort of fell in with some of the "conventional wisdom" that is prevalent out there.

The same issue has a different type of casting article by M. Venturino.

John
W.TN

Yup. completely ignore fit. Good idea Mr Gun Write.

In the words of Patrick F. McManus (IIRC) "A man that knows not that he knows not, is a not knows!"

[Bret4207]

When one reads different posts on this forum & others you can get a sense of whether or not a guy is married and if so, for how long. For those of us who have been born married - we know the difference between stupid & ignorant and it's not much of a difference when trying to get a fact across to the other person. Just move on with a smile on your face because if you make any gestures out of frustration, you're in for another go around with the same result.

Holy smokes! That right there is 90% of mankinds problems boiled down to a single paragraph!

Well done!