Best black powder used

[whitetailsniper]

Hi guys , id like to know in your thoughts,and exsperiances what black powder you have used,and like the best,, i have a ruger old army45 7 1/2 barrel,,,a t/c 54 cal renagade flawless,, my sons cva 44 black powder , i also own a few of thomspson encores,,209x50 rifle,and a 209x50 15 inch pistol.=i have yet to shoot the 209x50 pistol,or the 54 renagade, but planning on it soon. I hear people say pyrodex,,others say 777,,,goex,ect,,,but they dont say why,,, i have heard little but good things about swiss. Your thoughts---

[Hanshi]

I used Dupont until the plant was destroyed in the early 70s. Since then I've used Goex and Elephant. I've used much more Goex than anything else and use 3f for everything.

[frontier gander]

for inlines, Blackhorn209 .. Why? Ive shot 60 shots without ever swabbing the bore and never had a crud ring.

[roverboy]

I started out in the 80's shooting Pyrodex RS because thats what all my friends used. I tried a powder called Black Canyon that shot good but it didn't have a shelf life worth snot. If you shot a pound in a short time it was ok. Next I shot Goex 2f black for years. I shoot Hodgdon Triple 7 now. I like the Triple 7 a lot. But really Goex is some great powder.

[JeffinNZ]

Swiss is the best black powder you can buy hands down. I won't use anything else. Highest velocities per grain, cleanest burn.

[Lead Fred]

Been using Goex for decades, aint gonna stop any time soon

[Boondocker]

There is powder other than Goex, hmmmmmmm! :-?

[hamour]

Go to powder inc and order 25lbs of Goex or KIK (I like KIK, performs as good or better than Goex but cheaper)

https://www.powderinc.com/cgi-bin/bpstore/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=enter&thispage=order.htm&ORDER_ID=!ORDERID!

Both are great powders and give the best performance per price. Swiss is better performance but price is higher.

Any of the 3 listed are the only way to go. Subs are not comparable for longevity or ease of ignition.

[waksupi]

I had been using elephant until it went to the great elephant graveyard. I have been using Schutzen for the past few years. It seems to shoot moister, with less fouling than GOEX.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
GOEX... That is all I see anymore when I see any anymore up in the state of ILL..
My dad was real fond of Harvey´s... And then Dupont which I got to use. But back then I was not real concered with all that fine edge accuracy stuff.
Down here in Peru is a 3F type stuff that makes my 44-40 Winny SRC (1907) purr like a lion.

[yarro]

Swiss is the best for power and least amount of fouling. Have used a bunch of Schutzen in both cap guns and cartridge; currently it is all I have on hand. It is #2. Have shot Goex and Elephant too. Haven't personally tried KIK, but a buddy said it was better than Goex or Elephant.

-yarro

[Southern Son]

When I first started out with BPCR, I got some Swiss and it was great, now Swiss supplies have dried up in Queensland and it is any powder you like, so long as it is Wano FFg (every now and then we get some selection, and there is Wano FFFg on the shelf, too).

[missionary5155]

Greetings I took a look at Powderinc.com and they have been OUT of KIK since Dec... It was a good reasonable price also.

[JesterGrin_1]

Go to powder inc and order 25lbs of Goex or KIK (I like KIK, performs as good or better than Goex but cheaper)

https://www.powderinc.com/cgi-bin/bpstore/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=enter&thispage=order.htm&ORDER_ID=!ORDERID!

Both are great powders and give the best performance per price. Swiss is better performance but price is higher.

Any of the 3 listed are the only way to go. Subs are not comparable for longevity or ease of ignition.

It does show that they have 3 F in stock. Just not the 2 F.

[cajun shooter]

The reason that KIK is hard to find in stock is that the plant is closed and they are out of business. Powder Inc is selling off any left over stock not new powder received. Swiss is very clean shooting but cost on average $22 a pound. The Grafs' house brand is Wano that is made in Germany and it performs well. The Goex Cartridge will shoot almost as well as the Swiss and Goex Express for about $14 a pound. Some of the answers that were given say 777 and Pyrodex and Blackhorn 209 all of which are not BP at all. If you are going to shoot BP then stick with the real thing. Not a single want to be powder gives all the action of the real thing. I'm talking about the muzzle flash, sparkes and flames and the smell or "BOOM" Plus you can find deals on real BP in the $10 a pound if you do a buddy deal.

[stubshaft]

Cajun Shooter - I agree with you 110% that there is nothing as good a real Holy Black. HOWEVER, some of us live in areas where you cannot get any and are forced to use subs. I have a stash of 3F that is solely used for my rocklocks. In fact I have even been known to put a priming charge down the bore ahead of Pyrodex or T7 to stretch what little I have left. As far as the subs go I prefer Triple 7. I never got good accuracy in my guns shooting Pyrodex. I tried Clearshot when it came out and that was a joke. If you didn't shoot the whole can within a couple of weeks after opening it you could forget about any decent accuracy. It was very hygroscopic.

Triple 7 seems to give me good accuracy/velocity. Is very easy to clean up and is easily lit off. I tried some Blackhorn in my Renegade and it seemed to be a little harder to ignite (slight lag). Some sources say that is why it has the 209 in its name. Because it is supposedly made for inlines using a shotgun primer. Not to mention the fact that it sells for $42.00 for 10 ounces in my neck of the woods.

[DIRT Farmer]

I like the kind that goes bang when the flint strikes the frizzen. I have used what was cheepest in my shot guns for years. A case of 25 lb don't last long. As an observation, Some lots of pouder foul worse than others. I have had clean running bores with EL cheepo and had to put the barrels in the rain barrel during the days shoot. Same with the name brand stuff. If you get a clean running lot put it up for rifle, get more for the shotgun. I think some of the old girls will run on coal (wishful thinking)

When both of my sons were shooting out of my box we ( they could ) put a real dint in a case of pouder in a week, let alone shot and caps.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

All I've ever used is Goex because it is made in the US.

Sam :D

[PAT303]

When I first started out with BPCR, I got some Swiss and it was great, now Swiss supplies have dried up in Queensland and it is any powder you like, so long as it is Wano FFg (every now and then we get some selection, and there is Wano FFFg on the shelf, too).

There was some available at the nationals and the South Australians are importing it but it cannot be frieghted anywhere,pick up only. Pat

[NickSS]

I have used all of the BP that is/was available and I would rate them as follows: Swiss, Curtis and Harv, Schutzen, Dupont, Goex cartridge, Goex, Kix, and Elephant. I have not tried the newer Goex or WANO powders (Shutzen is made by WANO) I shoot mostly Shutzen for Cartridge Rifles and Goex for ML but when I run out of Schtzen it will be back shooting Goex until I run out. I have found that I can get the accuracy I want with any of the powders I have tried so I mostly shoot what I can get cheaper these days of being retired.

[wgr]

I had been using elephant until it went to the great elephant graveyard. I have been using Schutzen for the past few years. It seems to shoot moister, with less fouling than GOEX.

dimondback black powder is the same as elephant. made by elephant labled dimondback

[357maximum]

dimondback black powder is the same as elephant. made by elephant labled dimondback

actually it is made by diamondback on the very same machinery that used to make elephant, just in a different location.


From my hardrive...stolen from somewhere I cannot remember:

real mechanical black powder ... crafted with very special care ... beautiful consistent sized grains ... great flow when pouring ... burns super clean (shot 20 shots in a row myself many times without cleaning) ... and very well priced ... all in a handsome looking can too ... and with respect to what everyone is asking about ... yes, it is made in Brazil ... but this is not the old Elephant powder ... different location, different management, different staff ... now made by a major explosives manufacturer with a passion for things that go boom ..

[357maximum]

I can do all I do with goex or any of the REAL powders for that matter. I like wano(sheutzen) also but it is not made here so i am less apt to buy wano, but it does work well. My current batch of 3F (about 18lbs worth) is a blend of about 1/3 wano, 1/3 goex, and 1/3 homemade willer bp and I like the way it works alot.

[KCSO]

Schutzen right now but I have tested every powder I can get ahold of from 1880 period Dupont and Kings to the worlds worst powder... Meteor. The best I ever shot was old Curtis and Harvey and 10 test shots cost me $25. It shot a lot like modern schutzen in that it was moist and very consistant.

[iron brigade]

for inlines, Blackhorn209 .. Why? Ive shot 60 shots without ever swabbing the bore and never had a crud ring.

experiments have shown that the crud ring is caused by some 209 primers, not the powder. in the past i shot 777 in my cap locks and never had the crud ring thing with per. caps. real black is the way to go, if i coudn't get any i would use 777. just because the velocity was way higher than that of american pioneer.

[10 ga]

I'll go with JeffinNZ and say my favorite is Swiss. Have shot about all different kinds of BP that have been made since the 60s. Haven't tried any Diamondback and don't even know if they have it at "Back Creek" as I only get by there about once a year. If they have some I'll get a couple of # to try. My regular of Swiss for the rifles (especially if I'm hunting) and whatever is cheapest, bulk packed 5# in a paper bag KIK of late, for the muskets and shotguns and plinking with the kids. Of course a tube or 2 of the Rotweil caps in #11 and musket. 10 ga

[outsidebear]

www.jackspowderkeg.com
1-888-245-9631

Black powder, suitable for muskets and canon.
Check him out....

[outsidebear]

Manufactured for Jacks Powder Keg
by GOEX, Inc (LAAP)
Hwy 80 Gate 4
Area G-Minden. LA 71065

[northmn]

In some respects the "best" depends on application. Swiss is probably the "best" in that as stated it burns cleaner and has a bit more zip per grain. However, it cost half again more than other powders. In a shotgun I use GOEX the most as it is readily available and works. Clean burning is not as critical. For my 25 squirrel rifle I found that Graf's (it goes by Schuetzen also) burns cleaner and permits field use without a lot of cleaning. It does deliver the lowest velocity of the three over the chronograph, but not overly so. I was able easily load 5 shots in a row without wiping and it chronographed consistantly doing that. Swiss or GOEX for deer rifles where one shot is about it with Swiss giving the most velocity per grain. Swiss would be a definite advantage on a target range. My only complaint against Swiss is that it is about $22/pound compared to about $14 for Grafs and $15 for GOEX. GOEX is the dirtiest burning of the lot but does deliver good performance. I have to order in at least 4-5 pound lots so the extra cost does add up.

Northmn

[chief3]

I had a chance to test Swiss powder against GOEX a couple of days ago with a chronograph. Used a .38 cal flintlock ,35g. of ffg ,pillow ticking spit patch. Then after cleaning, 5 shots with Swiss, same components except the powder. Don't know what type, I was doing the test with another shooter and forgot to ask what granulation he was using.
Anyway, the GOEX gave 1420 fps the first shot and added 50fps or more each shot, ending up at 1800. Did not clean between shots.
The Swiss started out at 1930 fps and never varied more than 10 fps.
I was most impressed, but the price of Swiss powder and the fact that I have plenty of GOEX, means I will not be changing.

[chief3]

Just noticed that I miss typed , should have read FFFG on the GOEX load.

[northmn]

I had a chance to test Swiss powder against GOEX a couple of days ago with a chronograph. Used a .38 cal flintlock ,35g. of ffg ,pillow ticking spit patch. Then after cleaning, 5 shots with Swiss, same components except the powder. Don't know what type, I was doing the test with another shooter and forgot to ask what granulation he was using.
Anyway, the GOEX gave 1420 fps the first shot and added 50fps or more each shot, ending up at 1800. Did not clean between shots.
The Swiss started out at 1930 fps and never varied more than 10 fps.
I was most impressed, but the price of Swiss powder and the fact that I have plenty of GOEX, means I will not be changing.

When I chronographed I did get lower velocitites with the first shot, with all powders but after a couple of shots it tended to stabilize. I used either Crisco or Bore Butter for lubes. Results are results, but I wonder if the spit patch wasn't part of the difference. Back when I shot in matches I would usually fire off a "fouling" shot at a gong or something because the rifle seemed more consistant aftr fouling. For a hunting rifle I am beginning to think one may need to develop a "clean barrel" load. Either by using more powder for the first shot or cleaning the barrel between shots. On another dite when we mentioned this, another contributer mentioned that the barrels getting hotter can also cause variatons.
I have also had better luck with Graf's over GOEX for shot to shot consistancy when not wiping and Graf's is less expensive than GOEX. Also seems to have a little less oomph, but not a great difference.

Northmn

[chief3]

Northmn
I agree with what you wrote. Fouling shots and lube is the way to go. What we were doing was seeing if there was much differince between GOEX and Swiss powder.
I just happened to have the chronograph set up so we ran a very unscientific 10 shot test to see how much "hotter" Swis powder was. The big difference in fouling was the real supprise.

[northmn]

Your differences seem to agree with other findings from others that have chronographed. I ahve some Swiss 2f and can get about the same powere in my 54 with 10 grains less powder.

Northmn

[shdwlkr]

years ago I used both 2f and 3f found I could use 3f in everything so I do that now. I have used almost every kind of powder there is and can make any do what I want. I like real black when I can get it but will use what is available as there is no choice when you need powder you need powder.
Goex is my first choice in powder and then it goes to prodex RS and PS and then 777 used a swiss made powder years ago but once I could get American made I use that when I can get it.

[Southron Sanders]

Quality of powder in descending order:

1. Swiss (the best & very expensive)
2. Wano
3.Goex
4.Elephant (now out of business)
? Diamondback (this powder is being made in Brazil by a company that has made industrial explosives [dynamite, etc] for years. They purchased the old Elephant plant and moved the machinery into a new building several miles away.

I haven't had the chance to try Diamondback yet, but I guess that it will be pretty much like the old Elephant brand-but who knows. The Diamondback managers might just have decided to turn out a really good black powder.

Curtis & Harvey? The old Curtis & Harvey plant was located in Scotland and made fine quality black powder in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. After the Dupont plant blew up in the 1970's cans of Curtis & Harvey powder mysterously appeared on dealer shelves.

It was a good powder, but I understand it was made in Germany by WANO(?)

[cajun shooter]

I talked to the people at Diamondback Chemical . They of course are not going to say anything bad about the product they produce. But they did clear up some rumors that are going around with some being repeated in this thread. They are not the same people or company that made the Elephant powder. The Elephant company flooded and the owners decided that they would invest their time and money into another business that they also owned at the time. They sold off the equipment that was in the plant to the makers of Diamondback. Now if these people use the same methods and the same raw materials then we can expect the same results or at least close to. I did a test a month or so back between Swiss powder and Goex powder. I used 2 different Goex powders. The gun was a Uberti 44-40 and the distance was fifty yds. The Swiss 2F was the best group. The Goex Express was second and the Goex Cartridge was third but only one bullet from being as good as the Express. You also can not compare Swiss and Goex grain sizes. The Swiss 2F is the same grain size as Goex 3F. That is why you hear so many reports about how people are able to put more Swiss into a case. I just ordered some of the Diamondback powder so that I might do a test and have the info straight from the horses's mouth. Will let you know when it happens.

[cajun shooter]

Stubshaft, I live in Southern Louisiana where we have people receiving their mail by boat. If these people wanted to have some real BP they could have it. I would be willing to bet that some prisons have people who can get it. If you truly desire to shoot the real BP then you can. If you don't want to pay Haz-Mat or delivery fees then that is different. I had a lively conversation with Capt. Baylor a few weeks back on this very thing. He advocates the use of the subs and told me that he would have to drive to the other side of Houston to buy the real BP. If you want to have an excuse then you can find one. I drive a 5 hour trip to re-stock my supply. I am dedicated to the use of the real BP and not to make believes then go and print stories about how I like shooting the real thing.