obese boolits

[1stSkink]

I got to try out my Lee 2 cav 145g 40SW and 170g Lee TL 40SW 6 banger the other day. Dropped perfectly after cleaning and smoking with wood matches.

Put a thin coat of Rooster Lube on them and sized with a Lee sizer.

Sized .401 (I am glad, on account of me using a LW barrel that is finicky). Relubed with Rooster and let them sit for a few weeks.

Went to finally load them and the 145 g SWC weighed 160 g and the 170g Tl weighed 182 grains?!?!?

This is from straight WWs, water dropped.

Any help would be appreciated. I loaded up 30 of the 145g's (160g's) with 5.0g of W231 (between the 155 and 170 load data)

Why are they "obese"?

skink

PS I weighed some of the non lubed boolits and they weighed maybe a few 10th s of a grain less...

My 230g TL .45ACP boolits weigh around 225-228g, btw...

[wallenba]

How are you weighing them? Beam scale or electronic?

[1stSkink]

PACT II electronic scale. I checked the scale with the 20 and 30gr weights. The scale is on.

[Johnch]

Last time I looked Lee listed the TL as 175 gr
My standard lube 40 cal 175 comes out 183-4 gr after lubeing

I just use 180 gr jacketed load data and start tward the start load

I just use a low to middle jacketed load listed for a jacketed bullet of about the same weight

John

[wallenba]

If anything, they should weigh less than the published weight unless they are pure lead, as Lee bases their molds weights on a 10 parts lead 1 part tin mix, fairly heavy. Can you borrow another scale to recheck it? There might be something interfering with it. Is it under a flourescent lamp? They can sometimes reek havoc.

[mooman76]

There are allot of reports of the 40 cal. Lee bullets coming out big. Like 403 or so. Measure your unsized bullets and see if they are in fact big. If they are big, that's where your weight difference is. Sizing doesn't change the weight, it changes the diameter and pushes the lead down to make up for the size. I suspect this is the problem

[lwknight]

Lee bases their molds weights on a 10 parts lead 1 part tin mix, fairly heavy.
If this mold weight rating is fact then a nearly pure lead (same as wheel weights)
145 grain mold should cast about 152 and a 170 grain mold would cast 178 grains
because a 10 to 1 lead/tin mix is about 9% tin and would have a specific gravity of 10.80
and lead with 2 or 3 % antimony has a SG of 11.18

I think your scales are crazy!! Even a 10% tin mix compared to pure lead would have only a 5% increase in weight.

[sagacious]

LEE says their molds are calibrated on a 1:10 Sn:Pb alloy... but one should expect some variance.

Another poster related that his 145gr mold cast 12grs heavy. That's almost identical to your results-- and that thread title is also almost the same as yours. This sort of thing is par for the course. Just use loading data appropriate for the as-cast weight.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=79782&highlight=LEE+1%3A10

[miestro_jerry]

I never take the mold makers word for weight, I always try the mold out and make notes.

If your bullets are Obese, they may develop Type II Diabetes unless you shoot them up real fast.

Jerry

[dromia]

There are allot of reports of the 40 cal. Lee bullets coming out big. Like 403 or so. Measure your unsized bullets and see if they are in fact big. If they are big, that's where your weight difference is. Sizing doesn't change the weight, it changes the diameter and pushes the lead down to make up for the size. I suspect this is the problem


Ditto, measure your as cast boolits diameter.

[Bret4207]

As Jerry and Dromia say, measure and weigh your boolits no matter who made the mould. No two people will have exactly the same alloy- your straight WW and mine will differ because I skim less or you skim more and added tin or I added lead or antimony enrichment material or, in my case, because I'm still using 30-40 year old WW. We aren't dealing is lab grade alloys here.

Use what you've got, learn what it'll do. Chances are it'll work fine for you.

[shootinxd]

I have the same 2 molds.My 175 casts at 179-180 just last saturday.My 145 cast 157-160.

[Hickory]

I read in a magazine years ago that most boolit moulds were cut to cast a boolit at the weight listed with Lyman's #2 alloy.
By adding antimony and tin (to W_W or PB) you can reduce the weight of the boolit.
Remember, lead is not only heavier than antimony & tin, but the antimony & tin will displace the volume of lead. Causing the boolit to be lighter.:coffee:

[shootinxd]

I thought that sounded very familiar!

[pdawg_shooter]

My Lee 203gt FPTC drops at 241 with WWs. So? Where is the problem? If you jest cant stand it have a little milled of the mould.

[lwknight]

All my Lee molds so far cast only about 1 to 2 grains heavy. I mostly use 92-2-6 alloy.
I cast some 40-1 for paperpatching in my 44mag 240 grain and they cast only 2 to 3 grains heavier than the 92-2-6 at about 245 grains

[David2011]

Most of my molds make a heavier boolit than the manufacturer says. My preferred alloy is 20 lb WW and 8 oz monotype.

The Lee 6 cavity 401-175-TC that I use is making boolits about .007" oversize and 181-182 grains.

With the same alloy the Lyman 401638 .40 cal mold casts about .005 larger than the finished size at a pretty consistent 178.5 grains. To meet the IPSC power factor I want to get as close to 180 as I can. The Lyman mold is so much nicer to use than the Lee there's no comparison.

David

[NSP64]

There are allot of reports of the 40 cal. Lee bullets coming out big. Like 403 or so. Measure your unsized bullets and see if they are in fact big. If they are big, that's where your weight difference is. Sizing doesn't change the weight, it changes the diameter and pushes the lead down to make up for the size. I suspect this is the problem

That, I am glad for . My barrel slugged .402. I had some PMC FMJ loads that shot all over the place. Pulled a few bullets....399!

[1stSkink]

Thanks for the replies! I checked the scale with the weights and against my powder thower that consistantly thows 5.0g of W231. I even unplugged it and let it restabilize. No change, I think the scale is on.

So the next 2 questions I have are:

1.
Do I use cartridge recipes for the given wt of the boolit (145g)? This may have something to do with the bearing surface.

or the weight thrown (160g)?

I loaded 30 with 5.0g of W231 as this was medium for a 155g and low for a 170g bullet.

2.
Does anyone have or know where I can get load data for 180g .40SW using W231?

Thanks again,
skink

[MtGun44]

Try Hodgdon Powder's online free data. They distribute Hodgdon, Winchester and
IMR powders and have all the data online.

Great resource.

Bill

[sagacious]

Do I use cartridge recipes for the given wt of the boolit (145g)? This may have something to do with the bearing surface.
or the weight thrown (160g)?
Always load for the actual weight.


Does anyone have or know where I can get load data for 180g .40SW using W231?

Thanks again,
skink
Unfortunately, the online Winchester/Hodgdon data source doesn't appear to offer lead data for the 40SW. You can email Winchester to request lead-load data for your bullets, if they have it.

Really, the weight disparity between a 155gr lead bullet and your 160gr bullet, and a 175gr lead bullet and your 180's is very small. That's only about a 2 or 3% weight difference. In this case, that's so small that it's not likely to be meaningful as pertains to load recipes.

You may wish to simply begin with the 155gr start data for your 160's, and the 175gr start data for your 180's. To be rigorous, one might reduce the recipe 2% from the max powder charge, which would be 0.1gr on a 5.0gr powder charge. Good luck.