Parker hale 1853 rifles

[Frank46]

Ok its me again. Still working on my 60 birthday present. Was looking at the navy arms web site and in particular the parker hale 3 and 4 band enfield rifles. To be honest I think they look way better than the pedersoli 1861 springfield rifles. Does anyone have any experience with either the 3 or 4 band rifles. Would prefer the 3 band, so if anyone has any comments good or bad fire away. Thanks, Frank

[Buckshot]

..............Frank that would be 2 or 3 band. If marked Parker-Hale these would be the 2nd generation muskets. Barrels made by P-H and so marked, but assembled in Italy. The barrels are of outstanding consistant quality.

Of the 2 band Enfields listed as P-H my suggestion would be the P58 Naval Pattern. These have the heavier Naval barrel walls to support the Navy cutlass bayonet, and the heavy bbl aids accuracy. Plus they are 48" twist with 5 lands and grooves and also progressive depth grooves.

The 3 band is the infantry rifle with 3 lands and grooves, progressive depth grooves and 72" twist.

Both my P58 and Whitworth are 2nd gen rifles and the quality on both is high although not as nice as a true British made 1st gen Parker-Hale. Problem is these 1st gen rifles have achieved collector status, and their used price reflects it.

Both rifles with the P-H bbls are exceedingly accurate and the 48" twist of the P58 allows you to utilize heavy Minie' boolits just as well as the lighter target versions. I have a 580gr 58 cal Pritchit Minie' I'd use against a deer at 200 yards if I was positive of the range and had a rest.

http://www.fototime.com/5F6577CC6F0A3D7/standard.jpg

1st 5 rounds fired in the Burrito match, offhand 50 yards. Lee Target Minie' and 45grs of Elephant 3Fg.

http://www.fototime.com/CDB038C49F3AC2A/standard.jpg

The 2nd 5 rounds. While not as pretty as the first it still totaled a 91-2X. Groups off the bench can cut just a big fat hole for 5 rounds.

Shooting off the bench at 200 yards is fun. If there is a slight breeze to wift the smoke off you can watch the big ole slug drifting along out to the target :-)

.....................Buckshot

[Frank46]

Buckshot, thanks for the info. Musta been half asleep when I mentioned te barrel bands. I'm quite sure the 2 band one is the one I want. They aren't exactly cheap but since this for a good cause (me) I figgure what the heck. Lyman makes a minnie bullet mold for the parker hale so maybe I'll start with that one first. If they are like anthing like the origional P53 that came out of nepal I'm hooked. Saw one that had been truely cleaned up and it was in real nice shape. Course I missed out on one of those. Still think these are better deals. Frank

[shooter575]

Framk46,Here are a few links for repop Enfield info

http://www.civilwarguns.com/board/index.php?forum=1&topic=379

http://www.lrml.org/parkerhale/index.htm

http://www.n-ssa.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3930

http://www.n-ssa.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3167

http://www.n-ssa.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3264

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/musketry/enfieldmanagement.htm

[Frank46]

Just got my baloon shot down. Received an e-mail from navy arms as they are out of stock and won't be getting any 1858 parker hale 2 band muskets in until maybe october. Dixie gun works gets way more for their 1858's than navy arms. Anyone have any suggestions as to where to shop around??. This is starting to look like a quest for the holy grail. Frank

[Buckshot]

..................If Navy Arms will take an order for one to arrive in October, order one. October will be here before you know it. In the meantime you can accumilate a mould, maybe a couple spare nipples (Ampco beryllium/copper), a mainspring, spare trigger, nipple wrench, range rod and bore guide, some nylon bore brushes, a couple bore mops, ball worm, patch jag, etc.

...............Buckshot

[Frank46]

Buckshot, I had sent them an e-mail and they said to check back with them in october as that was when they said their next shipment would be coming in. Won't hurt to ask. I already have the lyman PH mold on order (backordered from midway) and will be accumulating some of the other stuff. Where would one get the spare parts such as the mainspring, trigger?, probably need some kind of tool to compress and remove the mainspring while I'm at it.
Shooter575, thanks for the various web sites, spent a lot of time this am looking for info on them. I have the classic arms magazines from 1996 that had some really good info about the 1858 PH enfields. Thanks guys, Frank

[floodgate]

Frank:

"probably need some kind of tool to compress and remove the mainspring while I'm at it."

There's a neat little tool called a mainspring vise you can get from any of the BP / ML suppliers (try Buffalo Arms or Track of the Wolf); I used to get these from Bannerman's back in the '50's for $1.00 each - still have a couple. You CAN remove the mainspring by cocking the lock to compress it and slipping a 6" crescent wrench over the spring; de-cock and lift the spring out. But if it slips, you will INSTANTLY convert your V mainspring into a couple of flat springs. Been there; done that.

floodgate

[AkMike]

Try DGW for that front loader. Navy's not the only game in town!

[shooter575]

Frank,Here is another idea if you are looking for a step up shooter.
http://www.jamesriverarmory.com/. These are all N-SSA aprovedI have seen their muskets at their booth at the N-SSA nationals.Some nice stuff. Barrels are rifled by Bobby Hoyt in Pa.Come with a tall front sight dovetailed for windage adgustments. Rich Cross mills the sights.US walnut stocks.Locks are tuned.They cost a bit more but it was for yourself was it.They have parts also.
Buddy just bought the Whitney militia rifle.Real nice model.

[Frank46]

AKMIKE, yeah dixie gets $950 versus about $830 for the same rifle. Thats a lot of powder and lead that can be bought with the extra money. Thanks for suggesting them to me, Frank

[Frank46]

shooter575, thanks for the web site. I have my heart set on the ph 1858 2 band. I guess as I grow older I get more narrow minded. Who me?, not I. Frank

[Buckshot]

................You can get the mainspring and sear from Dixie. Only reason I mention them is that you might like to thin the issue one to ease the pressure a bit, and also do some sear work. I know I said trigger in my other post but I meant the sear where it bears on the tumbler. As they come the spring is hellacious powerfull. While you do need some effort to accelerate that big hammer, one that is too heavy causes trigger pull issues and batters the hammer nose and nipple for no good reason.

The sear spring should also be thinned. If you have a Dremel and some Cratex abrasives, polish all the bearing surfaces where parts rub each other and apply some moly grease.

Also remove the barrel bands and barrel. Then lay the barrel back in the stock and insert just the tang screw, and screw it down tight. If the muzzle of the barrel lifts away from the stock you need to remedy it. If the tang without the screw sits flush with the shape of the stock, use bedding compound under it. If the tang is proud of the stock without the screw, you'll need to bend the tang down until it matches, then bed under it .

..................Buckshot

[Frank46]

Buckshot, I have the origional 1996 articles from the british magazine "Classic Arms", they mention similar problems. In fact if my memory is still working they suggested using pieces of brown paper bags as shims. I've also been looking at some various british web sites for information. Hopefully in the morning I'm gonna make a run to the local scrap yard and see if I can get some lead. All I have at present is wheel weights. Now I gotta get another pot to melt the lead in for bullets. Think this project is starting to take on a life of its own. Thanks, Frank

[Frank46]

Have a question, been looking at the dixie catalog. Front sight on the 1858 2 band enfield looks kinda short. The witworth and volunteer rifles have a much higher front sight. I'm not sure but I believe someone mentioned about installing a taller front sight. Not having seen one of these rifles do they have removable front sight inserts or are they all in one piece. Thnaks, Frank

[Buckshot]

Have a question, been looking at the dixie catalog. Front sight on the 1858 2 band enfield looks kinda short. The witworth and volunteer rifles have a much higher front sight. I'm not sure but I believe someone mentioned about installing a taller front sight. Not having seen one of these rifles do they have removable front sight inserts or are they all in one piece. Thnaks, Frank

.............They're your standard rifled musket front sight. Little blade on a block soldered to the barrel for the 2 and 3 bands rifles. The Whitworth and Volunteer front sights are hooded beads on a post. They're in a dovetail on the barrel. They can be swapped out for insert type sights.

.................Buckshot

[Frank46]

Buckshot, thanks for the heads up on the 1858 sights. Hey if you have a barnes and noble in your area try to get the latest issue of "classic arms and militaria". They have a good article on the comblain (spelling?) rifles and carbines. I seem to remember you having something like that. Frank