Primer question

[nonferrous]

Just a quick question regarding the difference between Small Rifle primers and Small pistol magnum primers. Do they have about the same brisance?
Thanks

[jdgabbard]

Well, honestly I'm not sure I know for sure. But here are the two things I've heard.

1) Magnum primers have a longer lasting, hotter burning "flame" to them. Which helps to ignite slow burning powders.

2) Magnum primers also have some kind of metallic oxide in the paste used. This is to "spark" if you will, and help ignite the powder.

Now I've always been skeptical of #2, but #1 makes sense.

[Shiloh]

There was post on different primers. Primed cases fire from rifles and handguns. There was a noticable difference in flame. I'm sorry that I cannot find it for you.

Shiloh

[ETG]

I also think rifle primers are harder than pistol primers.

[nonferrous]

Thanks for the replys.
I am going through my stash of primers loading a lot of .38 Spl. target loads, (about 850 fps). I have been using up a brick of small rifle primers and am getting to the end of my SP's as well. The small rifle seem to group ok, next up is a few 1000 sp magnum's that I have in stock. I have had an order in to Mid-South since the first of the year for sp's but none so far. The small rifle seem to be working out at 50 ft. so if they are not too diff from the mags, I will get into them next. Gotta keep shootin.
Thanks

[shooter93]

Google and try to find articles by Mic Mcpherson and/or Charlie Dell. Both did extensive research and have very good explanations of all the different primers both in size and company. I have the articles somewhere but it might take a lifetime to find them again.

[southpaw]

Isn't there a couple thousandths difference in the depth aswell?

[shotman]

I dont think you can tell on the SP /SR the depth is the same the rifle tend to be harder and will miss fire in a striker type pistol I use the rifle in pistol but drop 1gr on the powder I bought a large lot of the SR cheap so I use them. But most are shot in a S&W wheel gun.
the large pistol and large rifle will not interchange rifle is about .005 taller and will bind a close wheel gun and may chain fire in an auto

[nonferrous]

Thanks again,
I was able to find some bits on primers by Mic Mcpherson but he seems to favor low power primers for mid range revolver loads and cautions against using non recomended primers in loads.

[fredj338]

Think of the powder charges for most small rifle vs small pistol, my money is on the SR primer being significantly hotter as well as slightly thicker cup.

[WARD O]

Rifle primers are deeper/taller than pistol primers. I don't know the exact amount but it is true!

Ward

[Rocky Raab]

I think that's true only for Large primers, Ward.

[lwknight]

Rifle primers are deeper/taller than pistol primers. I don't know the exact amount but it is true!

Ward
At least it is not enough difference to cause problems in the primer feed tools.

[blackthorn]

SAAMI specifications on primers and primer pockets per "Sinclair International's Precision Reloading & Shooting Handbook" 10th edition 1999

Depth Diameter
Min. Max Min. Max
Small rifle primer pocket 117 123 1730 1745
Small pistol primer pocket 117 123 1730 1745
Large rifle primer pocket 125 132 2085 2100
Large pistol primer pocket 117 123 2085 2100

Height Diameter
Min. Max Min. Max
Small rifle primers 115 125 1745 1765
Small pistol primers 115 125 1745 1765
Large rifle primers 123 133 2105 2130
Large pistol primers 115 125 2100 2120

[felix]

The cup material specs have changed to meet military specs in those production lines for military contracts. This happened about five years ago. Federal, for sure, converted one or more of their lines. ... felix

[cbrick]

At the bottom of this page is SAAMI specs for primer pocket depth.

Primer chart (http://www.lasc.us/primerchart.htm)

Rick

[Suo Gan]

Gussy did this http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm

[truckmsl]

Small rifle primers combined with a fast powder (WST) add about 50 fps to my target loads through a glock 35 in .40, as well as 38 special through a S&W combat masterpiece, and work flawlessly. I even have a reduced force striker spring in the glock and no misfires after many 10's of thousands of rounds. I'm curious to know if small rifle primers will consistently ignite 357 magnum loads of 296 - will be testing soon.

[prs]

Way way back I recall CCI providing information to the effect that their primers had an additive that carried hot particles to the powder flakes, granules, etc and that this material stick to the powder to assure quick ignition. I don't think it was metalic, but rather a ceramic or silica type of thing. It may also have been inreference to shotgun primers, just to far back to recall. I also believe the rifle primers are harder.

prs

[Moonie]

It is my understanding that cup thickness is the same between CCI SR and SPM primers. I haven't pushed max loads but moderate rifle loads with SPM primers have shown no pressure issues and I have had no blown or pierced primers in my AR-15.

I had a brick of almost 1K CCI small pistol magnum primers and nothing I load uses them. They were fine in my 6.8 with 29gr H4895 and while this is listed as a maximum load in a SAAMI chamber I have the SPECII chamber which lowers pressures quite a bit.

[parrott1969]

Too many rumors and not enough facts.
This applies to Remington, Wolf, Tula, and Winchester.
Also, large rifle may be a wild card so use caution.


The only difference between their magnum and standard primers is cup thickness. The priming compound is the same, IT IS NOT HOTTER!. Wolf used to tell you to use magnum primers for 223 to prevent slam fires.

CCI uses both a thicker cup and a different mix for magnum primers.

Federal and Magtek, I know nothing about.

If you doubt the following statement go to your local component supplier and pickup a box of remington 1 1/2 primers. Now read the box. On the side, in small print you will see a disclaimer the reads "Not for use in 40 S&W, 357 mag or other high intensity catridges". They tell you to use 5 1/2 primers (magnum) for these cartridges.

Before the flaming starts do a little research. I deal in facts not what someone's brother in law says. As the saying goes " Don't bring a knife to a gun fight".

[Bwana]

Back in the "old days" (1960s/1970s) when they actually wrote informative articles in the gun mags, there were several good articles about primers. The "facts" are these: Magnum primers have more compound and or a powdered metal, generally aluminum, to increase the amount of flame and the temperature of the flame.
The cup thickness does not change between specific types. Now the Rem 7 1/2 has a thicker cup but it is not considered a "magnum" primer. CCi's military spec primers are harder and have the "magnum" charge.
I use Win small pistol mag primers on all of my small pistol loads: 25acp, 32acp,380acp,9mm,38spl,357mag,40S&W. You do have to lower the charge weight to compensate for the greater ignition. In 125PF 9mm and 40S&W loads this amounts to about 0.2grs.
The use of the WSPM primers results in lower SD and better accuracy. It also helps with any lube that may be on the bottom of the cast bullets. This isn't the reason I use them in the 380,32, and 25. I use them in those rounds as it is what I have and is easily adjusted for.

[Mal Paso]

Too many rumors and not enough facts.


Ain't that the truth. I suspect Federal 150 Large Pistol Primers are just as hot as 155 Magnum Large Pistol but don't have the equipment to prove it. I'd like to ask Federal but they don't take questions.

[fredj338]

Thanks for the replys.
I am going through my stash of primers loading a lot of .38 Spl. target loads, (about 850 fps). I have been using up a brick of small rifle primers and am getting to the end of my SP's as well. The small rifle seem to group ok, next up is a few 1000 sp magnum's that I have in stock. I have had an order in to Mid-South since the first of the year for sp's but none so far. The small rifle seem to be working out at 50 ft. so if they are not too diff from the mags, I will get into them next. Gotta keep shootin.
Thanks
I would say no. The rifle primers are going to run hotter/longer flame duration. I have a test link w/ some photos I'll try to find. I would not use rifle priemrs in place of pistol primers w/o a severe evaluation of the load.

[parrott1969]

Bwana, you are incorrect. This horse has been beaten to death. The facts are, remington, winchester, wolf and tula use the same type and amount of priming compound in both magnum and standard primers. The difference is in the cup thickness. If you had taken the time to read carefully you would see that CCI uses a different "hotter" compound and thicker primer cups in their magnums. And if you had read carefully you would have also noticed that there is a quote from remingtons 1 1/2 primer box that says not for use in high intensity cartridges. Next time you are at your suppliers shop pickup a box of remington 1 1/2 and look at the side panel. In very small type you will see something that will suprise you.

OH, welcome to the 21'st century. LOL

[fredj338]

Small rifle primers combined with a fast powder (WST) add about 50 fps to my target loads through a glock 35 in .40, as well as 38 special through a S&W combat masterpiece, and work flawlessly. I even have a reduced force striker spring in the glock and no misfires after many 10's of thousands of rounds. I'm curious to know if small rifle primers will consistently ignite 357 magnum loads of 296 - will be testing soon.
That means it's adding pressure as well. Just keep that in mind when running the top end. I am sure the rifle primers will be hot enough for 357mag loads & slow powders.

[nanuk]

....The facts are, remington, winchester, wolf and tula use the same type and amount of priming compound in both magnum and standard primers. The difference is in the cup thickness. .


Parrott: so, does the magnum have thicker, or thinner cups?

if the compound is the same, and Magnum have thicker cups, would that lead to LESS "Fire" and the magnum is just to contain the pressure?

does your above statement apply to ALL varieties of primers within the individual companies?