LBT 458 350GC M wont fly

[charger 1]

Man oh man we've tried sizing this to everything from 458-461,every kind of lube,cast in every conceivable hardness. Will not group out of a marlin 95 45/70 which we're told its meant for.I mean 3" bench groups at 50. What I dont get is that it only has 1 1/4 grease grooves. I mean one real one and a little one above GC. and about half bore contact. Ordered this from LBT on the word it was the baby
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Chargerdive/HPIM0772.jpg

[David R]

Did you try different seating depths?

David

[charger 1]

Did you try different seating depths?

David

No only to the crimp groove for tube mag

[Bass Ackward]

I have a 375 grainer that finds it's way down range. Are you getting any sort of groups and the fliers open things up or just crappy altogether?

How hard you makin these and what powder speeds you crankin?

[charger 1]

I have a 375 grainer that finds it's way down range. Are you getting any sort of groups and the fliers open things up or just crappy altogether?

How hard you makin these and what powder speeds you crankin?

All over the paper like fly sh1t,42 grs of H4198 makin 1925 fps,20 bn

[45 2.1]

All over the paper like fly sh1t,42 grs of H4198 makin 1925 fps,20 bn

Wrong powder!

[charger 1]

Wrong powder!

Right powder??

[45 2.1]

Right powder??

Lots of guys use IMR 3031. Work up, don't try for top end all at once.

[Rick Hodges]

Charger 1,

I load a MM 375 gr. GC in my Marlin 45-70. I couldn't get H-4198 to shoot worth a darn. IMR 3031 shot well, but was dirty. I found H-322 to be the ticket for me.

Rick

[Bass Ackward]

All over the paper like fly sh1t,42 grs of H4198 makin 1925 fps,20 bn


Charger,

You may not have enough rifling height to run those velocities with a bullet with a smaller bearing area. While one gun might do it, another will not.

Bob told you to try 3031 and that is OK, but I think your best advice from him is going to come from starting slower and work up. The secret to cast is always to use a logical step by step process changing one variable at a time and you will eventually find success. If you jump around, it will be too hard to keep track of what you tried when and you can pass the holly grail.

[charger 1]

3031 is something I dont have. Wonder about H335

[BABore]

3031 is something I dont have. Wonder about H335


Probably a little slow. BenchMark, H322, Reloder 7, AA2230 will all work well. XMP 5744 and SR 4759 if you want to start low and work up. I really like H322 for top end loads. Reloder 7 has a real wide range to work within.

Might want to look at your chronograph numbers and watch the ES. Play with the seating depth and keep an eye on your spread. The bullet I had MM do for my 450 Marlin gave me similar fits at the beginning. Going from a COAL of 2.513 to 2.505 took the ES from the mid 40's to single digits. Group size went from 1 3/4-2 1/2 down to 1-1 1/4". This was with H322 and Fed. 210M's. I'm still having some fits trying to get groups smaller than that, and better consistency.

[Bullshop]

You might try using just straight ACWW. May compress a bit more than the harder alloy and hold the groove better. Hard is seldom the fixall some think it is.
BIC/BS

[Bucks Owin]

I've found SR-4759 to work well in any straight walled case I've used it in...

FWIW,

Dennis

[Johnch]

I love AA 5744 in the 45/70
Will not produce top velocities , but I normaly get my best groups with it .

I would start with 31 gr and work up slowly , with a max of about 35 gr

Johnch

[Larry Gibson]

All over the paper like fly sh1t,42 grs of H4198 makin 1925 fps,20 bn

As mentioned; wrong powder, to fast for that bullet and maybe just to fast for the alloy. 3031 is a decent powder as is 5744, 4579 and 41 98 if you back off on it. If you want to use 4198 start at 30 gr and work up (3 shot groups will tell the tale) until the group act like fly sh*t again. Or do the same with 3031 starting at 35 gr. For example I recently ran a test on some commercial 400 gr bullets in my siamese Mauser 450-400-70 (45-70). In working up 43 gr of milsurp 4895 gave excellent sub 2'" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. With 45 gr of the 4895 the groups opened to 6+" groups. That load had exceded the ability of the alloy. Though tis test was with PB bullets the principle is the same with GC bullets. If you are looking for accuracy I'd suggest starting low and working up. If you don't get the accuracy at the velocity your rifle is capable of the a slower powder (3031 or 4895) and harder alloy is needed. Keep experimenting, you'll get there.

Larry Gibson

[charger 1]

Its funny though ,my other WFN LBT cant eat too much 4198

[Bass Ackward]

Its funny though ,my other WFN LBT cant eat too much 4198

Sometimes!

My grandmothers favorite line was, "a person never knows."

[4060MAY]

My grandfather use to say "yeah that's what I thought"

[threett1]

I have good groups with aa2230c, 45gr under a Lyman 457122. Runs about 340gr with straight ww. Goes 1450-1500fps. All the recoil I want and does an admirable job on deer.

[charger 1]

Its funny though ,my other WFN LBT cant eat too much 4198

And to the point where depending on the barrel length and shooter we're whippin em down range at 2150 and into 1.5" at 220 yards...and my gun has over 300 of them through and is fine

[PatMarlin]

My Grandfather used to say "People in hell want ice water"... Bwaahaaa LOL!

My cast loads so far in the guide gun work best with H322 (fastest velocity) and Mil Surp 4895, with the OAL length set as far out as it can cycle. ACWW.. :drinks:

[Haywire Haywood]

A buddy of mine says "Hard to say without knowing." He's a nut.

[drinks]

I am having good results with WC 844/ H 335 in .45-70, using a 320gr gc with water cooled WWs . Basically, a case full, up to the bottom of the bullet.
55gr with a small dacron wad is my best compromise, 1750fps, 1" at 50 yds and a comfortable recoil level.
64gr, 2040fps, is a bit better, about 3/4" at 50 yds, but is starting to make me slobber on the stock.
This is in a Handi rifle.