Cast boolits dirty?

[Brick85]

I was at an IDPA shoot for the first time the other day, and one fellow mentioned that lead bullets make a lot of smoke, and I wouldn't be making any friends shooting them at the indoor range, with the kind of volume of fire that IDPA generates. He said everyone there shoots condom loads (and from what I saw, it was true, even though most everyone there reloads).

Are all boolits smokier than j-words? Is it possible to make a very clean-firing, non-smoky boolit? I say this having never loaded up a smokeless cast boolit yet; all my meager casting experience has been for BP. The commercial-cast bullets I've used haven't been very smoky, but they were a little smokier than condom loads. Probably mostly a matter of the lube used, I'd think?

[MT Gianni]

Alox lube smells bad to some, myself included. FWFL or many others do not. You will hear many more "facts' by uninformed experts.

[ANeat]

I would tell em to take up a collection if they wanted me to shoot jacketed.

Load up some BP cartridge loads for an IDPA match

[Brick85]

BP loads for IDPA would be hilarious. "See, I made my own cover! Now I'm reloading!"

I'd also be tempted to bring in throwing knives; faster than a reload.

[Mk42gunner]

BP loads for IDPA would be hilarious. "See, I made my own cover! Now I'm reloading!"

I'd also be tempted to bring in throwing knives; faster than a reload.

Technically that would be concealment. It would be funny though.


Robert

[303Guy]

You can get rid of the smell of lube by using wool wads under the boolits.[smilie=1:

Is it actually legal to have an indoor range without ventilation fans that would prevent lead fumes (and any other fumes) from reaching the shooters?

[Bret4207]

Tell him you're there to shoot, not make friends. There are plenty of jacketed loads that produce dirt and smoke, some less than others.

[Chunky Monkey]

I shoot IDPA with my cast 9mm and 45 acp loads. I use several powders and lube with LARS carnuba red. Mine are a little smoky but not excessive. No one complains to me about it. Sounds like a bunch of gun snobs to me! I'd just tell them that that you shoot all year on what they spend on one match! ;-)

One month each year we hold our IDPA match and night and everyone shoots using a flashlight. I 've learned not to shoot cast boolits at night using a flashlight (like shooting in a bar room). I do put together some 'condom' loads for that shoot.

Shoot what you want and to hell with them!!

[qajaq59]

I'm with Bret on this one. If the guy doesn't like the smoke he can move up wind from you.
Some people just like to complain. We had a guy at the county range one day that complained to the manager that it was too noisy. The manager gave him back his money and told him to go home where it would be quiet.

[NSP64]

One month each year we hold our IDPA match and night and everyone shoots using a flashlight. I 've learned not to shoot cast boolits at night using a flashlight (like shooting in a bar room).

I used to practice shooting my .45 auto at night using a flashlight. You shoot em slow enough and you can see the light reflect off of the bottom of the boolit as it goes down range. I'll have to try it with this new stinger led light I have, It's got the pulse setting.

[NSP64]

I'm with Bret on this one. If the guy doesn't like the smoke he can move up wind from you.

LLa tumble lubed can smoke. You might try to get the slot/lane closest to the fan.

[sqlbullet]

I too have found LLA to be smokey. Felix I don't notice the smoke at all.

[mdi]

It ain't the lead that smokes! It's the lube (mostly) and the powder. I been playin' with homemade lubes for a while now and find some ingredients will smoke more than others, but Alox seems to be the smokiest...

[mpmarty]

Tell the ******* to hold his breath!

[jimmeyjack]

Sorry, but it is their indoor range and can run it like they want.
Now, I have reduced the smoke considerably by simply uping the powder charge a little at a time until I get where I want. I find a good charge of tightgroup worked wonders on smoke control. don't know why but it just works.

[Fly]

I should not say this, but if he would have said that to me,I would have cut off a big fart.

[geargnasher]

Several years ago I was shunned off of an IDPA match because my FMJ reloads were in question. Not that they didn't have enough suds, just that the SOs and RO were paranoid on principle. I guess they had been burned by powder-puff loads snuck in by competitors in the past or something, never got the whole story, was told I had to shoot facory ammo. I know that was bs because there is a section in the rulebook regarding chrono numbers and bullet weight, if someone believes your loads are too light then they can ask you to prove they aren't. Bottom line the club wanted factory ammo, and I told them if they wouldn't provide it for me free see you later. I haven't been back.

Who only knows what they would have said if I'd have tried to shoot cast!

Gear.

[357shooter]

You hear all kinds of stuff. I'd just say thanks for the feedback, and keep shooting. If it's not against any range rules, you're OK no matter what a fellow shooter thinks. If it's not posted along with the other rules (I wouldn't even ask, that just brings things up) don't sweat it.

Did you really want to send them all Christmas cards anyway?


Of course the fart suggestion is always a good too! Now that's funny. LOL

[Brick85]

On the ventilation, this range does have it, but it doesn't whisk the smoke away immediately and the shooting for IDPA takes place beyond the line, further away from the fans.

On the friends thing, the problem is that I AM there to make friends, too. Good to know folks who think kinda like I do, and who are experienced reloaders too.

Remember, this IS an indoor range, so there's no "upwind", and smoke does matter. We set up a "course" of sorts, where you go to this position, shoot at targets, move to another, stand behind cover, shoot more, etc. So we're all moving through the same area, by necessity. I'd just hope I could keep it down so it's not bothersome. I take it to mean, then, that cast boolits ARE smokier than condom loads?

I saw that at least two people were using Titegroup; I've got a can, maybe I should try that out and see how it works.

Did I mention that the guy I was talking to was one of the guys who runs the IDPA sessions at the range? So just telling him "too bad" is not an option, especially as the newest IDPA shooter there.

So Alox is out. I suppose beeswax and crisco lube is also out? Is there a good lube I can pan-lube with a lube cake, or am I going to have to buy a lubrisizer too?

[kirb]

I have shot IDPA and ISPC always use casts boolits always outdoors. Smoke is a problem when shooting in to the sun, my best luck at reducing the smoke has been with BullShop speed green and WST powder in the 45acp and 40sw. Just a side note 2 winters I shot pins indoors with poor ventilation after years of casting and shootin lead and many company blood check through physical this was the only time I had lead issues with my blood. I had the chance to talk with the health and welfare office with the state of Idaho 3 or 4 time in 6 months.

Kirb

[ANeat]

Brick as a competitive shooter myself I must say its pretty unusual for someone to suggest that you shoot something else like that.

Doesent matter if he founded the IDPA. Thats just plain rude to suggest that you shoot jacketed bullets because there is too much smoke from the lead.

Now it sounds like youre doing the reasonable thing in seeking out a more suitable load. You should be able to find a good powder/lube combo that doesent smoke too bad

[Blammer]

try speed green lube, not very smoky for me.

[Brick85]

To be fair, I should clarify that I didn't shoot this time, I just observed, so this guy was speaking about his own experience, not chastising me for anything I've done yet.

[tactikel]

Most smoke is from the lube, I have used plated Raniers (expensive) and depending on the powder had little or no smoke. I went back to cast due to cost and the joy of turning scrap lead into a match caliber (no pun intended) boolits. LLA is a favorite of mine, but is really smoky. I got some lubes from Lstuff and and hope to find a load that is clean, easy to load, and accurate. I have had some fellow shooters cough, and mutter about how smokey is was in "here". Those are the guys who shoot 1 box of factory 9mm and go home for 6 mo. I shoot 500-1000 rounds each month-If the range is smokey complain to the owner and request better vintilation. I much prefer outdoor shooting for this reason.

[leadman]

Might try LBT Blue Soft. I get very little to no smoke even with rifle loads. Carnube Red has a little smoke, not to bad.

[jixxerbill]

On the ventilation, this range does have it, but it doesn't whisk the smoke away immediately and the shooting for IDPA takes place beyond the line, further away from the fans.

On the friends thing, the problem is that I AM there to make friends, too. Good to know folks who think kinda like I do, and who are experienced reloaders too.

Remember, this IS an indoor range, so there's no "upwind", and smoke does matter. We set up a "course" of sorts, where you go to this position, shoot at targets, move to another, stand behind cover, shoot more, etc. So we're all moving through the same area, by necessity. I'd just hope I could keep it down so it's not bothersome. I take it to mean, then, that cast boolits ARE smokier than condom loads?

I saw that at least two people were using Titegroup; I've got a can, maybe I should try that out and see how it works.

Did I mention that the guy I was talking to was one of the guys who runs the IDPA sessions at the range? So just telling him "too bad" is not an option, especially as the newest IDPA shooter there.

So Alox is out. I suppose beeswax and crisco lube is also out? Is there a good lube I can pan-lube with a lube cake, or am I going to have to buy a lubrisizer too?

man id say shoot, shoot, shoot!!!!!! maybe u getting too good for them ??? they tryin to get in ur head ! and its working !!! turn it around on them b4 its too late... u got them worried so keep the pressure on !!! good luck.

[ghh3rd]

I used Lee Alox on some .40's indoors, and every one of them left an obvious cloud. Since then I've been shooting outdoors under various conditions (windy, no wind, etc) and using Felix Lube on .44 boolits. I wasn't trying to pay attention to the smoke level, but to tell you the truth, I don't remember any.

I could send you a sample to hand apply to a small batch of boolits to test the smoke level. That's how I was applying it before recently purchasing a lube sizer. Put excessive lube on the boolits and size it off -- the rest stays in the grooves. Wipe off the base before loading.

Just PM me with your address if you want me to send some to experiment with.

Randy

[Greg5278]

How about Moly caoting the cast bullets? Moly doesn't smoke or burn with a heavy residue. I agree Alox is about the worst, and smells too. I shoot Shotgun sluigs lubed with NRA formula Alox/Beeswax lube outdoors. Some loads stink, and smoke badly, others you can smell but aren't too bad. Perhaps find another range if your is too snobby. The economic problems hurt all shooters. I shoot cast just as well as jacketed, and machined bullets to the same point of aim.
Good luck with your shooting.
Greg

[mpmarty]

No matter what game you enjoy you'll find some idiots in it that try to spoil it for you.

[Bkid]

I am glad I DO not have to shoot indoors. The outdoors is so much better.

[Duckiller]

Brick, the range may have a rule about exposed lead projectiles. Lots of people have shot at indoor ranges with limited ventilation. It has been reported that you can have an elevated level of lead in your blood at such ranges. If the range has poor ventilation or a nervous insurance company they may have a rule about what projectiles can be fired at THEIR facility. If that is not the case, I have had limited smoke with Lars Carnuba Red. Source see below.

[303Guy]

For what it's worth, I think Brick85 is being very considerate and wise too. :drinks:

[Brick85]

ghh3rd, PM sent. Thanks!

Moly is the stuff you put in a bag and shake, right? Would I need lube if I were moly coating? That'd be a real solution if I can't find a suitable lube.

This indoor range, thankfully, doesn't have any rule about lead projectiles, although I'm sure idiots are trying to make them follow that sort of thing every day.

[felix]

Moly works well for high pressure (side, not forward). Use motor mica mixed with a slow drying cheap polymer that is liquid enough to even coat the boolit by a shake-up method. Good luck on finding the a valid polymer for the purpose that is cheap enough for the application. Most are not because of the required purchase volume. ... felix

Suggestions would be stuff made by DuPont, Hercules, GE. They make all kinds of "sticky" stuff and one would be likely for the purpose. Ideally, it would be water soluble, meaning easy cleanup. Keep in mind, these companies also make the "personal" lubes sold under various names. ... felix

[Brick85]

So I'll have to buy several varieties of flavored "polymers" to test them? This will NOT go over well with the wife. . .

[1Shirt]

Lee mule snot does smoke a bit, but I don't mind it as much as some. I use LARs red for everything, and notice little if any smoke in both rifle or handgun!
1Shirt!:coffeecom