powder magazine?

[badgeredd]

I've been thinking about building a wooden powder magazine to kinda segregate the powders from the rest of my reloading room. It occurred to me that it is likely some of you have such a contraption. In reading I see that often magazines are built of 1" or thicker wood. That seems feasible and affordable to me. Any ideas, pictures, or suggestion from any one?

One advantage I can see is it would help organize my reloading bench and it would add to the safety of storing several pounds of powder. I understand the best idea is to have something that will somewhat contain the burn if the powders were to catch fire without restricting it to a point of allowing it to explode.

Edd

[crawfobj]

+1. I'd love to see pics/plans of what people have done here. I've been using a 20mm ammo can, but would like to build something with more capacity/safety built in.

Let's see some pics!

[c3d4b2]

I use an old refrigerator with the magnetic door seal (without the mechanical latch) It is insulated and if the pressure builds up the door will easily come open to release the pressure.

[MtGun44]

Old oak kitchen upper cabinets. Not too hard to find - checkwith friends or a
remodeler. Work great and meet the basic requirement of 1" nominal wood cabinet.
You want something that will protect from a fire for as long as is reasonable and not
contain the expanding gases when it does burn. Without containment you just get
a whoosh, no real pressure build.

[C1PNR]

One of the benefits to the refrigerator idea is that if the door seal is still good, control of the humidity inside the refrigerator is easier.

Otherwise, having looked into the wooden box idea myself, the suggestion is to build of stout stuff on top, bottom, and all but one side. Make one wall of thinner stuff and have it against an outside wall of the structure that is not reinforced at that particular spot, like in between studs. If something bad does happen, the side that will let go first goes outside the structure.

I've not done that myself yet because I'm thinking of the potential for setting that outside wall on fire.

The wooden box idea makes perfect sense if you're storing Holy Black in the "Magazine," as that stuff will explode if contained at all.

Although I guess whoever built that car bomb left in Times Square got something wrong in the equation. But then the description of the bomb that I'm working off is being supplied by the lame stream media, so maybe it wasn't Black but some smokeless propellant that "fizzled" instead of exploding. The LEO is quoted as saying he "smelled gunpowder."

[Bill*]

"The LEO is quoted as saying he 'smelled gunpowder.' " He possibly smelled what he smells at the range (i.e. smokeless) and doesn't know the difference? I could see someone who doesn't reload making that statement easily.

[markinalpine]

I use an Army footlocker I inherited that belonged to my Great-Grandfather, so it's over 120 years old. The wood is 7/8" thick and is double thickness at the edges, plus iron reinforced at all edges. I keep the top unlock to let off pressure if anything goes bad, and store smokeless propellant only. I keep the primers, no more than a brick of 5000, in steel ammo cans with dessicant, stored spaced apart in the garage.

Re: Time Square SUV bomb. The latest thing I read was that there were consumer grade fireworks in with the gasoline and propane. That migh be what the police officer smelt, and they are made with black powder, AKA gunpowder.

Mark :coffeecom

[badgeredd]

Reprinted with permission from NFPA495-85, Standard for the Manufacture, Transportation, Storage and Use of Explosive Materials, (c) 1985, National Fire Protection Association, Quincy, MA 02269. This reprinted material is not the complete and official position of the NFPA on the referenced subject, which is represented by the Standard in its entirety.

10-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) may be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), may be stored in residences if kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls or at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.

This is from the Alliant Powder site. SO back to my question...does anyone have such storage?

Edd

[Newboy]

Yep, wood box, loose lid, 1" thick.

What I use.

[square butte]

I use an antique oak ice box. Both the ice compartment and the food compartment.

[HeavyMetal]

Key words here are "Wooden box or cabinet having walls at least 1 inch thick".

Here in LA this has been translated as "refrigerator" and most every shop that had gun powder for sale kept it in a frig. Since they get inspected by the Fire Dept I always figured if it didn't meet the requirements the city would pull the plug on them!

Being it was good for the gun shops I figured it was good enough for me and I aqquired an old double door frig with magnets, no door latch!

Primers in one side powder in the other one inch nominal wall between them!

Get yourself a nice old frig and put it to use! Tons in the want ads/ recycling papers.

[jhrosier]

FWIW, when I lived in a high rise apt building in the big city, I kept my unopened cans of powder in a wooden box under my bed.
I always figured that if there was a fire, I dodn't want the powder between me and the exit.
If something was to ignite the powder without disturbing my sleep, it was obviously too late to worry.

Jack

[DLCTEX]

I like to use an old upright freezer due to better insulation. Avoid a chest type as there is too much potential for someone to set weighty things on it.

[AZ-Stew]

I also use a fridge. Mine's in working condition and remains turned on at all times. It gives me a number of advantages.

I can store powder and primers in it and they remain at the same temp year around, isolated from temperature changes in my shop. I set the fridge at about 40F and use it to store beer and photographic chemicals (which don't interact negatively with the ammo components).

The fridge will insulate the powder and primers from a small fire in the shop. In this regard, it's as good as a 1" thick wood box. I don't know how it would fare in a large fire, but it's surely better than nothing, and as listed above, it has its advantages over the wood box.

When I remove components from the fridge, I keep them in their original containers until they've reached room temp, to avoid condensation. We usually have dry air here, but there are times when a cold item in the room will attract moisture.

Works for me, and as Heavy Metal says, they can be had cheap. Probably less hassle than making the 1" thick wood box, and, did I say - you can put BEER in it?

Regards,

Stew

[badgeredd]

Thanks guys. :drinks:

Edd

[Firebird]

SAAMI has a brochure (http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf) on smokeless powder, including the recommendations and legalities of home powder storage.

[August]

FWIW, when I lived in a high rise apt building in the big city, I kept my unopened cans of powder in a wooden box under my bed.
I always figured that if there was a fire, I dodn't want the powder between me and the exit.
If something was to ignite the powder without disturbing my sleep, it was obviously too late to worry.

Jack

That would be a fitting end to a gun enthusiast, wouldn't it?

[SciFiJim]

So far I have only purchased 1lb containers. How tall are the 8lb containers? I also have been thinking of building an upright powder storage box cabinet and want to know what height to set the shelves.

[a.squibload]

I set the fridge at about 40F and use it to store beer and photographic chemicals...

You store beer and there's room for powder too?:drinks:

I have a beer fridge running in the garage, never thought about storing powder in a fridge.
Need to clear out the 7-month old leftovers and throw the powders in there.
At the very least I should remove the primers from the footlocker where the powder is now.
My basement is normally around 55º - 60º, but might be better to store the powders in the garage anyway.
Safety first.

[alamogunr]

So far I have only purchased 1lb containers. How tall are the 8lb containers? I also have been thinking of building an upright powder storage box cabinet and want to know what height to set the shelves.

Different mfg's use different height containers. I was doing pretty good using an old army surplus wooden "footlocker"? until I got some 8 pounders that wouldn't let the lid close. I'll go to the shop and measure a few of what I have and post later.

I wish I had a place for an old refrigerator. That sounds like an ideal solution. It would take up too much floor space in my combination shop/loading/casting room.

John
W.TN

[dragonrider]

I use an old "Flammables Cabinet" that was given to me, door closes and latches automaticaly and can be locked. Seems to do the job for me.

[alamogunr]

So far I have only purchased 1lb containers. How tall are the 8lb containers? I also have been thinking of building an upright powder storage box cabinet and want to know what height to set the shelves.

The largest 8 lb containers I have are Alliant. Those jugs are 11.75" high and have a bigger footprint than shorter jugs. They would hold 15 lbs of powder if filled. Don't know why they use such big jugs. I have an old tin can of SR4759 that is almost that tall. It is only a 5 lb can. Much better shape(rectangular, top to bottom) though.

John
W.TN

[C1PNR]

If you are lucky enough to get some surplus powder in the white 8 lb. quart jugs, you'll need just under 13" spacing.

[mike in co]

Reprinted with permission from NFPA495-85, Standard for the Manufacture, Transportation, Storage and Use of Explosive Materials, (c) 1985, National Fire Protection Association, Quincy, MA 02269. This reprinted material is not the complete and official position of the NFPA on the referenced subject, which is represented by the Standard in its entirety.

10-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) may be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), may be stored in residences if kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls or at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.

This is from the Alliant Powder site. SO back to my question...does anyone have such storage?

Edd

its a proposed fire std by idiots that know absolutely nothing about our sport.

the best idea is that if your town community have fire code hearings ...go and tel them no.

its not a law...its a fire ASSOCIATION idea.....( notice the metric references)

now
about the BOMB YOU HAVE AT YOUR HOUSE.
QUIT WORRING ABOUT THE POWDER AND GET THE PRIMERS OUT OF STEEL SEALED STORAGE.

PRIMERS ARE THE ONLY EXPLOSIVE IN MODERN RELOADING.

STORE THEM AS YOU BUY THEM IN OPEN AREAS, NORMAL ROOM TEMP/HUMIDITY.

MIKE IN CO

[The Double D]

I keep the primers, no more than a brick of 5000, in steel ammo cans with dessicant, stored spaced apart in the garage.


Mark :coffeecom


This is a bomb....store primers in a wooden cabinet. As Mike in CO said Primers are explosive don't restrain them.

[deerslayer]

I guess the fifty cal ammo can for the primers is a bad idea thanks for the tip I will get them moved tonight to an open air location. My garage stays a little on the humid side thats why I had them in an ammo can. I wonder if the plastic waterproof ammo cans would be ok and not contain the pressure to much??

[a.squibload]

I was thinking about one of those Sterilite plastic boxes from Wally World.
Would keep out most of the moisture, and no way it would hold pressure, they pop open pretty easy.
Add dessicant and you would be all set. Store that box in a fridge or whatever for insulation from a fire.

Used to work at a sporting goods store, gun sales. We stored black powder in a steel lockbox,
had a large gap for pressure release that was covered by the overhang of the lid.
Strong and secure but would not hold pressure.

My built-in "vault" is concrete with a steel door. Has about a 3" gap across the top of the door.
I suppose that would be adequate. Ideally this stuff should be stored off-site, like in a storage locker. Convenience vs safety.

[Harter66]

Can't help myself .

I've been living in this killer 1938 red brick officers house on the Hawthorne Army ammo depot for 2 years . It is a "perk" of the job. As it is an ammunition depot I'm inclined to think that the rules for storage are good 1s.
1)powder must be stored in a cabinet of 1" nominal lumber with a blowout wall or controlled venting for entire contents.
2)Primers in small quantities may be stored open in a closed cabinet . Quanities of greater than 2000 shall be in a separate powder locker.

1"nominal means 1x or equivalent. In my case 3/4 plywood.
Both the safety office and fire department "recomended" to me that I repack my ,not inuse, primers in non-propagational packaging. Short version 1000 per 50 cal can pack lined with cardboard to slip fit as to allow expantion and provide insulation to allow vent meltout of can seals.
I've passed 3 fire inspections w 6000 primers and 30 lbs of powder ,at my peak,on hand without a peep.

Rich

[casterofboolits]

Mine is an Oak framed Magizine covered with zinc plated sheet steel 1/32" thick inside and out. The dimensions are five feet long, four feet high and three feet deep. The magizine has six inch cast iron rollers mounted on the bottom. The magizine is stored in a walk in cooler in the building (ex food service) I use for my casting business.

I inherited this magizine from the gentleman who provided our club with powder and primers out of his basement. Primers are stored in 50 cal. cans by size with dessicant in each can.

[Geraldo]

its not a law...its a fire ASSOCIATION idea.....( notice the metric references)


Actually, Mike, it probably is the law. First, many communities have adopted NFPA as part or their ordinances. If so, it carries the weight of law. Second, a lot of fire code is based on NFPA recommendations, so even if NFPA doesn't apply the state or local code may be a verbatim copy of NFPA standards.

That said, I have no magazine and never have. In my years with the FD, I saw more monetary and physical damage done by cooking oil than any other substance.

[Bert2368]

My primers are in a plastic "ammo can" from Cabella's. Small quantities of smokeless powder for hobby reloading are in the original jugs/cans, in a cabinet with a door that can blow open- In an UNOCCUPIED, separate building. Bulk storage of smokeless and black powders used for professional fireworks and special effects are in a BATFE approved outdoor magazine.

That all being said, I'm a lot more worried about the gas can for the mower and snow blower than the reloading components!

As Geraldo noted, many state and local fire codes just roll big chunks of some particular revision year's NFPA guidelines right in. AND- your insurance may contain a clause negateing coverage if you don't follow NFPA guidelines. Our display liability insurance certainly does.

[deerslayer]

Actually, Mike, it probably is the law. First, many communities have adopted NFPA as part or their ordinances. If so, it carries the weight of law. Second, a lot of fire code is based on NFPA recommendations, so even if NFPA doesn't apply the state or local code may be a verbatim copy of NFPA standards.

That said, I have no magazine and never have. In my years with the FD, I saw more monetary and physical damage done by cooking oil than any other substance.

Ditto!