lead shot as lead source

[MGK3]

Hi all

Brand new to casting and was wondering about using magnum shot for casting 452 LSWC. Have 50 lbs from shotshell reloading. Did a search for lead shot and didn't find much info about using this as a source of lead for LSWC's Am I missing something?

Ay thoughts will be welcome

MGK#

[Pepe Ray]

MGK3
I've never used shot (exclusively) for casting, BECAUSE.
Some where in the vast library of boolet casting there is an explanation of WHY the industry uses arsinic in large doses (how much is large?) to manufacture shot.
It is because arsinic reduses the surface tension of the lead and facilitates in making ROUND shot more round.
This is not a feature we boolet casters need. We like nice sharp edges on our bases and lube grooves.
Arsinic has a good quality in that it helps in the water hardening of lead(tempering?). But only in very small amounts. Fractions of a percent.
If you must try it, be sure to experiment w/ a very small batch. Then you can blend it UP to salvage it should it be tainted.
Pepe Ray

[MGK3]

Pepe Ray

The bag says something about arsenic, but in all the reading I have done on bullet casting, this is the first time it was clearly spelled out.

THanks

MGK3

[Bullshop]

My understanding on this is that the arsinic actualy increases the surface tension. Increased surface tension makes it more dificult to get well filled sharp edjes on driving bands. Not imposible to make shootable boolits just more dificult. Just the sort of thing that may make a beginer turn away in frustration.
Some of the first monstrocities I made nearly 30 years ago shot perty dern good in spite of thier ugliness! Member a quiter never wins and a winner never quits.
BIC/BS

[MGK3]

Bullshop

Any effective ways to deal with the arsenic, or would the work / pain outway the reward of using the lead shot? Trying to find used WW around chicago isn't an easy proposition. Most tire shops are the chain stores and all have contracts with scrape outfits for disposal or so I have been told by the 6 places I stopped at. Any other good sources for lead to cast?

Please bear with, newbee questions.
Thanks

[jhalcott]

while lead shot can be used to cast decent bullets(bhn 13) it is better used as a hardening agent when heat treating your bullets. If it's all you got though, use it.

[9.3X62AL]

Shotshell shot seems like a real expensive metal source when contrasted with wheelweights. Just my take on the matter.

This reminds me--only 37 more shopping days until dove season, and I have a BIG box of 12, 28, and 410 empties to re-fill. It's always something.

[MGK3]

Deputy Al
Expensive compared to "free", if you can find "Free" WW. WW around chicago are very hard to find, seems the scrapers have already been there. I can still get 25lb of shot for $20. Again I'm a newbe and looking for answers.

Thanks

[Scrounger]

Deputy Al
Expensive compared to "free", if you can find "Free" WW. WW around chicago are very hard to find, seems the scrapers have already been there. I can still get 25lb of shot for $20. Again I'm a newbe and looking for answers.

Thanks

Find a shotgun range that has mined their fields lately. The reclaimed shot is separated, cleaned, and sold for about one-fifth the cost of new shot. It already has some antimony in it, all you need do is add about 2% tin when you melt it down. By the way, the amount of arsenic in shot is minute, less than 1% if I remember correctly. It is not a consideration in making bullets although its presence is an advantage in small calibers. It makes the lead 'tougher', I believe the engineering term is 'sheer strength'.

[Paul B]

I can buy reclaimed shot for $9.00 for a 25 pound bag at my local trap and skeet club.
There are some articles that I printed out off the old Sixgunner.com by Paco Kelly who is a great fan of shooting lead. His recipe for using shot was 18 pounds of shot and a one pound roll of 95/5 percent lead free solder. I see no reason why using the whole 25 pound bag with that roll of solder wouldn't make a decent bullet metal. IIRC, the amount of arsenic in shot is only .05 percent, not a heck of a lot, but it's a case of a little goes a long way. I don't know if Kelly's recipes is still on Sixgunner or not. Maybe so, maybe not.
I usually add the shot to my wheelweight, linotype mix in small amounts to get that little bit of arsenic into the mix when I want to heat treat the bullets. Usualy one -third cup has worked well for me.
Paul B.

[MGK3]

Paul B

I checked Sixgunnerand all the old articles appear to be gone. But thanks for the insight about mixxing it with solder.

MGK#

[Bullshop]

MGK3
Dont frett your situation is far from hopless. As others have said all you need do is add about 1 to 2 % tin and you will have a fine casting alloy that will quench harden to harder than wood pecker lips. The tin does relieve the surface tension and allows the alloy to flow freely to fill out nicely squaired edjes.
I bought 500 lbs of reclaimed shot at .10 per lb. just because it already has antimony alloyed in. In the past 18 months the price of antimony has about trippled.
I have been getting my tin from John Walters at $7.00 delivered. I have used other sources over the years but have questioned the purity. What I get from John is what I pay for. Most here know of John for his fiber wads for BPC but he is also a good source for tin and you can tell him I sent you.
Keep the faith brother caster!
BIC/BS

[MGK3]

Bullshop

That's the type of info I was looking for and I'll give John a call

Thanks

MGK3

[Bucks Owin]

"Harder than woodpecker lips".....Love it!

Finer than frog's hair!

Dennis

[Larry Gibson]

I can buy reclaimed shot for $9.00 for a 25 pound bag at my local trap and skeet club.
There are some articles that I printed out off the old Sixgunner.com by Paco Kelly who is a great fan of shooting lead. His recipe for using shot was 18 pounds of shot and a one pound roll of 95/5 percent lead free solder. I see no reason why using the whole 25 pound bag with that roll of solder wouldn't make a decent bullet metal. IIRC, the amount of arsenic in shot is only .05 percent, not a heck of a lot, but it's a case of a little goes a long way. I don't know if Kelly's recipes is still on Sixgunner or not. Maybe so, maybe not.
I usually add the shot to my wheelweight, linotype mix in small amounts to get that little bit of arsenic into the mix when I want to heat treat the bullets. Usualy one -third cup has worked well for me.
Paul B.

I also use just straight shot when wanting a good hardened bullet that is still ductile and not prone to shattering or shearing when expandining. The antimony is primarily the hardener with the arsenic added. When cast hot and water quenched from the mould BHN is 14-16 depending on the % of antimony. This translates to a bullet that can be driven to 2000 fps with very good hunting accuracy and excellen expansion properties. I use this alloy for hunting bullets in magnum revolver loads using GC bullets at 1400-1500 fps 429244 and 358156.

I also use it with .30 cal and 8mm HPs with the HP stem shortened. Lyman's 311041 HP and 323471 HP are excellent performers with shot alloy. Expansion is much smoother than with an alloy containing tin. The lead/tin/antimony alloys shatter or shear at rifle velocities.

As stated I cast them hot (800-850) and drop them into cold water right from the mould. The bullets usually have a light frost all over. While there is a little more rejection rate fill out is not really the problem. Casting to fast and smearing the top of the mould and bottom of the srue plate with lead are.

I'd also suggest that for just regular shooting bullets add the tin and cast at a normal rate. This will give you good bullets.

Larry Gibson

[Junior1942]

Put an ad in the paper and swap that shot 3:1 for wheelweight alloy. Maybe 4:1. . .

I have ~300 lbs of used shot, and it's pure lead with 1% to 3% arsenic added for that roundness factor. I ONLY melt it outdoors. It casts easily, and the bullets are fine. Just soft.

[MGK3]

Thanks for all the great info. This has certainly helped me out. I've ordered the pot and moulds, etc not just have to wait til it gets here.

MGK3

[DEVERS454]

West Coast Shot uses about 6-7% Antimony and only a half a percent of arsenic. (from what I found out)

Add to that a pound of 50:50 lead:tin and you get a nice 92:6:2 alloy.

Price for that alloy will be about $1 per pound... If you find a group of shotshell loaders, you can usually get in on a deal for some magnum shot and get it for $15-$16 a bag of 25 lbs. (going rate right now is $20 a bag of 25 lbs)

If its all you have access to, then, by all means.. use it and enjoy!!!

[BigSlick]

One question re: shot.

How exactly do the clubs reclaim the shot ?

I have access to a shotgun only range that has been looking for a way to reclaim the lead to get the local tree huggers off their case.

I can have all the recovered shot I want for free, I just don't see myself on hands and knees with tweezers and a magnifying glass.

If you want to find some ww's, take a road trip out in the country for a day or two. Plan the trip around something you have planned. Take a few buckets and hit every tire shop you see.

I've done this once or twice and scored more than enough to make it worth my efforts.

Good luck in your search ;)

BigSlick
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[charger 1]

"Harder than woodpecker lips".....Love it!

Finer than frog's hair!

Dennis

and softer than a silkworm's pecker

[MGK3]

Devers454

I give that a try and see what I end up with. Lead shot around here is going for $23 /25lb, up 15% in a month

BigSlick
Road Trip for WW? It's a thought. Last time I had a road trip it had nothing to do with "Bullet Casting" :0

MGK3

[carpetman]

Back in the 60's enroute to Alaska with a goal of taking up reloading after I got settled in,I read a couple of books. One of the books was the Lyman manual and what they had to say about casting perked my interest and created some questions. They gave their formula for Lyman #2 using wheelweights as the basis in some of the recipes. My thought was how can you take an unknown and mix precise,weighed,sorted,amounts of stuff and come out with an exact? Back then I figured wheel weights were made out of whatever they could get their hands on that would melt. I did read on one of these boards a few years ago that wheelweights for some reason or the other do adhere to more critical standards than that????????? Maybe so???? So with that notion(possibly warped) that if it melted it made wheel weights so the same was true with bullets. Everything was good for well over a quarter of a century,even as Ol Abe would say,over three scores. Then everyone in the world it seemed, told me to get good fill out on .22 cal bullets,I needed to add tin. Now we are making it rocket science. Before,if it melted,it got shot. Besides rocket science,we are spending money. So I (cry)bought some solder for the tin. First and only time I ever bought casting material. I had always found free sources. I could tell a difference adding the tin. My wallet wasn't as fat---well ok it was even closer if possible to malnutrition than it had been. Only difference of any kind whatsoever I could detect. But who am I to say,I have no thermometer and no lead hardness tester--so my observations would be greatly deprived of having any real basis. Has my bullet performance suffered? I don't know. I have only shot at one big animal with cast bullets and that was a Texas whitetail spike buck. This was using a .243 and I was shooting the cast bullet at same velocity I shoot the jacketed bullets(and the jacketed work fine). Not a drop of blood was found. The spike ran off. Was the problem too small a caliber or was it too hard a bullet or both? We'll never know--I hunt with jacketed bullets and my cast bullets will be made out of something that melts.

[MGK3]

Carpetman

As I have done research on "Bullet Casting", it is amazing the conflicting info that is out there or the opinions that are put forth as fact when the components used are of unknown material content. I consider the source on all advise given to me. The caliber of the thoughts and opinions put forth on this web site are definitely better than the average website. The advise given here seems to be from people whom know what they are doing from experience and who actually love doing it.

As a guy I used to work with was fond of saying "Paralysis through analysis", you think the thing to death and never accomplish anything. Ultimately I am sure that I will just melt it & Shoot it

MGK3

[StarMetal]

Carpetman,

Well I know that a newcomer reading this forum thoroughly would get the drift that one really shouldn't go smaller then a 30 caliber cast bullet for hunting deer. Yes a few have taken them with smaller rounds, like Waksupi and his 6.5. I would imagine if you shot that deer in the head with your 243 it would have gone down pretty quickly. There's probably no doubt that he did died, but like you said no blood trail makes for very hard tracking.

I think alot of us started like you did. I melted anything that would melt and got some really fine bullets that shot pretty darn good too. I was always on the outlook for sources of lead, like old water pipes, stock of lead ingots my Dad had for making sinkers, railroad babbit, and wheel weights. They I learned that by varying the alloys you could make bullets of different diameters, weights, and hardness. I do agree with you that too many here make it rocket science.

Joe

[MGK3]

UPDATE

For grins I took 30 of the .452 255 LSWC that I was having heavy leading from and occasional keyholes from and I coated them with LEE ALOX. Loaded up in 454 Casull Starline cases with 11 grs of titegroup and went to the range. Got resonable accuracy and most important of all: No Keyholing and much lighter barel leading. Amazing what a different lube will do. The commercial caster had applied Magma Hard Blue lube. Quite a difference.

[Old Jim]

I have just started casting round balls for cowboy pistol shooting. My main source is some #12 shot that I traded for. If it has any alloying material I can't tell it. The metal (after doing some voodoo) melts rapidly at a "cool" temp. Must be hot to fill a mold and the resulting balls are dead soft. A 36 cal ball dropped from 6' onto a concrete floor does not bounce.