.41 Cal Minie

[Benny]

Hi all...
My first time to post on this thread. I've been back behind the firing line watching though. I have a Muzzle loader combination gun that has been in my family for almost 150 Years. My Dad, brother and I have Hunted with it over the years, and we have all killed game with it, from Ducks, and Squirrels to Deer and Wild Hogs. we have always shot a patched .38 cal ball in the rifle, and did pretty good with that load. The bore is .410, and I'd like to try a cast bullet in it. I've thought about the .41 magnum bullets, but was wondering if anyone knows of a heavy minie type bullet in .41 caliber. If anyone has any, I'd like to buy a few and try them before I invest in a mould.

[Leftoverdj]

Benny, measure your twist first. It may very well be too slow to stabilize bullets. I'd want 1 turn in 50" or faster for bullets. If you have that, I have an old Lyman mould that casts 220 HBWCs @.413 or so. I have some around that have been sized to .410. PM me when you have the twist measured and we'll work something out.

If you have a very slow twist, as I suspect, you should be able to improve accuracy and pick up a bit of weight by going to a .400 or .405 ball. Dixie Gun Works will have the mould, and may sell the balls.

[Wayne Smith]

Most of your .40 cal. Rifle moulds run a nominal .410. Some run larger, and NEI has a slew of them that run .410, .411, .412, and a bybcg at .415 and .416. Remember, NEI will shorten any mould by any number of grease grooves, too. This gives you a lot of options.

[Benny]

Thanks for the info Wayne...
This gives me some more ideas for this project

[Wayne Smith]

Most of your .40 cal. Rifle moulds run a nominal .410. Some run larger, and NEI has a slew of them that run .410, .411, .412, and a bybcg at .415 and .416. Remember, NEI will shorten any mould by any number of grease grooves, too. This gives you a lot of options.

I have no idea what bybcg is other than clumsy fingers!

Benny, I agree, determine your rifling and your bore/land diameter. Remember, the slower the twist the shorter the bullet. If you have a slow twist you may be limited to the short pistol bullets. If it's above 1-45" to 1-50" you are pretty much limited to round balls.

[Benny]

Wayne...I didn't have any trouble figuring it out...bybcg, is "Hillbilly" for Bunch.....
I'm originally from the Hills of PA, so I was able to decipher right away.

What is an effective way of determining the twist, when the breech plug cannot be removed (Frozen)? The Grooves are .410, and the lands are close to .405, this is from a slug I made yesterday.

[Buckshot]

.........Take your loading rod and put a couple patches on it so it's a good snug fir in the barrel. With a Sharpie draw a line down the rod. Use Scotch tape draw the line on if the rod is wood. Once the end of the rod is in the muzzle far enough to get a bite, measure back down the rod a foot and put a hash mark across the other line.

Slowly push the rod in until the 1 foot line comes up to the muzzle and then look at where the long line down the rod is. If it's made about a quarter turn, then it's a 48" twist, which is a common default twist.

................Buckshot

[Benny]

OK Buckshot....I'll give it a try, and post my findings here. The Combination was made by Jacob Harder of Lock Haven Pa, sometime around 1850. He died in 1855. My Great-Grandad bought it in 1876. It's a family heirloom, but still a good shooter. I'll try to get the twist sometime this afternoon...Thanks for the suggestion...

[Benny]

OK, for all of you that are helping me get this project off the ground, I checked out the twist rate, and here is what I came up with. I tried both patches, and a bronze brush. The brush seemed to be more positive, less prone to slipping. I ran the rod several times, and measured going in, and coming out. What I came up with was the Ram Rod turned 3/4 of a turn in 30", which is the bbl length. That means it was turning 1/4 turn every 10", so you add 10" to the 30", and you get one complete turn in 40". From what you Guy's say, I should be able to run Cast bullets instead of a patched ball. I think it would be worth a try....Whatcha think?

[Wayne Smith]

I think any of us who have a relatively short .41 cal mould ought to send you a dozen or so bullets with full information about the mould they were cast in. That ought to give you a running start at finding out what might work, and all you spend is the time and powder.

For starters, I"ve got the RCBS 40-400, but it's a long sucker, probably too long for your rifling. My shorter bullet runs .417, maybe too big, but if you want some send me a PM with your address and I'll send you some. This mould is my design from Mountian Molds, for my combination cartridge gun. 10.5x47R caliber on the rifle side, this is a bullet for that. Runs around 260 gr.

[Benny]

Hi there.......

Several PM'd me about putting up pictures of the Heirloom Project I'm working on. The Combination Gun was built by Jacob Harder of Lock Haven Pa. It was built around 1850. He passed away in 1855. My Great Grandfather bought it in 1876. My Dad, Brother, and I rebuilt it in the mid 60's. We weren't looking to ever sell it, so the value decreased as far as a collector is concerned, but we wanted it to be passed down for many more generations. We have all killed game with it over the years, Squirrels, Ducks, Deer, and I killed a Feral Hog about 20 years ago with it. We have always used .38 cal. patched balls in the Rifle barrel, and had good luck. My project now is working up a cast bullet load in it to try to improve the grouping a Little, and use it again during Deer season this fall. The rifle bbl is .40 Cal, with the grooves at .410, and the lands at about .403, or .405. , The slug wasn't real smooth on the lands. The twist is 1 in 40", so from the info I have gathered on this site, It should be able to stabilize a cast boolit....I will be playing around with several designs to get the best load worked up.

[Larry Gibson]

Benny

That is one fine rifle! I have a .45 cal ML that I use Lee 190 gr SWCs cast of soft reclaimed .22LR lead in. I've also used the 200 gr Lyman SWC. I run them through a .452" sizer and they are then groove diameter. My rifle has a .452" groove depth with 1-48 twist. I set the bullet on the muzzle and then with a slight tap of the starter it engraves into the riflingand is seated easily with the ramrod. It shoots 2-3 MOA at 100 yards. My point being I could cast some Lee 175 gr and 210 .41 cal SWCs for you to try. I could run them throught the .10" sizer if you want that. Let me know.

Larry Gibson