.45 acp issues

[chrismetallica1]

Ok,
Just looking for a little advice. Currently Im running two .45 acp guns. A .45 Taurus revolver and a .45 lee enfield MK4. I have been having issues with the revolver and my cast bullets. Basically when I reload with my cast round and the bullet is seated to the correct depth making the round 1.275 overall. It doesnt seat right in my revolver? I seated a .45 FMJ RN 230 grain to the same depth and crimp and I get no problem at all but with this Lyman cast 200 grain SWC It doesnt seat. You have to phisically push each round down with your thumb before the cylinder will close. Anyone else had this issue? I think it has something to do with the lip on the bullet and the lip on the inside of the cylinder? What mould should I but instead?

Cast round on the right - FMJ left (see what I mean about the lip on the cast one. If I seat it so it doesnt cause any issues in the revolver. The round is well under the SAAMI dimentions 1.258
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/22451063/386301705.jpg

regards

Chris

[Char-Gar]

The leading shoulder on that SWC is causing the problem. Forget out factory specs and set the bullet deep enough to not cause any problelm. The world will still be more or less round and in the same orbit after you do.

[chrismetallica1]

Cheers,
I was going to do that. I was just a little worried about causing an increase in preassure. I will give it a go

All the best

Chris

[Dale53]

I had a Taurus Tracker in .45 ACP and had the same problems. It was solved when I seated the bullet shoulder even with the case mouth. For normal target loads it will cause NO problem whatsoever.

If you have the cylinder throats reamed to .4525" adn the bullets are sized to .452" they will seat at the same "standard" length you normally prefer. This job can be done by:

http://www.cylindersmith.com/

His turnaround is quick and the cost is MOST reasonable. An added advantage is the revolver will probably shoot better with throats the proper size.

NOTE: Be sure and slug your cylinder throats before you just "assume" they are small. If they are small, then the solution is at hand.

FWIW
Dale53

[MtGun44]

Seating depth in loading manuals is important because it relates to the pressure that
you would expect to get. If you seat deeper, you decrease the combustion chamber
volume, and pressure rises. Seat longer and pressure drops. This is not a huge deal
for many loads, depending on what percentage change did you make in the combustion
chamber and how close to the maximum pressure is the load.

LOA in a book has nothing to do with what you may need to fit a particular boolit into
a particular firearm!

You must do what you have to so that your ammo works in your gun.

I find that a REAL H&G 68 needs to be seated to 1.250 to chamber in my Dan Wesson
1911 with a very tight throat. Some other guns are OK with as much
as 1.265 with this boolit. I think your seating length is very long. Look closely at the
full diameter shoulder for contact marks with the end of the chamber.

Adjust the seating depth as necessary ! Just be aware of the pressure implications.

I think a LOT of folks are seating their .45 ACPs too long and wondering what the problem
is.

[Dale53]

When dealing with the .45 ACP in the 1911 platform, I ALWAYS set bullet seating depth by removing the barrel and using the chamber as a depth gauge. This is for cast bullets - set the seating depth so that the cartridge headspaces on the bullet. Adjust the seating depth until the base of the case is even with the hood.

As long as the overall length is not too long to fit in the magazine this will insure proper seating depth for THAT particular gun. I am able to use the same seating depth for my three 1911's AND use that same setting for my revolvers. The revolvers are much more adaptable to various seating depths than my 1911's (as you might expect).

Having just ONE seating depth sure simplifies things greatly when you need to feed five different handguns with the same loads.

Further, in the 1911's, headspacing on the bullet gives more consistent ignition that can lead to greater accuracy potential.

FWIW
Dale53

[chrismetallica1]

Cheers for all the advice,
I had a play with the seating depth of the cast SWC. To get the rounds to seat correctly in the revolver cylinder the shoulder on the case rounds needs to be just above the case mouth. This results in a round that has a total overall legnth of 1.230 inch. Thats a full 0.045 under SAAMI specification. Im not sure what preassure increase that would have on the round. However .45acp is a relitivly low pressure round.

regards

Chris

[chris in va]

That's nothing. You should see what I have to seat my 9mm boolit to so it will chamber in my CZ 75. I have to go from 1.095 to 1.01 and reduce powder charge to bare minimum.

[Calamity Jake]

Cheers for all the advice,
I had a play with the seating depth of the cast SWC. To get the rounds to seat correctly in the revolver cylinder the shoulder on the case rounds needs to be just above the case mouth. This results in a round that has a total overall legnth of 1.230 inch. Thats a full 0.045 under SAAMI specification. Im not sure what preassure increase that would have on the round. However .45acp is a relitivly low pressure round.

regards

Chris


Lower the powder charge .5 to 1 gr and don't worry about it.

[chrismetallica1]

Cheers for the info. Im already right at the bottom of the powder charge. Im using 4 grains of bullseye so I guess it wont make much diffrence

regards

Chris

[Cherokee]

Carry on Chris, you got it now.

[StarMetal]

Chrismetallica1,

I'd say most the OAL figures are for semi automatic pistols and the reason being the magazine they have to fit in and feet correctly.

I don't think you have a worry seating deeper as the 45 has more volume capacity then say a 9mm. With the 9mm you can run into pressure problems fast the deeper you seat the bullet.

This problem with fit in a revolver seems to be universal. I have the same with my 45 ACP cylinder for my Ruger Blackhawk single action.

[chrismetallica1]

Thank you all for the info,
I just dug the Alliant powders book out and my load of 4 grains with a 200 grain cast bullet produces 9,200 psi the round at max can take 21,00 psi. even with the reduced size it will be well within the pressure range for the round :bigsmyl2: Looks like I will have to put in a variation on my FAC (firearms cetificate though) Im only allowd to posses 700 rounds of .45 acp and if I load them short for my revolver they wont feed right in the 1911 mag that my lee enfield MK4 takes... Well there goes another £28 and a 1 month turn around time (providing they allow it as a valid reason)

[DLCTEX]

here goes another £28 and a 1 month turn around time (providing they allow it as a valid reason)
Chris, that really sucks! Come to Texas, we'll treat you better.

[chrismetallica1]

I would love to live in USA but its not an option at the moment. Mabe one day :D till then I will just have to take a holiday to the US every so often. I havent been to Texas yet. Just Las Vegas, Califonia, LA, San Diego, Palm Springs, Miami and Florida. Hopefully make get over to the states later this year depending on work ect... Things aint too good in the UK on the jobs front at the moment and we are in the run up to a general election on the 6th of next month.

[ItZaLLgooD]

700 rounds?? That's one good weekend!

[randyrat]

I would love to live in USA but its not an option at the moment. Mabe one day :D till then I will just have to take a holiday to the US every so often. I havent been to Texas yet. Just Las Vegas, Califonia, LA, San Diego, Palm Springs, Miami and Florida. Hopefully make get over to the states later this year depending on work ect... Things aint too good in the UK on the jobs front at the moment and we are in the run up to a general election on the 6th of next month.
Chris when your on HOLIDAY in the states go to Texas, give us a little lead time or heads up and we will all donate a few rounds for you to shoot. i'm sure someone down there can have a gun ready at your disposal. You'll have more rounds you can shoot. Just let us know, give us a whistle.

[MtGun44]

How are you allowed to own the revolver???? I thought all handguns were
banned.

I'd move - like at least one former UK resident that I know has done.

Bill

[chrismetallica1]

How are you allowed to own the revolver???? I thought all handguns were
banned.

I'd move - like at least one former UK resident that I know has done.

Bill

Semi auto full bore rifle banned in 1987 :(

Basically all short handguns and semi-auto pistol were banned in 1997. However, there are some exceptions.

A club with a section 7.1 and 7.3 lisence. This allows hitoric pistols that would be banned under the 1997 act to be used. There are a few clubs like this in the uk. Unfortunatley none near me :( They basically shoot things like. Old 1911's , broom handle mausers and old war time pistols

Pistols / revolvers can be kept for humane dispatch. However are usually restricted in capacity and require good cause to obtain

Section 5 liscence issued by the home secetary. Basically not many people have them.

Or an LBR. the rules after 1997 didnt really say no handguns. It said no guns under 24" unless its a black powder pistol as they are exempt. So what people did was get 12" barrel revolvers with either a rod fitted or a wrist brace. As semi-auto is banned in everything except shotgun or 22 rimfire. They also made rimfire pistols in the same way. With the 12" barrel and Rod its 24" over all thus conforming to the current law

These are my two

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/21444666/373684702.jpg
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/22451063/376887848.jpg

And these are other examples of what is currently on the UK market

.22 LR 1911
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/21444666/373687138.jpg

VQ custom shop .22 lr
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/22451063/373687596.jpg

.22 lr brono
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/22451063/373054905.jpg

Freedom arms 454
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/22451063/373056146.jpg

JTL custom shop
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/21444666/352673041.jpg

SYSS custom shop
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL480/4004437/21444666/352673059.jpg

All the best

Chris

[Lavid2002]

And to think people complain over here....... wow : O

[257 Shooter]

That is exactly why we should complain and complain loudly so it does not happen here.

[MtGun44]

Thanks for the reply and great pix.
Nice guns, but boy what a pain in the butt with all that barrel and silly rod in
the grip.

Does it make any impact at all on these morons that 39 US states are 'shall issue'
for concealed carry and we have millions legally carryin concealed handguns all
over this country without incident - other than a crime reduction? How about the
inverse correlation in the US between the restrictions on handguns and the
crime rate. For example - Kansas has NO state laws about handguns whatsoever.
There are Federal restrictions - instant phone background check and age limit
(over 21) which must be obeyed. Chicago bans handguns. Guess where the crime
rate is the highest?

My condolences, sir and "Carry on!". You are doing as well as you can given the
idiotic restrictions in place.

[chrismetallica1]

MtGun44,
We do our best considering the restrictions. The handgun ban almost stopped shooting in the uk as many people just gave up all together. Its only over the last couple of years the number of firearm certificate owners has started to rise again. Fingers crossed the Tory party get in at the election on the 6th of may as they have said they will have a vote on bringing .22 rimfire pistols back to be held at club premises only. Its a start at returning to the good old days. The public were lied to when the ban took place as the government said it would stop firearms crime (dont think there advisors live in the real world). Since the ban gun crime has increased expinentially every year. Dont think the powers that be realised the criminals wouldnt hand there guns in like the law abiding liscenced shooters :groner:

All the best

Chris

[MtGun44]

Is it generally known in UK that any adult with no history of mental illness or a
felony conviction can guaranteed by law get a concealed carry permit in either 39 or 40
of our 50 states? Our lefty anti-gunners screamed about 'blood in the streests'
and 'shootouts over parking spots' and of course, it never happened.

We have a VERY large pool of folks carrying guns daily over here, completely
aside from the 50% that keep guns in their homes, with that running far higher
in many states.

The point you made at the end is the key. It is nearly certain that a person that
has not had any violent behavior in his/her life will not be a crime problem beyond
a level about as common as getting struck by lightning. Criminals do not obey
any laws, why would they obey gun laws? It is SOOOO obvious, yet there
are many folks that blame "availability' of guns for crime.

So - now that guns are almost completely unavailble in Britain, you have a gun
crime rate higher than the USA! What an improvment.

Best of luck in turning it around. We have been making steady progress for
20 yrs. One of the most important benefits of concealed carry laws is that you
build an unassailable body of statistical proof that honest citizens with guns do
NOT cause crime, but in fact, prevent it on a regular basis.