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Fly
04-25-2010, 05:10 PM
The guys over on GunForms sent me over here.I just started reloading about
two weeks ago & I think they are tired of all my dumb questions.

Well guess what??I'm in the process of casting my own Bullets & you have me
now for a while.I had a little worry about bugging you till I saw how you spelled bullets.

Shoot that's my kind of folks.No really I have cast black powder stuff in the past
but I know that's a whole different cat.

I shoot only Milsurps & I'm thinking doing some of the paper patching, but
NO NOTHING on that.

Gas checks ? just started reading up some on that.The thing I wonder most
about is not exceeding the FPS rules for lead.:holysheep

Wayne Smith
04-25-2010, 06:12 PM
Welcome! You came to the right place. First let us know what milsurp calibers you are shooting, how fast you want the boolits to go, and what you want to use them for.

Unless you are shooting a 45-70 or something else of that era you will invest in gas checks. Either they or very hard boolits are necessary to get much over 2000fps. I think all my 45-70 molds are flat base. I have one FB .30 cal mold but that's a special tapered nose pour for my 7.5 Swiss and will be shot relatively slow.

Gas checks are little cupronickle cups that fit on the back end of boolits cut for them. Thus you will see mention of gc molds and fb molds, for gas check and flat base. And the perinneal question of 'can you shoot a gc mold without a gc?' See the sticky on that question.

You buy gas checks through Hornaday, one of the group buys here, or buy a checkmaker and make your own. Independence is nice. We have a whole section dedicated to the little buggers here.

This should get you started until you think of questions of alloy, casting temp, water dropping or tempering your boolit, ect.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
04-25-2010, 06:14 PM
Welcome aboard.

Without knowing what you plan on shooting, it is hard to give much in the way of helpful info.

However, depending again on what you shoot you may exceed safety or comfort levels before needing to worry about shooting your cast boolits too fast.

Some guns may have leading issues, while other do not. This could be due to the barrel quality, size, size of cylinder throats on a hand gun, thread choke in a handgun barrel, incorrect sizing of boolit, and/or the kind of alloy in use.

As you get more into the subject, there are many folk here able to address issues, but better then that, much info which very likely will prevent "issues" before they start.

Give specifics as per your firearms and your goals and there will be plenty of answers headed your way.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Kraschenbirn
04-25-2010, 06:58 PM
Welcome...drag up a rock and join the insanity. No need too be shy; if your questions concern anything related to cast projectiles, someone here has most likely already tried it and everyone will have an opinion. (A couple years ago, someone started a poll of forum members on accumulated casting experience and, as I recall, the total was something over 6000 YEARS by the time the thread sort of petered out.)

Bill

Fly
04-25-2010, 07:11 PM
OK the Milsurp's I plan on casting for are my Swiss K31 & my Enfield Ishapore in .308 Nato.

Later on I plan on getting some brass for M39, but for now I will just shoot up some of
the surplus stuff I have on hand.

Wayne Smith
04-25-2010, 08:15 PM
Your next step is to slug your bores. The Swiss will almost certainly be a tight .30 caliber but the Enfields are all over the place. Do a search on bore slugging, there are plenty of posts that will lead you through that process. Do you have a micrometer and know how to use it or have a friend who does and will teach you?

This is critical information because, as you may have already read here, fit is king. That is the fit of the boolit to the throat and to the bore. If you don't know your bore/groove measures you don't know how to size your boolits.

Oh, yeah, you will need some way to size your boolits. Either the Lee press mounted or one of the lube sizers will be needed. You also need to be researching lubes. If you don't know the BullShop's BullPlate Sprue Lube you need some. It also makes Speed Green boolit lube when added to beeswax, also available through our Vendor Sponsors.

Fly
04-25-2010, 09:28 PM
Wayne I slugged the .308 Enfield Ishapore right after I got it.She is .3105 & .300.I have not slugged the K31 yet.I have all Lee stuff I bought there 50th starter kit.I also have some
Alox.

I did buy the Redding reloading dies for my Swiss ammo.The guys at Gun Forms have kept
me on line mostly.I will slug the K31 thou.I can buy a sizer that will fit my press, can't I?

Wayne I'm retired Tool & Die maker so I have all the Mic,s & calipers & so on for checking
this stuff.

I will get back with you after I slug the Swiss.Would you shoot for .001 fit after sizing the boolit?

RobS
04-25-2010, 10:57 PM
Fly:

Welcome to the forum and this place will provide you with a wealth of knowledge that can take years off your trial and error progress. As been stated if you are trying something out more than likely someone here has already been there and done it.

As for sizing, a general rule of thumb is .001 to .002 over your barrels groove diameter.

Mk42gunner
04-26-2010, 01:08 AM
Fly,

Welcome aboard. If you don't ask questions, how will you learn?

For my 2A1 Ishapore, I am using Lee's 312-185 boolit; they say it is for the .303 British, but it works in most 30-31 caliber rifles. I size it to .313" and load into Lake City brass. My rifle has a very long throat, I am loading to a c.o.l. of 2.823". I can't tell you how they shoot, I am working on some rear sight issues right now.


Robert

303Guy
04-26-2010, 03:32 AM
Welcome aboard, Fly.:drinks:

... I'm retired Tool & Die maker ...Would you happen to have a lathe and perhaps a mill? There's much fun to be had making your own molds and dies!:mrgreen:

Interesting that the Ishapore groove diameter is .3105. I wonder if that was done to keep pressure down. After all, the SMLE design is a little bit 'flexy' and even using steels like 4140 it is close to the 7.62 NATO's limits.

Fly
04-26-2010, 08:59 AM
303Guy yes I do have a lathe mill ect in my shop.I 'm thinking of making some of my own
dies in the future.But before I do that I need to know a lot more about this hobby.

Hey I just started reloading last week.You need to learn to walk before trying to run.Smile

Bkid
04-26-2010, 09:43 AM
The guys over on GunForms sent me over here.I just started reloading about
two weeks ago & I think they are tired of all my dumb questions.

Well guess what??I'm in the process of casting my own Bullets & you have me
now for a while.I had a little worry about bugging you till I saw how you spelled bullets.

Shoot that's my kind of folks.No really I have cast black powder stuff in the past
but I know that's a whole different cat.

I shoot only Milsurps & I'm thinking doing some of the paper patching, but
NO NOTHING on that.

Gas checks ? just started reading up some on that.The thing I wonder most
about is not exceeding the FPS rules for lead.:holysheep

Welcome from another newbie. I just casted my first boolits this weekend. This is the best site for knowledge and nice people to help you out. What gunsite did you come over from?

Fly
04-26-2010, 01:21 PM
GunForms.com they are a great bunch also.They have a reloading form along with all
there Milsurp boards.

I think there some over here that go to both.

Wayne Smith
04-26-2010, 04:17 PM
As a tool and die man you need to go down to the gunsmithing and special projects boards. WARNING - you will be drooling!

Yes, as others have said, .001 to .002 over groove depth is what you typically aim for. If that don't work you try something else.

Fly
04-26-2010, 07:27 PM
Ok I have some questions.First we are shooting for .001 .002 over the grove,got that!Now
I want to start out with Lee molds, price wise & I have alot to learn yet.You guys don't
even realize all there is you know till a new guy comes here & reads all there is to
this.

Sorry I'm starting to rant.My groves slug out .3105 so I get a mold say .312 .313.Now I size
it .311 got that.But does Lee make those sizes in there molds & sizing dies.Another wonder
after reading some here do the molds drop the right size bootie & does the sizer size what
they should.

In this .308 what type of bullet should I use.What weight?Hey you guys are dealing with someone that's dumb as **** in this stuff, but I'm working hard to learn more, so I can be
able to talk to you guys on a level where I,m not a dumb a$$ any more if you understand
what I,m saying.

I know nothing of Boolit design but it sounds really neat.I just hope you can put up with some of my dumb questions, but in time I will get better.
Fly














knows nothing in bullet design

RobS
04-26-2010, 11:26 PM
Well there is alot to say about bullet weight, but your barrels twist rate will tell you if you can shoot heavier/longer bullets. Generally a faster twist rate will allow a rifle to stabilize a heavier/longer bullet vs a slower twist rate. Twist rate if you don't know is just the opposite as what looks right. i.e. 1-14 inch is slower than 1-10 inch. If you don't know what your rifles are it is really easy to figure it out with a cleaning rod and a jag or brass brush.

As for design of the bullet it depends on what you are wanting to do. Hunting purposes then a bullet with an ample meplat (nose of the bullet) or a hollow point may be an option. I shoot bullets like these for everything and do not shoot a spitzer, also commonly referred to as a spire point bullet, as I don't have a need for a pointy bullet.

The thing about cast bullets is there is no "for sure thing" only common practices. Although, just because there is a way it is done most of the time doesn't mean it can not be done another way. The bullet you chose will probably need a GC (gas check) if you plan on shooting it out to 1900 fps or above. It can be done without a GC but it becomes much more difficult and alloys have to be hard and so on and so forth.

MtGun44
04-27-2010, 01:05 AM
You will find that the K31 has essentially no throat. Rifling has about a 45 deg chamfer
on the ends of the lands where they hit the end of the chamber. Factory bullets are
two diameters, IIRC about .300 ahead of the cannelure and .308 behind. Expect that
you will need a .299 or smaller nose or a spitzer design. I have had good results with
311413 spitzer boolits. Many have stated that 311413 cannot be driven hard with good
accy. I have not yet tried to push pressures and velocites up, but at moderate velocities
I have had real good accy.

Good luck.

Bill

HORNET
04-27-2010, 02:17 PM
Fly, as the Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy says: "Don't Panic!"
This isn't necessarily hard and it's only as complicated as you want it to get. Lee makes a sizing die that will fit in your press to size your cast boolits down and Lee Liquid Alox (AKA Mule snot - which comes with the die) will work well enough to get you started as a lube until you want to try something else. The die will also seat and crimp gas checks. The same checks will work for both calibers (.308 & 7.5). There is a sticky in the Gas Check forum on loading without gas checks which can work under some conditions.
You might want to get a Lyman .30 cal. M-Die with the long body which will expand the cases mouths so they don't scrape the sides of your boolits and damage them. You could also get the Lee Universal Expander but most prefer the Lyman, YMMV. Others use a tapered punch, larger caliber bullet, needle-nosed pliers, etc.
Do some reading in the "Stickies & Classics" forum on the main index page, then look around down in the 'Cast Boolits for Military Rifles' section and the 'Favorite Loads' sections. There is loading data and boolit recommendation info there on both the rifles that you are planning on trying.
Since you just recently started reloading, I recommend that you first get a Lyman Reloading Manual and read the instructional sections in it. It'll answer a lot of your questions and fill you in on the basics. I suggest the Lyman because it has sections specifically on Cast Bullets. I think the current version is #49.
Welcome to the fun.