WW's Too Hard??

[brad925]

Was at a shoot the other day just to watch and ask qeustions. I had asked about the type of metal used and replied that i had smelted down 300lbs. of ww's to use. I was told that they were too hard if i planned on using them at .001 or .002 over groove diameter. I also was told that this was because they got too hard after a month or so. So now i am left scratching my head again. I am thinking i will have to put this casting thing off again for another year until i get a little more info or a little more confused.

[wistlepig1]

Brad, you might tell us what you are going to cast for, ie rifle, pistols, what Cal, the bullits you are wanting to mold and more. The more details you give the better the help. Good shooting

[jwp475]

Was at a shoot the other day just to watch and ask qeustions. I had asked about the type of metal used and replied that i had smelted down 300lbs. of ww's to use. I was told that they were too hard if i planned on using them at .001 or .002 over groove diameter. I also was told that this was because they got too hard after a month or so. So now i am left scratching my head again. I am thinking i will have to put this casting thing off again for another year until i get a little more info or a little more confused.

WW make great bullet in my experience and I have shot a lot of them

[TCLouis]

Just guessing, but if they said WWs are too hard you were at some kind of Black Powder Cartridge match. Most of them consider 20:1 pretty hard.

[JIMinPHX]

It depends on what kind of WW too. Clip on lead WW get a bit hard. Stick on lead WW tend to be dead soft.

[mooman76]

WWs are the best metal to use (on average)in my opinion. They work well in both rifle and pistol. They even work in muzzle loaders. If you need a little harder you can add a little tin or antimony to harden them up and if softer is needed you can add some pure.

[chris in va]

I was told that they were too hard if i planned on using them at .001 or .002 over groove diameter.

News to me. Shoots perfectly in my 45acp and 9mm carbine.

You can air drop WW boolits and get around 15 hardness. Water dropped will supposedly get you 22 after they cure. My 9mm likes the harder boolit.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

It is mainly lead...90+ percent plus the rest being antimony aand maybe a trace of tin. The hardness number or BHN is generally around 9 but can be slightly higher. It makes good bullets just as it is...certainly adequate for pistol bullets and most rifle loadings under 1600fps. Its ok to gather info any way you can, but I don't think that you need a year to do it; cast up some of your bullets from the WW that you have and try them out. Until you do that you will forever be relying on the opinions of others. If you need harder bullets then you can add 1-2% tin; the tin will also increase the "flowability" of the alloy and make bullets fill out sharper. The bad news is that tin is expensive, but for small amounts the use of 60/40 type solder is readily obtainable. To soften WW as was also pointed out, just add some pure lead to the mix. Normally folks size cast bullets at .001-.002 larger than groove diameter. It is true that sizing diameter can effect grouping. I would recommend again that you cast some bullets and try them out. If your grouping is decent or good then you are "in the ballpark" and can make adjustments of any of the variables from then on. Also keep written records of what you are doing as well as the targets. Memories can get crowded and short in this game. LLS

[Evil Dog]

I have a lot of fun getting rid of wheelweight 148gr at a time with my K-38. No complaints at all.

[deltaenterprizes]

WW with a little tin make great pistol bullets.

[gon2shoot]

Unless your shooting BP, WW's are the best starting point I've found in 37 years.

[brad925]

Sorry i did'nt mention what i was loading for. I am load ing for a 45-70 H&R Buffalo Classic. I have a Lee 405-.459 HB mould to start with and will go from there. I am planning to try and obtain a loading in the 1300 - 1500 range if possible using smokeless. Right now i am shooting jacketed .300 HP rem. bullets with 45.5 gr. of IMR 4198 but am thinking of going to IMR 3031 to fill out the cases when slowing them down to that 1300 to 1500 fps. Not positive on any of it but it seems like a good place to start. Also looking at some other moulds as well.

[Bret4207]

Try it and see. I don;t think it's too hard for what you're doing. Sounds like someone got some information and extrapolated from the half way point. WW will do fine.

[RICKLANDES]

If you are going to use strait WW in your 45-70 for hunting, you may want to try a bit more lead in the mix. Those big bullets kill by penetration, but softer one do expand a bit esp. if thru the shoulders is the POA.

Some say that WW's do not "slug-up" in the bore under BP pressure. I would shoot a few and see what you get. I might try a say 1/2ww and 1/2 lead just to get a comparison group. Seems all those BPCR like their own personal loads... JMHO

[Guesser]

Very interesting!! Too hard? I use the Lee 340 gr. and air cooled WW to get a boolit of 345 gr. sized .358 over 29.0 gr. of SR4759 in my Ruger #1 45-70 for exactly and very repetitious 1500 FPS over a Pact chronograph. Very accurate, very pleasant, and cheap to shoot. You should be able to achieve your goal with little problem.
One thing that has astounded me is the fact that the velocity of my load doesn't change much at all due to temperature. I tried it at about 10 deg. below zero last winter and I lost only an average of 30 FPS from my figures at 50 above. Haven't tried it on a hot summer day.

[44man]

Sorry i did'nt mention what i was loading for. I am load ing for a 45-70 H&R Buffalo Classic. I have a Lee 405-.459 HB mould to start with and will go from there. I am planning to try and obtain a loading in the 1300 - 1500 range if possible using smokeless. Right now i am shooting jacketed .300 HP rem. bullets with 45.5 gr. of IMR 4198 but am thinking of going to IMR 3031 to fill out the cases when slowing them down to that 1300 to 1500 fps. Not positive on any of it but it seems like a good place to start. Also looking at some other moulds as well.
WW's are perfect for just about anything but in the 45-70 they might be too hard for deer hunting. For all other shooting and boolit diameters they are great. But looking at the velocity you want, a WW boolit with a flat nose will be a perfect deer load, just don't drive them too fast. As you get near 1600 fps you will want some expansion, below that none is needed.
3031 is a super powder for the 45-70 rifle. I obtained the best accuracy with it with reduced recoil over 4198.
I don't know if you will like a HB boolit though. Also try heavier boolits to 500 gr. Rapine makes a super accurate government boolit mold in several diameters, I like the .460". But these need to be soft for hunting.
The 45-70 rifle will shoot about any alloy from pure on up. You might have to play with the alloys and lubes to prevent any leading. A little tin added to the WW's is a good starting point.
Don't be afraid of ANY lead in the 45-70, just find what shoots best for you.

[brad925]

This gun i am just shooting for fun. I also have an H&R Ultra in 450 Marlin. That one i am looking at a RCBS 405 FP G.C boolit for huntin. The problem with boolits much over 400 grains is that it has a short throat.

[44man]

This gun i am just shooting for fun. I also have an H&R Ultra in 450 Marlin. That one i am looking at a RCBS 405 FP G.C boolit for huntin. The problem with boolits much over 400 grains is that it has a short throat.
That should not stop you with the right boolit. My Browning has a very short throat and I use up to 540 gr boolits.

[largom]

The RCBS 405 gr. FN GC is a GREAT boolit, shoots very accurate in all of my 45-70's. If you can get some plain [pure] lead mix 50-50 with your wheel weights for a good hunting alloy air cooled. Actually I mix 60% lead to 40% WW with a little extra tin for my 45-70's. Wheel weights will soon be hard to get and this mix makes them last longer.

Larry

[excavman]

From the op by Brad:

"I was told that they were too hard if i planned on using them at .001 or .002 over groove diameter. I also was told that this was because they got too hard after a month or so."

Gee, I never heard of ww boolits getting harder with age. Does that mean maybe they cure like concrete does? I have some 311284's I cast 40 years ago, bet they're hard as diamonds by now.

Larry