was there really shortages or was it

[Lloyd Smale]

just a ploy to raise prices? My wife just came back from FL. she stopped down state on the way at Jays, a very larger sporting goods store that used to have fair prices. Im short on fed primers and told her to pick up a bunch. Well she came back with only a brick of small pistol. The price on them was 40 bucks. Local gander mountain wants 50 bucks a brick. I just picked up primers from a group buy a guy did localy here for 90 bucks a case. Thats 18 bucks a brick and im sure he made a few dollars off of them. So what that shows is the companys supplying these large retailers like jays and gander moutain havent raised there prices much so why are these retailers raping us so badly! Over a 100 percent markup. Now thats a profit margin that will make your rich fast!!! It does show you if nothing else that even if there were shortages the retailers werent paying anymore for the small ammount they were getting so surely had to right to double the price and screw us. More proof of this rip off is now for the most part primers are back on the shelves and the price sure hasnt come back down!

[oldhickory]

Lloyd, I talked to a Remington factory rep about this time last year, and she claimed they were working almost round the clock, 13 days out of 14 trying to keep up with the demand. My local shop sells cartons of standard primers at $24.00 and magnums at $25.00 per thou. He still says he can't get .45 Colt ammo to save his hide. FWIW, most of his powder runs $19.00-$21.00 a lb. I just got 8lbs. of Varget from him, cost me $135.00 + tax. About $20.00 more than two years ago.

I'm sure some of these goons are raping the prices, but things have gone up in the honest shops too...

[Hardcast416taylor]

Lloyd, The prices are as high as Jays down here at Williams Gun Sight store in Davision. Primers are 1k per customer and are in the $45 range. Powders vary with maker but are in the mid $20 range per lb. I don`t really swallow the line about working endless hours producing primers either.Robert

[jcwit]

On Target in Kalamazoo is in the same price range, their .22 rimfire ammo is also sky high. Drive a mile down the road to D&R and save some money.

[mike in co]

yes there was and still is a shortage!

the supply is getting better, the local sportsman wharehouse had cci primers at 29/k.

the only primers i can get as a dealer is wolf and they cost me nearly 26/k delivered.

no cci/no fed/no rem

guys that have been on waiting lists are getting some primers, some getting too many nad trying to resale for cost.

if he sold at 18...i don't know how he did it unless it was a class 6 buy with is not for resale.


who knows.


mike in co

[sheepdog]

People need to stop buying primers and use what they got so the prices will come down. Simple supply and demand. If they sit and collect dust the price will go down.

[NVcurmudgeon]

just a ploy to raise prices? My wife just came back from FL. she stopped down state on the way at Jays, a very larger sporting goods store that used to have fair prices. Im short on fed primers and told her to pick up a bunch. Well she came back with only a brick of small pistol. The price on them was 40 bucks. Local gander mountain wants 50 bucks a brick. I just picked up primers from a group buy a guy did localy here for 90 bucks a case. Thats 18 bucks a brick and im sure he made a few dollars off of them. So what that shows is the companys supplying these large retailers like jays and gander moutain havent raised there prices much so why are these retailers raping us so badly! Over a 100 percent markup. Now thats a profit margin that will make your rich fast!!! It does show you if nothing else that even if there were shortages the retailers werent paying anymore for the small ammount they were getting so surely had to right to double the price and screw us. More proof of this rip off is now for the most part primers are back on the shelves and the price sure hasnt come back down!

Lloyd, I believe that there was a real shortage, caused by consumer apprehension. As an Exxon dealer during the gasoline shortage of 1980 I had cars lined up whenever I opened the pumps for sales. The "five bucks worth" customers would come in every day and fill up, eventually getting to the point where they had little room in their tanks. Eventually the state mandated an odd/even license no. system, which was too little too late to ease the mob scene on my pump islands. Dealer purchases were limited and markups were also state mandated. What had happened was that customers were going to ridiculous extremes to keep their tanks full, creating what is called in the gasoline business a "rolling inventory." During this mess I drove to San Francisco one day, and was boggled by the number of tanker ships in the bay. The tankers were waiting for their turn at delivering to the refineries, which were going at maximum capacity. Of course, maximum capacity was limited because of EPA/Sierra Club moratoriums on building refineries. Once the refineries caught up, and everybody had a full tank, gasoline got harder to sell, traffic thinned out, the state-fixed prices were suspended, and prices dropped.
Market forces won out, despite state "management."

To this old pump jockey, the ammunition shortage was deja vu. Obama was elected, many people worried about gun and ammo supplies and bought all they could afford, which fullfilled demand and improved supply.

Prices going up? You bet. I've been keeping track and noticing a sharp price increase on primers and powder right after each new year. That's why it has been my practice to buy all the primers and powder I could afford every November for at least the last ten years.

[Bullshop]

`Fairbanks Sportsmans Warehouse,
all primers @ $40.00 -K
Powder in 8 lb kegs @ $200.00
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

Lloyd, I believe that there was a real shortage, caused by consumer apprehension. As an Exxon dealer during the gasoline shortage of 1980 I had cars lined up whenever I opened the pumps for sales. The "five bucks worth" customers would come in every day and fill up, eventually getting to the point where they had little room in their tanks. Eventually the state mandated an odd/even license no. system, which was too little too late to ease the mob scene on my pump islands. Dealer purchases were limited and markups were also state mandated. What had happened was that customers were going to ridiculous extremes to keep their tanks full, creating what is called in the gasoline business a "rolling inventory." During this mess I drove to San Francisco one day, and was boggled by the number of tanker ships in the bay. The tankers were waiting for their turn at delivering to the refineries, which were going at maximum capacity. Of course, maximum capacity was limited because of EPA/Sierra Club moratoriums on building refineries. Once the refineries caught up, and everybody had a full tank, gasoline got harder to sell, traffic thinned out, the state-fixed prices were suspended, and prices dropped.
Market forces won out, despite state "management."

To this old pump jockey, the ammunition shortage was deja vu. Obama was elected, many people worried about gun and ammo supplies and bought all they could afford, which fullfilled demand and improved supply.

Prices going up? You bet. I've been keeping track and noticing a sharp price increase on primers and powder right after each new year. That's why it has been my practice to buy all the primers and powder I could afford every November for at least the last ten years.

NV, I saw it from a different perspective in the 80's. At that time I was working for the Sunoco Oil Refinery in Tulsa, Ok. Across the river from us was the Texaco Refinery ( they weren't full compliment and were geared to gasoline production). Both of us deliberately hoarded gasoline to drive the prices up. That's fact. Your story contributed to the fiasco.

[markinalpine]

Don't forget that all the domestic manufacturers of primers also make, or are owned by someone who makes ammunition. I'm sure that they get more for a primer installed in a cartridge than they do for a primer in a tray of other primers.
Just my $0.02 :bigsmly2:
Mark [smilie=1:

[mike in co]

Prices going up? You bet. I've been keeping track and noticing a sharp price increase on primers and powder right after each new year. That's why it has been my practice to buy all the primers and powder I could afford every November for at least the last ten years.




but none of the usa makers raised prices this year....no anounced price increase on primers that were sent to me.(or very insignificant)

wolf raised thiers 25% last year, no news this year.

i dont watch powder that much, so it may have gone up.

your timing is about right.
the SHOT show is were new prices are used /set for the year( normally) and that is at the end of jan/first part of feb.

mike in co

[wallenba]

[QUOTE=Lloyd Smale;873743]just a ploy to raise prices? My wife just came back from FL. she stopped down state on the way at Jays, a very larger sporting goods store that used to have fair prices.

Lloyd next time your down the way near Detroit, look up the Westborn gun shop in Taylor Mi.. He's getting a good supply of all types lately and does not gouge. I recently got 1000 small rifle $37.00, but was forced to buy CCI benchrest large rifle at $46.00 for 1000. Not as good as your group buy, but better than most have been doing here.

[Harter66]

Out here I saw $10 per k for primers (from $32 up to 44 varing a buck or 2 by brand) and a couple of bucks per lb on powder only about a $10 jump on the 5 and 8lbs though. Still have max buys something like 2k per flavor per customer per trip. Don't know that they would stop a guy from getting his 6k (lrg pistol lrg rifle sm pistol ???)out to the car and coming back for more.

Wal-Mart has all the 45 Colts and 45-70 in Reno. At the pit of no ammo 3 stores had over30 boxes of each to go with 1 box each 270 ,06s.

[looseprojectile]

This is second hand info. BUT!
A friend that lives in a small town in Idaho close to Lewiston tells me that a neighbor that works for ATK has told him that ATK/CCI is several million behind in primer production. They are working hard to mitigate the backlog.
That means they are trying to catch up.
Years ago I saw an article in a gun mag showing how primers are made. A lot of hand work goes into making them. Maybe that has changed.
For now I will do what I have to do and improvise and cheat and steal and pay the price to keep the rounds coming off my reloading press.
As in, lately I have used regular instead of magnum primers in loads using H110 powder in .44 magnum and .357 magnum.

Life is good

[Charlie Sometimes]

CCI small pistol primers are $36/k around here at local owned gun stores.
They were going out the door pretty fast at that price.
I don't even look at the big box stores anymore.
I have seen them at gun shows for $45 a few months ago.

There was a demand induced shortage- I think they are catching up and we are buying/hording less. There is still a lot of gouging going on, too. The vendors have to make up for the purchase at inflated rates now.

[oldhickory]

Lloyd, if you're a traveling man, (or any of you for that matter) and get around central Pennsylvania, Halifax area. give Mike at "Hit or Miss Gunshop" a ring. He's good people who won't gouge you, Mon, Wed, Fri, 6-9pm, Sat, 8-12am. (717-896-8348 to make an appointment).

[mike in co]

Lloyd, if you're a traveling man, (or any of you for that matter) and get around central Pennsylvania, Halifax area. give Mike at "Hit or Miss Gunshop" a ring. He's good people who won't gouge you, Mon, Wed, Fri, 6-9pm, Sat, 8-12am. (717-896-8348 to make an appointment).

thats nice,
but
if everyone and thier brother in law goes and sees mike...he will run out of primers, and he will not be able to replace them over night...and he will be in the same boat as everyone else.

from his partime hours...this is not a full time business/single source of income. if it is a hobby, its fine not to make money, but i do this for a living.

i have not had a distributor offer me an american made primer( not shotgun) in over a year!

they are trying to fill back orders when they get something in.

even when grafs/midway/etc get primers in, they are gone in a day.

its getting better, but we aint there yet.

mike in co

[EMC45]

I just saw some Fed SPM for 43.99 a thou!!!!!!!!!!

[oldhickory]

thats nice,
but
if everyone and thier brother in law goes and sees mike...he will run out of primers, and he will not be able to replace them over night...and he will be in the same boat as everyone else.

from his partime hours...this is not a full time business/single source of income. if it is a hobby, its fine not to make money, but i do this for a living.

i have not had a distributor offer me an american made primer( not shotgun) in over a year!

they are trying to fill back orders when they get something in.

even when grafs/midway/etc get primers in, they are gone in a day.

its getting better, but we aint there yet.

mike in co

It ain't like everybody on Cast Boolits is gonna beat a path to Mike's door. If any of you guys are in the area, I'm just saying call and stop in, Mike doesn't seem to have a problem getting stuff, and yes, he works the farm full time besides running a gun shop...No crime there.

Sorry your distrubiters don't keep up, Mike.

[mooman76]

I've noticed the prices are starting to come down some but like gasoline, they raise their prices quick and slow to come down and will probably not go down to what they were.

[danski26]

I get my primers from a friend who is a comercial loader. He has many MILLIONS of primers on back order. Mostly Winchester brand. When I ask him about prices he says he doesn't know what he will be charged for them when/if they come in.

[milsurp mike]

ALL the primers you want and any Flavor in South Alabama for $30+ per 1000.Lots of powder also.Mike

[frankenfab]

There really was a shortage. I also think that retailers took advantage of the situation.

As far as Remington goes, they are one of my customers, and they have been going all out 24-7 for some time. I have been in the plant in Lonoke several times in the last couple of years. But I generally don't buy Remington primers! I use CCI 95% of the time.

[Texasflyboy]

This is second hand info. BUT!
A friend that lives in a small town in Idaho close to Lewiston tells me that a neighbor that works for ATK has told him that ATK/CCI is several million behind in primer production. They are working hard to mitigate the backlog.
That means they are trying to catch up.
Years ago I saw an article in a gun mag showing how primers are made. A lot of hand work goes into making them. Maybe that has changed.

You may have received the information second hand, but it was accurate.

And therein lies part of the answer. To this day, at all the OEM's primer manufacturing is done by hand at the most critical junction. This means the lead styphnate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_styphnate), which is an impact explosive, and extremely dangerous to work with in any quantity above a thimble full, is rolled out by hand into the primer cups. No mechanical means are used to press the primer cake into the cups. There are binders and solvents which can be used to mitigate the danger during roll-out, but by no means is the act of pressing damp cake into cups routine or boring. Think about that job. You are pressing an impact explosive into a small metal cup by means of...force. You are using force to press an explosive which reacts to ....force.

Match primers are partly due to those experienced folks who have demonstrated superior consistency in applying uniform, repeatable, consistent methods in pressing the cake into the cups. They are a chosen few, highly compensated, and always in short supply.

Due to the unique nature of primer manufacturing, it is pointless for any OEM to radically increase investment in primer manufacturing because of its inherent danger to manufacture. The CCI primer buildings look like Fireworks huts. They are physically separated from each other and personnel are kept to a bare minimum.


The last time I requested a tour of ATK's commercial ammunition production facility (one of the Federal facilities) I specifically asked to visit primer production. My request was summarily denied. It was made clear that no one, unless essential to production, having been thoroughly trained and mentored, enters the primer production facility. No exceptions. Period.

Primers will once again be readily available. It's simply a matter of time and patience as it was with all the other scares.

[RP]

Well its supply and demand people are still buying primers as soon as they can find them. But telling everone to stop buying them and supply will increase and price will level off. But its not going to happen until productions or maybe i should say shipping to catch up its going to stay the same as it is now. I think its like the lumber company did here hurricanes came in tore everything up in three states plywood went up over 10 bucks a sheet said there just was not enough to go around and plant was working as hard as they could to meet demand. I was at the plant that made plywood they had it stacked so high and deep they were out of room and not a single truck was running it out they were holding it keeping price up. So if money is to be made someone is going to make it.

[frankenfab]

"Match primers are partly due to those experienced folks who have demonstrated superior consistency in applying uniform, repeatable, consistent methods in pressing the cake into the cups. They are a chosen few, highly compensated, and always in short supply.

Due to the unique nature of primer manufacturing, it is pointless for any OEM to radically increase investment in primer manufacturing because of its inherent danger to manufacture. The CCI primer buildings look like Fireworks huts. They are physically separated from each other and personnel are kept to a bare minimum"

I agree 100%. The BR/March primers are not weighed. They are made exactly as you describe. When I was in college my machine shop class toured Remington, and for some stroke of luck we were allowed to see the primer production area.

[Adam10mm]

I just picked up primers from a group buy a guy did localy here for 90 bucks a case. Thats 18 bucks a brick and im sure he made a few dollars off of them.
Negative. Small primers are $17.21/K and large primers are $18.72/K. I rounded to $18/K to keep things simple. Actual average is $17.965/K, so technically I made $0.035 per thousand profit (that's three and one half cents), but the full value is going supplier direct (please do keep the supplier a secret though). Reason I sold them to you at my cost is your reloading shack went tits up last year and I wanted to help a local guy rebuild his component stock. If it were different circumstances, price would be $30 or $35/K no discounts. I'm a businessman (not much of one, but I am to some degree) but I still have a heart. First thing I did was PM you while reading your story on the forum and offer my discount to you.

The price is OEM manufacturer price which is less than wholesale ie Graf's, Midway, and Powder Valley don't even buy them for that price and they order in the millions per year. Only 06 or 07 FFLs may order from this place and at that price for use in their own ammunition brand. I was granted a special, rare permission to resell them as I'm closing my business when they arrived on open invoice. The three persons in the group buy bought them at OEM cost, less than any wholesale price in the country.

At the local gunshow last weekend, I sold them at retail for $30/K, making about $12/K profit. I sold 11 boxes so I made $132 profit. The local gun shop was out and had been for a while. I could have went 100% markup with a $35/36 per K price and sold them, but I decided to match online prices that were around $29-30/K. Economies of scale played a part. I was hoping to generate enough sales/profit to be able to pay the invoices and settle those plus keep some inventory for a rainy day.

Prices will always be what the market will bear. If no one bought primers at $30 per K, they wouldn't be $30 per K for long. Most wholesale on primers are $22.50-25/K, then retail is a 20% markup from there and you move volume (basically $30/K plus shipping and HM fee). If people pay $40-50 for a thousand primers, retailers will sell them for that price. The business is in business to make the most profit they can given market conditions. The consumer is in it to pay the least they can for a product. Where the retailer and consumer meet with an agreement is the selling price. The buyer and seller agree that the price requested for the product is a fair value given totality of the circumstances of the market conditions with supply and demand economics being a huge (majority) factor.

If the price on a gun is $10,000 and there is only that same one in existence, that's supply and demand. If the price on a gun is $100 and there are 100 million of them in existence, that's supply and demand. Two extreme points on the spectrum, but valid nonetheless. Low supply, high demand will get a higher price. Conversely high supply, low demand will make prices plummet. Supply and demand economics also effects things like money and inflation. Print more money, there is more supply which lowers demand which causes inflation. If you print less money, there is less supply which will increase demand which will decrease inflation.

[DLCTEX]

Everyone I know who reloads was buying primers at every opportunity. Most now have enough to last many years, but when they come across $30K they still buy more. Others were buying ammo by the case lots and still pick up ammo at every opportunity. I did very little buying as I was already well stocked. There is no doubt the shortage is real with war on two fronts, the Mexico drug cartels and various insurgent groups buying, and pile the Bama admin. on top. Just think what a hit the economy would take if the banners got their way.

[Lloyd Smale]

Adam i gues my point in all of this is that alot of people are blaming cci and federal and ww for these big price increases. Ive heard alot about the so called skyrocketing metal prices ect but bottom line is that if they have raised there prices its been a drop in the bucket of the increase weve seen. I cant imagine the profits companys like midway, graffs ect have made off of compontents in this shortage. Now there may still be shortages of some things but the local gander mountain has there powder locker full and primers on the shelf (if you want to pay 5 bucks a brick for them) So basicaly supply is back so if supply and demand really worked wed be seeing prices come back. This is more like starve and gouge! Adam im more grateful then you will ever know for allowing me in on this. It does show you though that if you a small dealer that doesnt do alot of sales can make a good profit at 30 bucks a brick a big company that sells a thousand times more then you shouldnt be charging 20-30 percent more! Personaly i still think some yuppie bean counter dreamed this whole thing up to make a fast buck!

[mike in co]

i have said this before, and i'll say it again.

if i sell primers for a living, and i sell 50k of them a month at $2 markup, which is what i did with wolf after the election, then that is all of $100 profit on primers for the month.
now i count on the 100 bucks as part of EVERY MONTHS INCOME.
when there are no primers to buy, i'm not making money.
when primers are available, i need to make money, because i have bills to pay.
on top of which the only primers i can get are wolf and the importer raised his prices 25%, and the distributor did the same.
now pimers i sold for 22 cost me 26 plus.
and i cannot get 50k a month, only 25k and most months none are available.
so now i sell at 33(33 PLUS TAX). that is aprox $6+ per k profit...but i'm not selling 50k a month , i'm not even selling 20k a month. so on a good month i make 120 on primers, but the extra $20 a month never makes up for the months with NO PRIMERS TO SELL.

there has been NO SIGNIFICANT PRICE INCREASE IN US PRIMERS BY THE MAKERS. the price increase may happen at the distributor, BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN THAT.
THE PRICE YOU PAY AS A END USER, is established by what you are willing to pay when the supply is limited.

a big company is not affected as much as a small guy when a single commodity becomes hard to supply.
midway may sell 200k of primers a month,maybe a 5 /k profit, so that is $1000 per month. i'm sure thier sales per month overall vary more than that.
on the other side of the coin, a small shop that specializes in reloading, selling 25k a month will notice $125 change in his bottom line......and even more when he cannot supply his customers with primers and they don't come in to buy the other stuff.

i see no conspiracy, no ploy, no manipulation of the market by us primer makers.
they easily could have done what wolf did and raise thier prices, they did not!
one cannot blame wolf for making money, thier 25% increase actually only put them at market price, it was the distributor adding another 25% that hurt.

did some people as individuals, buy some primers low and sell high...yep.....it is the trade mark of free enterprise.
most business did not.
i had a dealer pay me $60/k for cci41's that i had paid 10/k for. now put it in perespective. i bought full sleeves 7-8yrs ago and got a good price...my personal primers. last year when primers hit $80-100/k, i did an inventory of my personal stash, and decide to sell about 20k.
it was simple math, i had plenty and with the profit i can replace my primers later on a 2 for 1 basis. i sold primers at 60/k and will replace them at 30/k.....that is just smart thinking.

if you cannot deal with this...try running your own business and see what its like from behind the counter.

mike in co

[Adam10mm]

Adam i gues my point in all of this is that alot of people are blaming cci and federal and ww for these big price increases.
People that blame them have no clue how the industry operates.


Ive heard alot about the so called skyrocketing metal prices ect but bottom line is that if they have raised there prices its been a drop in the bucket of the increase weve seen.
Correct. Like I stated above, my cost went up only 24 cents per thousand.


I cant imagine the profits companys like midway, graffs ect have made off of compontents in this shortage.
I haven't seen a price increase from Graf's. I don't shop at Midway anymore so I can't comment on them. Natchez had normal prices around $29/K shipped.


Now there may still be shortages of some things but the local gander mountain has there powder locker full and primers on the shelf (if you want to pay 5 bucks a brick for them) So basicaly supply is back so if supply and demand really worked wed be seeing prices come back.
I will, it just takes time. So long as the product sells at the price asked, the price will remain high. If no one bought at $5/100 for a month or so, the price would plummet.


This is more like starve and gouge!
Well, in reality gouging can only occur in a regional market with a necessary commodity, like water or food. Primers and gun stuff aren't necessary for survival so there really can't be any gouging. As I've said many times in the last two years, if someone doesn't like the price, don't pay it and walk away. People that pay high prices have only themselves to blame. People that complain don't want to take responsibility for their actions and seek to blame someone else for "forcing" them to pay a higher price.


Adam im more grateful then you will ever know for allowing me in on this. It does show you though that if you a small dealer that doesnt do alot of sales can make a good profit at 30 bucks a brick a big company that sells a thousand times more then you shouldnt be charging 20-30 percent more! Personaly i still think some yuppie bean counter dreamed this whole thing up to make a fast buck!
That's what I was getting at with my previous "economies of scale" comment above. Since I move a low volume I need high profit. If I moved high volume I can get less profit and make money over the volume. If a guy makes 5 guns a year he needs a ton of profit from those to be in business. If the same guy makes 5,000 guns per year, he can make less per unit because he will make more in the long run. The less you sell the more you make per unit. The more you sell the less you make per unit. Certain times they will be reversed, more volume more profit per unit, less volume less profit per unit.

The gun industry experienced all of this last two years. I saw the downslide last spring when a few of us predicted the AR15 market bubble would burst. Luckily we sold all inventory before it happened and watched others sit on tens of thousands of product with zero sales for several weeks at a time.

Pretty soon same thing will happen with primers. Powder is starting that part of the cycle right now.

[Adam10mm]

i have said this before, and i'll say it again.

if i sell primers for a living, and i sell 50k of them a month at $2 markup, which is what i did with wolf after the election, then that is all of $100 profit on primers for the month.
now i count on the 100 bucks as part of EVERY MONTHS INCOME.
when there are no primers to buy, i'm not making money.
when primers are available, i need to make money, because i have bills to pay.
on top of which the only primers i can get are wolf and the importer raised his prices 25%, and the distributor did the same.
now pimers i sold for 22 cost me 26 plus.
and i cannot get 50k a month, only 25k and most months none are available.
so now i sell at 33(33 PLUS TAX). that is aprox $6+ per k profit...but i'm not selling 50k a month , i'm not even selling 20k a month. so on a good month i make 120 on primers, but the extra $20 a month never makes up for the months with NO PRIMERS TO SELL.
QFT. Lots of guys fail to realize this part of supply/demand and its impact on small businesses.


a big company is not affected as much as a small guy when a single commodity becomes hard to supply.
midway may sell 200k of primers a month,maybe a 5 /k profit, so that is $1000 per month. i'm sure thier sales per month overall vary more than that.
on the other side of the coin, a small shop that specializes in reloading, selling 25k a month will notice $125 change in his bottom line......and even more when he cannot supply his customers with primers and they don't come in to buy the other stuff.
The trickle down effect. Out of stock on one product means less foot traffic and less overall sales, less profit, and then "where did that gun shop go? They closed? Why?"


i had a dealer pay me $60/k for cci41's that i had paid 10/k for. now put it in perespective. i bought full sleeves 7-8yrs ago and got a good price...my personal primers. last year when primers hit $80-100/k, i did an inventory of my personal stash, and decide to sell about 20k.
it was simple math, i had plenty and with the profit i can replace my primers later on a 2 for 1 basis. i sold primers at 60/k and will replace them at 30/k.....that is just smart thinking.

if you cannot deal with this...try running your own business and see what its like from behind the counter.

mike in co
Know lots of guys that did that and sold their "keeper" guns too just to pay bills that month because they couldn't get guns from their distributors.