30-30 Parent Case

[HEAD0001]

Guys I am looking to put together a deer hunting single shot(Encore) barrel for cast bullets. I like the rimmed cartridge idea for the Encore. I already have a 45-70 barrel. I am interested in what you guys think is the best cartridge where I can use cast bullets at their nominal velocities that would be most effective as a short range(out to 200 yards max.) deer rifle?? Any other good rimmed cartridges to work from??

Isn't the 38-55 based off the 30-30 case?? Thanks, Tom.

[357maximum]

30/30,32spcl,375win, 38-55 are all the same basic case.

30/40 Krag,348win,303 Brit, 307 win,7.62X54 russian, 444marlin..etc... all could be bumped up or down to make what you seek or used as is in the Encore.

Then there is the glaringly obvious easy as pie choice......a 20-22 inch encore barrel in 357 max ...it will kill any whitetail out to 200 yards in the right hands. I know a guy that has killed a few at that distance and a couple a bit beyond that mark with a custom barrelled 15inch encore pistol with 180-220 grain castings and a fullhouse dose of Vhit N-120.[smilie=1:

[303Guy]

For some reason that defies logic, I like a rimmed case. The 30-30 basic case looks so versatile ..... [smilie=1:

A 357/30-30 perhaps? (357 maximum performance and then still some).

Or a 357/303 (I would have said 357/30-40 for the longer neck but I have the impression that cases are hard to come by).

[missionary5155]

I would not over look the 405 Winchester..
Another one that would fall in there is the 414 Supermag. And while here the 375 Supermag will easily put down whitetails out of a revolver. Last deer I popped with a firearm was with my Dan Wesson 375SM.. Balistics are around the 38-55 with medium powered loads.
All those Supermags mentioned are right off the 30-30 head size case.
But just for pure and simple the 375 Wincheester ! There is no problem moving a 255 grain boolit at 1500- 1700 FPS. That is 400 fps over the old 38-55 load that probably harvested mor deer than all of will ever see. And a modern 38-55 rifle will do the same.

[Adam10mm]

A 357/30-30 perhaps? (357 maximum performance and then still some).

I think this is called the .357 Herrett (sp?).

[Shiloh]

For some reason that defies logic, I like a rimmed case. The 30-30 basic case looks so versatile ..... [smilie=1:

A 357/30-30 perhaps? (357 maximum performance and then still some).

Or a 357/303 (I would have said 357/30-40 for the longer neck but I have the impression that cases are hard to come by).

Rimmed cases are superb for the contender or encore series of firearms.
What about a 7mm Waters?? what about necked down to 6.5??

A .357 Max necked down to to .30 cal or less could be an interesting project.

Shiloh

[dragonrider]

What Shiloh said, 7-30 Waters, makes a 7mm boolit do what should. Like the 30 Herrett the 357 Herrett is a shortened 30-30 case. Most other calibers on a 30-30 case are simple neck up or down procedure, no altering the length of the case.

[mpmarty]

I wonder what a 45/70 case necked to 357 or even 308 would do.

[HangFireW8]

For some reason that defies logic, I like a rimmed case. The 30-30 basic case looks so versatile ..... [smilie=1:


Legendary gunsmith Roy Dunlap also preferred rimmed cases, and felt that rimless cases were a necessity forced on us by self-loading rifles and no great virtue in themselves.

-HF

[buck1]

30 40 Krag. Nice long neck good power factory brass avail.
Also the 375 JDJ, or the 338JDJ #2 From SSK.

[Canuck Bob]

30/30 or the improved versions would be my choice. Nice long neck and it has piled up more deer and moose than just about any other cartridge in short barrelled weapons. This would give you a big bore thumper and a deer cartridge from the same historical era which appeals to me a lot. Also the choices in components is spectacular with 308.

[HEAD0001]

I have thought about the 7-30 Waters. I know it is a dandy cartridge. What kind of performance can I expect out of the cartridge with a cast bullet?? What bullet??Thanks, Tom.

[303Guy]

JDJ - 444 Marlin case. If one can live with plenty muzzle boom, then a large capacity cased cartridge off the shelf could be considered, like the 303 Brit or the longer necked 30-40 Krag. I a 'wildcat' is to considered and 30-40 cases are available then a cartridge made by trimming off the case at the shoulder/body junction would make any number of possible choices in a fatter and shorter case, more suited to shorter barrel. Such a case would give a healthy neck thickness. One could even design a cartridge that headspaces on the case mouth. That way, the cases never 'grow' and very shallow tapered shoulder designs can be used. That's assuming the shallow shoulder angle has advantages to hand loaders and I think it does. Wads and fillers can be used (including waxy wads) and so on. The 30-40 Krag, 303 Brit, 30-30 and 45/70 cases have healthy rim dimensions.

A neat 'woldcat', easy to make is a 375/30-40. The necj and shoulder af simply opened up to 375, effectivly making case, which like the 375 Win, has a body taper that blends into the neck. That one should suit a short barrel as good as a 30-30.

[Doc Highwall]

A 375 Winchester with a Lyman 375449 GC at 1800 fps I think would fit the bill with 30:1 or ACWW for expansion and energy at 200 yards.

[rockrat]

How about the 307 Winchester or a really good cartridge, the 35 Winchester or even the 356 Winchester.. 38-72 comes to mind too and the already mentioned 405 Win.



Shiloh---Used to shoot a 30 maximum in IHMSA, about 20 yrs ago. works well

[paul edward]

Guys I am looking to put together a deer hunting single shot(Encore) barrel for cast bullets. I like the rimmed cartridge idea for the Encore. I already have a 45-70 barrel. I am interested in what you guys think is the best cartridge where I can use cast bullets at their nominal velocities that would be most effective as a short range(out to 200 yards max.) deer rifle?? Any other good rimmed cartridges to work from??

.30/30 for lots of reasons. Barrels, brass, bullets, molds and reloading data are readily available. The .30/30 has a proven record as an effective deer cartridge. Recoil will be mild.

If you are worried that this caliber might be a bit small for your intended quarry, then look at the .32 Special. The next size up takes you into the realm of wildcats. It is amazing that Winchester did not introduce a .35 on the .30/30 case (they went down to .25 with the 25/35). There are several versions of the .35/30 any of which would meet the requirements you described.

For the last 20 years I have been loading .30/30 for a Model 340 Savage. My favorite cast loads include a Lee 160 Gr RN GC and a 215gr 311299 RN GC. The longer load must be fed singly as it is too long for the magazine.

With a single shot rifle, you do not need to worry about overall loaded length of the cartridge. Or crimping, or full length sizing (once you have fire formed the cases).

PED

[Lead Fred]

I already have a 45-70 barrel.



Tom, Id say your already there. Our 30-30s sit dormant now.

[HEAD0001]

Tom, Id say your already there. Our 30-30s sit dormant now.


Boy I hate it when people tell the truth.:drinks: Tom.

[javelinaboy]

Back to one of the original parts of the question:


Isn't the 38-55 based off the 30-30 case??

If I am not mistaken, the 38-55 or 38-56 is the parent cartridge, with the 30-30 and 32 Special being made from one of those.

[TCLouis]

35 Remington RIMMED.

Cases from 303 or 30-40 and it ads that ever so useful rim.

Of course a plain ol 357 Herrett would be good or even the simple 357 Max. Max is a performer beyond what it appears to be in the longer barrel (heck in the short ones also)

Do a Google search there are a couple of good articles about Max's performance out of a carbine length barrel.

[303Guy]

35 Remington RIMMED.

Cases from 303 or 30-40 Now there's an idea.

[bohica2xo]

If you want to work on a wildcat, look at the 338 Marlin Express case.

Rimmed, and constructed for hard use. A .553 rim diameter. Good potential parent case.

B.

[w30wcf]

Actually.......the parent case of the .30-30 is the .38-50 Ballard cartridge. The .32-40 and .38-55 are extended versions of it.

w30wcf

[cabezaverde]

Now there's an idea.

35 Remington Rimmed

I have one in a Contender Pistol barrel that I picked up cheap - uses formed 30-40 Krag brass.

[paul edward]

Back to one of the original parts of the question:

If I am not mistaken, the 38-55 or 38-56 is the parent cartridge, with the 30-30 and 32 Special being made from one of those.

The 38/55 is indeed based on the same family as the .30/30. The 38/56, however, is based on the .45/70 family of cases.

Either one should be good for deer at 200 yards with cast boolits.

PED

[JIMinPHX]

What's wrong with the plain old 30-30? I load the 150-grain Lee flat point over RE-7 & duplicate factory cartridge velocity with better accuracy.

[Bad Water Bill]

How about the 22 Hi Power. When it was introduced they advertised it had been used to kill ELEPHANTS.;) Can't get much bigger targets than that. It is a necked down 30-30.

[badgeredd]

30/30,32spcl,375win, 38-55 are all the same basic case.

30/40 Krag,348win,303 Brit, 307 win,7.62X54 russian, 444marlin..etc... all could be bumped up or down to make what you seek or used as is in the Encore.

Then there is the glaringly obvious easy as pie choice......a 20-22 inch encore barrel in 357 max ...it will kill any whitetail out to 200 yards in the right hands. I know a guy that has killed a few at that distance and a couple a bit beyond that mark with a custom barrelled 15inch encore pistol with 180-220 grain castings and a fullhouse dose of Vhit N-120.[smilie=1:

I'm disappointed you didn't mention the 35/30-30 Mikey!!!!!!! :kidding:

Edd

[geargnasher]

Tom, Id say your already there. Our 30-30s sit dormant now.

Neither of mine do, and if yours does that's your own danged fault! I love the cartridge, especially in a strong gun (like a break-action Savage or TC). The 7X30 Waters is good too, as is the .307 Winchester (rimmed .308 basically), but I wouldn't want much of a .307 in a handgun personally.

Gear

[357maximum]

I'm disappointed you didn't mention the 35/30-30 Mikey!!!!!!! :kidding:

Edd

I am a bit :oops: to have neglected it myself. I guess I think of that sweet little round as the perfect levergun cartridge and it clouded my synapses into a short circuit.

[excess650]

The 35-30/30 and 35 Krag are both old wildcats. The 30-40 case opened to .375 becomes the 38-50 Remington Hepburn which is not to be confused with the 38-50 Ballard. Both of the previously mentioned 35s along with the 35 Remington rimmed(30-40 case) would be fine, but I would just opt for a quicker than original twist 38-55 with .375-.376" groove diameter.

I have a Savage 1899 that had been rebored/rechambered from 30-30 to 38-55 with a 1-12" twist, and has been my favorite cast bullet hunter/shooter since I got it. The 38-55 case is thinner and longer than the .375win case, so has more capacity. My chamber is a little large, so I tend to take it easy on powder charges, but still get about 1700fps from a 22" barrel with the 280gr Lyman 375449. Pet loads include 26gr Reloader 7, 28-30gr AA2015, and 32gr AA2200. I can load heavier charges at the expense of shorter case life.

I also have several 45-70s, but the increased recoil makes them less pleasant to shoot.

Other cartridges to consider would be the 40-50(1.88") Sharps straight and 40-60 Maynard(2.2"), both based on the 30-40 case and the 40-50 Sharps bottleneck based on the 45-70 case.

[Charlie Sometimes]

What is a 303 Brit blowed out straight?
Like 30-30 is to 375 Win or 38-55.

You could always shorten any of the rimmed cases to what you want- but I think most of the conversions have been done and standardized. Pick your caliber and look for the cartridge or wildcats listed under that caliber.

[303Guy]

What is a 303 Brit blowed out straight?That one's Kiwi territory - the 38 Hawkins. JeffinNZ can tell us more about it. Cases are formed quite easily but with a special sizer die that irons out the 'dough-nut'. I've made a few experimental cases but the one example that Jeff sent me is perfect. (It's a future project for a Lee Enfield I have with a rusted out bore).

The 38-55 case ..... but still get about 1700fps from a 22" barrel with the 280gr Lyman 375449.That's not bad at all! Taking recoil into account, how much more does one want?

[cbrick]

Interesting reading while wildcatting for the contender/Encore or lerverguns & 30-30 class cases,

338 GEF By Glen E. Fryxell (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell338GEF.htm)

357 Max By Glen E. Fryxell (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell357Max.htm)

35 Remington Levergun By Glen E. Fryxell (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell35RemingtonLevergun.htm)

Rick

[armyrat1970]

What's wrong with the plain old 30-30? I load the 150-grain Lee flat point over RE-7 & duplicate factory cartridge velocity with better accuracy.

That's what I was wondering. ?

[Charlie Sometimes]

That one's Kiwi territory - the 38 Hawkins. JeffinNZ can tell us more about it. Cases are formed quite easily but with a special sizer die that irons out the 'dough-nut'. I've made a few experimental cases but the one example that Jeff sent me is perfect. (It's a future project for a Lee Enfield I have with a rusted out bore).

I would have thought it would be a 40 caliber or slightly larger. 38 or 375 just doesn't seem worth the effort with so many other similar rounds available today. By "the dough-nut", I take it you are refering to any neck that is produced? Making it a more tapered case?

30-40 Krag brass seems to be hard to get in these parts. A local friend of mine can't find it anywhere, so I don't think I would use that as a basis for a wildcat or new barrel. 303 might be easier to find, but I don't see it much either outside of military surplus ammo.

This is interesting- I'm going to "look up" some of these for reference. Especially the 38 Hawkins (neat name)!

[selmerfan]

Another vote for the .357 Max barrel

[Firebird]

30-40 Krag brass is "seasonal", meaning the factories make it only when they don't have anything else to make. With the brass shortages just beginning to be made up, it may be a while before 30-40 Krag is generally available again.
Blue Star brass (http://www.bluestarbrass.com/catalog/nrbrass.htm) currently is listing both 30-40 Krag and 307 Winchester brass but they haven't updated the page in 6 weeks so it might be gone.