About to start casting my own 9mm, what am I missing?

[davestarbuck]

Hey all!!!!

Like the title says, I'm about to start casting my own 9mm for my Glock 19 and 26.

I've loaded and shot around 1000 rounds using the Missouri Bullet 115 gr. "Small Ball". This load produces very slight leading (smearing?) in my Lone Wolf barrel that the 19 and 26 share. This comes out with 5-6 passes of a bore snake. No brushing or solvent needed. This is after about a 500 round session so I'm not sure if it's true leading or a combination of lead boolits and dirty ol' Bullseye Powder. No stoppages were experienced, and the accuracy was well within the classic 8" "kill zone" out to 25 yards. Good enough for cheap practice fodder I guess.

Now I'd like to duplicate this load with my own boolits. The specs. on the Small Ball are; 18 BHN and .356" diameter (measured by me). From my reading of this site, I've gathered that the bore size is the most important factor. Since my goals for casting are focused on speed and economy, I've ordered a 6 cavity Lee TL356-124-2R and a Lee .356 sizer. I'll be using the Alox to lube with. Assuming I get a .356 boolet from this combination and my alloy, would this seem to be a good choice?

On to the alloy, I've got some WW ingots from an Ebay seller on hand. He reports a BHN of 10.5. Assuming I air cool, will this be hard enough? I've got some more ingots coming that have a BHN of 16, a Lyman #2 clone, supposedly. Would this be better? I'm guessing either would work?

I guess I'll list my equipment list as well, if I'm missing anything please say so.

Lee Pro 4 20 lb pot
Lee TL356-124-2R 6 cavity mold (and handle)
Lee .356 Sizer
Extra bottle of Alox
Frankford Arsenal Flux
Frankford Arsenal Drop Out spray
Lee Lead Dipper

I'm going to add some ingot molds later on, if I start smelting my own. Even buying lead on Ebay saves me half of the money I spend on commercial cast boolits and is a fifth of the price of "cheap" jacketed bullets.

I'll eventually add some molds for .38, .40, and .45 ACP if my experiment works. Maybe even a "soup can" mold for the ol 30/30.

Thanks for reading and this great forum!!!

Dave

[chris in va]

Sounds pretty good to me, although I'm still struggling with 9mm myself. Can't seem to get a good shape/size/load that works.

I'll just add two things. If you want to duplicate the 18+ BHN, you'll want to water drop. Not saying you should, just what you'll need to do to achieve that hardness.

Also at some point you may want to pick up a bottom pour pot. I found ladle pouring to be very slow and produced way too many wrinkles.

EDIT: I noticed you're casting for the Glocks. Do you have a LW barrel for lead? Polygonal rifling doesn't do well with bare lead.

[davestarbuck]

Yep, Lone Wolf barrel is being used. The factory Glock barrels worked fine for 50 rounds or so, then they started getting REAL hot. I pulled the barrels and they were leaded up pretty good.

The Lee pot I've got coming is a bottom pour, I bought the Lee dipper as a skimmer type deal.

-Dave

[Recluse]

Well first off, Dave, Welcome to Cast Boolits. Good bunch of folks here and the absolute top authority on boolit casting anywhere in the world. And I'm not being facetious with that statement, either. :)

Let's see. . . in order, I reckon--

"Speed and economy" don't exactly go together when you're first starting out in the world of pouring your own, so let's talk about your choice of boolit and mold first off.

I'd recommend the truncated 9mm boolit from Lee over the TL124. I cast that boolit and it gives me a friggin' helluva time trying to get consistent accuracy out of it--no matter the gun I'm shooting it from.

Secondly, no way would I recommend starting with a six-cavity mold. A two-cavity will give you enough frustration and significant enough learning curve without trying to pull all of your hair out with a six-banger right out of the chute.

A good rule is to find the boolit you really like, THEN buy the largest cavity mold you can find for that boolit. Helps keep your costs down and you did mention economy. :wink:

Now, as far as BHN. . . lot of folks brand new to casting get really caught up in the hardness game. I'd recommend getting caught up in the "casting quality boolits" game, because when you do that, hardness becomes less of a factor.

Waksupi, a long-time moderator and staff member here, posted the coolest, simplest formula for BHN, which is basically "2 less than velocity." Ie, if you're going to load and shoot to 1200fps, then a BHN of 10 will be more than sufficient. Air-cooling should be fine, but you can also water-drop to increase the BHN somewhat, and you can also heat-treat. Do some searches here on both. Lots of great information.

But more important--FAR more important--than boolit hardness is boolit FIT in the barrel. You'll read and read and read some more about "slugging the barrel." Can't be emphasized enough if you want good boolit fit which results in little to no leading and for more consistent accuracy.

Do a search on "slugging the barrel" or "slug the barrel" here and you'll find a wealth of information. It's a simple process and it's something serious casters do for every firearm they own and cast for.

Now, on to your equipment list--

Already covered my opinion on six-bangers. I'd start with a two-banger.

Lube? Vast majority of folks start with tumble-lubing and there is an entire forum here dedicated to strictly boolit lubing. Again, a wealth of knowledge and experience there--check it out.

And. . . a boolit does NOT have to be a tumble-lube design in order to be tumble-lubed. In other words, if you find yourself a good design that has the traditional lube grooves, but want to tumble-lube it--go for it.

Alox will do the job, but you'll get tired of it fast in its rawest, purest form. That's the bad news. The good news is that it is fairly versatile and easily blends with other properties such as Johnson Paste Wax, known to boolit casters as JPW, it can be thinned with MS (mineral spirits), etc etc. Again, check out the Boolit Lube forum here.

The Lee bottom pour? Not a thing wrong with that. I've been pouring from one for a long time. Some drip, some don't although with any bottom pour, some dripping is going to happen. Almost any picture you see of an RCBS ProMelt there is always an ingot mold underneath the spout. . .

The flux and dropout spray? Save your money as both are a waste of money.

Flux can be sawdust, paraffin, candle wax, motor oil, etc. Mold dropout sprays can actually make your boolits smaller in diameter which is not good.

Check out the Lee-Menting thread on the Molds & Maintenance Forum. It's an excellent tutorial on how to prep a Lee mold so that you don't need to smoke it or spray it.

To that end, buy yourself a bottle of Bullplate sprueplate lube. Don't even ask why, don't contemplate it, etc. Just do it. I think for ten bucks or so, you'll get two little bottles which is three lifetime supplies' worth--provided you don't knock one over and spill it (as does half the population around here). Bullplate will keep ANY mold working better and prevent it from galding, but it really does a number for Lee and other aluminum molds.

Bullplate is a sponsor here and you can scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on his link. Super, super, super good folks.

Lee dipper? You can use it to skim, I suppose, but you'll have better luck playing pickup sticks with your butt-cheeks than pouring good boolits with a Lee dipper. Besides, you got that bottom pour pot so you wont' need a ladle until you start casting long boolits for rifles or really big and thick/fat boolits.

It's kinda late and I'm kinda tired, so I'm sure I've missed a few things or not quite stated some things exactly the way my brain is trying to tell my fingers to think and type, so there'll be other folks along add to all of this.

In the meantime, again, welcome.

:coffee:

[Buckshot]

...............Welcome to the board davestarbuck! I missed the part in your post where you slugged your barrel and it was ?" x ?" :-) Your reported barrel conditions don't really constitute leading. Leading is only a real concern of it affects accuracy. The 9mm can be a pill to reload for due to so many makes and models chambered for it, and it's having been made all over the world. Add that the same deal for ammo and there are some really wild combinations possible out there.

Barrel dimensions, chamber dimensions, and case wall thicknesses all have to be checked for the best accuracy potential. You may find that your pistol really sits up and performs with a .357" slug? I have a Witness in 38 Super and once I got it figured out it does everything except give milk.

..............Buckshot

[hammerhead357]

Pick up sticks with your butt cheeks...ROFLMAO...
Bunch of gripey old Texans anyway....Wes

[Eagles6]

Good luck! You came to the right place for info, that's for sure. Recluse gives you lots of good advice.
Air cooled or straight water dropped WW should be fine for what you want. I shoot the Lee 124 TL TC lubed with Liquid Alox and have no leading with excellent accuracy.
TL is fine, read the info about using it, but there ain't nothing like lubin' with an old Lyman or Star.
A good load is the published 4.9 grs of Bullseye, fast and accurate. Though Bullseye is a bit dirty it is a go to powder with lot's of uses. No reloading bench should be without a pound.

[jonblack]

Recluse - I enjoyed reading your response. It was very helpful to me.

jonblack

[deerslayer]

If you are getting the lee lead dipper to skim the dross off the pot an old tablespoon works real good for me. I drilled a 1/4" hole in mine and when you skim you let the molten lead dribble out to save that part. If you try it you will see what I am saying.

Also a cheap hotplate will make life alot easier when casting. Use it to prewarm mold and prewarm ingots. Prewarming th mold will help get boolits coming out that are keepers alot sooner. Prewarming the lead helps keep pot temp more consistent and chases off the tinsel fairy.

[patsher]

Amen to what Deerslayer said about the hotplate. It's REALLY a frustration-reducer.

The other things I find helpful are:

1. a big slotted spoon (like school cafeterias use to plop a big spoon of veggies on your plate) -- for scooping wheel weight clips out, if you start smelting. About 50 cents at a thrift store.

2. a piece of soft wood ( I use an 6-inch chunk of 1 x 3) -- as a mold tapper, when the bullets won't drop out (whack the handles, not the mold blocks)

3. an old soft 100 percent cotton bath towel, folded up -- on which to drop the bullets from the mold

4. an old clean cotton rag, water-soaked -- to rest mold on briefly for cooling between casts, if needed

5. some kind of cheap tongs -- the place sprues, wrinkled bullets, and additional lead ingots into melter without burning yourself

6. a screwdriver -- to twizzle the valve on the pour spout to keep it pouring smoothly

7. a large paperclip and a pair of pliers -- to clean out the pour spout from the bottom when something clogs it

8. a Lee aluminum ingot mold -- leave it sit under the bottom-pour spout, to catch the drips which sometimes come, and the little test blurbs you let out to make sure the pour spout is open and ready to go.

9. a non-melting container -- I use a small strong cardboard box cut off about 2" deep, in which to place the bullets you've cast after they start to pile up on the towel -- and are still hot

10. cool bullet containers -- something in which to take them to your reloading area and keep them clean until you get ready to lube/size/load them. I use clean clear peanut butter or mayo jars

Think about your setup:

1. Where can you set up that the kids aren't around, you can ventilate (I set up on my husband's presently-unused blacksmith forge with hood -- put boards down to work on, the hood/chimney draw fumes up and away. It's ideal, actually). Before that, I set up on the tailgate of his Rhino, because I could back it out of the garage when the wind was blowing and get the ventilation I needed, then put it back inside when done. Ventilation is really important. Some of these fumes can be pretty nasty.

2. What are you going to lay your hot tools on -- skimming spoon, hot molds, sprue cutoffs, little hot lead spills here and there (none intentional, they just happen). I work on scrap pieces of plywood or dimensional lumber, and keep scrap chunks of 2x4 here are there.

3. Are you going to sit or stand while pouring? If sitting, how will you keep you legs and feet out of the way in case of little splashes? Which chair or stool, and where?

4. What will your layout be? Pot here, hotplate there, handtools just so, scrap wood blocks over there.... you see what I mean. Where will the electrical cords be? Do you need a short extension cord for the hot plate?

5. What kind of flux will you use? Where will you put it? Does it need a special stir stick? Where will you put the mold sprueplate lube? What kind will you use? I've used the 50/50 alox/beeswax stick, and it works fine, but I'm going to try the Bullplate these guys talk about. If your flux is old candle wax, you need to get it chunked up. If sawdust, you need a bigger container. etc.etc.etc.

You'll find more things to fuss with, but you'll figure it out all right. There's a ton of great info on these forums. Good luck, and have fun! I do!

Pat



4

[MT Gianni]

The best way I have found to prevent drips in a bottom pour is to melt your dirty alloy or ww elsewhere. Reread Recluses post. he got it right.

[deerslayer]

For the mold tapper I have an old hammer handle that I drilled a 9/16 hole about 2-3" deep in the base of it. I then drove a small finisn nail through the outside into this hole and filled the cavity with some molten lead. It is just the perfect weight for me and with the wood no mold damage.