Let's play a little game...

[S.R.Custom]

...It's called "Why I Hate Brownells, Reason # 321."

I received my Brownells order in the mail not long ago, and this was the packaging it came in. And the game goes like this-- see if you can guess what was in the box. (The coins are mine, and included in the pic for a sense of scale.) You get three hints:

1: The order consisted of exactly one (1) item.
2: The item's price was $14.51.
2: The "shipping" charge was $5.25

I'll post a picture and description of the item in a day or two. Wager amongst yourselves.

Good luck!

[Blammer]

It was a set of screws.

[Doc_Stihl]

A tap.

[oldhickory]

LUBE GROOVES!...You bought lube grooves! (they're much cheaper here, you know)

[Doc_Stihl]

LOL....

Can't be lube grooves. There's no way you could fit enough lube grooves in that box to ring up a $14 bill.

[454PB]

There's a dime, a nickel, and 3 pennies.....

I zoomed in thinking I could read the invoice, but no joy.

Spring kit?

[runfiverun]

chamber reamer that was only broken once.
a neck die?

[S.R.Custom]

A tap.

Oh. You're good. I see your cynicism, err, ability to predict the future based on past events is very finely honed... (see the pic)


Now compare that with the McMaster Carr order I placed on the same day and received on the same day. It consisted of taps, dies, polishing wheels, compounds, emory paper, boxes of screw assortments, grinding wheels... about $240.00 worth of stuff. And it was packed in a size-appropriate box for a shipping charge of $5.00.

Who do you think I'll shop from in the future?

For those of you not familiar with McMaster-Carr, they are a manufacturing and industry supply company, and have pretty much anything Brownells has (and much more) in the way of machine tools and supplies, at much better prices. This is their web address:
http://www.mcmaster.com

[/rant]

[Czech_too]

At least they didn't use any stryofoam peanuts. I take those to the local UPS store and let them sell/reuse 'em.
But, I hear where you're comin' from. I was just looking at the McMaster-Carr book for some stainless mesh to replace the bbq grill grates with.

[johnlaw484]

Sorry, guys, I can't play. Brownell's has always done right by me. On the rare occasions I have of my own accord ordered the wrong parts or they shipped the wrong parts, they are more than helpful in correcting the mistake. I have found their tech service to be amoung the best.

No complaint here.

[jcwit]

Thats their small package rate for hipping anything that weighs 14 oz. or less. Very reasonable in todays world, good gosh that isn't even 2 gal. of gas. With the type of business Brownells is in and all the small light weight parts they sell what do you expect. Where else can one go and get all the parts and odd ball stuff that they carry. Just got a single shot magazine adaptor for a Model 53 Winchester, tell me if McMaster-Carr has that, or anyone else for that matter.

I believe Brownells is doing a great service to the shooting and gunsmithing industry.

[scb]

I have to agree with johnlaw and jcwit. Brownell's has always bent over backwards to accommodate me. On orders where an item is back-ordered they'll send what they have and ship the balance when it comes in no charge. I'd say your solution is clear - don't order from them again. Who knows the loss of your business, 1 tap at a time, might just put them under.

[S.R.Custom]

...With the type of business Brownells is in and all the small light weight parts they sell what do you expect...

A small manila envelope, maybe? I expect a little of that John Ruskin common sense that they proclaim to have in so much abundance. (Actually, it's quite ironic that Brownells would hold Ruskin up as their philospohical hero, as "Old John" was a socialist, and a huge fan of wage and price controls. http://smilearchive.com/s/cwm/3dlil/eek13.gif )

[jcwit]

Right a small manila envelope would have worked. As would have the old string tied cloth bag with paper lable we used to use, or any number of different items.

But then with their amount of orders going out daily, do you suppose just maybe they have done a study and narrowed their packaging down to a few different boxes. Probably wouldn't make much difference to a company filling an order every 2 hours but being as they have to fill 2 orders every half hour it might make a difference.

Packaging can be a real nightmare for a company shipping large quanties of orders. At one time I was director of purchasing for a company shipping a minimum of 1,000 orders a day, and yes we carried the minum amount of different boxes possible.

With all of the above being said, if you do not like Brownells and had 320 reasons to hate them why oh why did you even supject yourself to ordereng from them and having all this mental anguish. Stick with McMaster-Carr and stay happy.

[montana_charlie]

If you need a dirt-common tool like a tap, why order from a specialty house like Brownell's?
If you want a tap, McMaster-Carr can serve you well...if you can't find it locally.

But, don't ask McMaster-Carr for a firing pin that fits some old discontinued singleshot.

For something like that, you will thank God that Brownell's exists...and you'll be so happy to find it, you won't be whining about the box it comes in.
CM

[Ed Barrett]

Brownell's has always treated me well since the 1960's. They stand behind what they sell. I have always been able to talk to someone knowledgable about me questions. I have no complaints about them.

[jcwit]

I might add that Brownells walked me thru fitting a Ed Brown barrel to a 1911 pistol that I purchased from another company. Yes I told them I purchased elsewhere and asked for instruction book to buy, instead the went out of their way and walked me thru it.

Do I care what kind of box they ship my orders in? Aaahhhh no!!!!

[357maximum]

They could have put it in a small 3X5 manilla envelope too small for their standardized label and then the USPS could have lost it in the sorting machines, in a truck or a pocket and you would be whining about how you never recieved your tap.:kidding: just a thought.

[JIMinPHX]

If you really wanted to save money, you could have bought an Irwin brand carbon steel tap from MSC for less than $3. Their shipping rates are also quite reasonable. Some people prefer carbon taps for gun work because if you do break it, you have a better chance of getting it back out.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=2093937&PMT4NO=83516613

That aside, Brownells has always been a fairly priced source of hard to find tools, parts & accessories for me. I'm sorry to hear that you had this one bad experience.

I had one bad experience with McMaster several years ago. They sent me a single box of bubble wrap via truck freight. I got whacked over $100 in shipping charges for a cube shaped box that was about 26" across & weighed less than 10 pounds. That's the only bad experience that I've had with McMaster. They are usually great to deal with.

Everybody blows it once in a while, even the good guys.

[pmeisel]

over the years, I have had mostly good experiences with Brownells, McMaster, and MSC.....

[sdelam]

LUBE GROOVES!...You bought lube grooves! (they're much cheaper here, you know)

Thats just funny.

[AZ-Stew]

There are brown, padded envelopes available that are about 6x8 inches or a little larger. I used to ship a product of mine in them all the time. The post office never lost a single one of them.

I've been to Montezuma, IA. It's not far off the beaten path. I'm certain they have US Mail, as well as UPS. They could have shipped the tap by mail with delivery confirmation, for about $2. And the PO would have picked it up at Brownell's door for free.

I don't know why some of the companies we deal with don't take advantage of the Postal Service's lower prices. UPS is NOT mandatory.

Regards,

Stew

[waksupi]

I've received things from Brownells in boxes, and padded envelopes. I believe the difference in shipping methods, may just be who is packing stuff. Last time I was in there, the counter person looked not much past high school age. I imagine the packaging may be done by after school help, rather than full time staff. Neither Brownell's, nor Montezuma, are a big place.

[JIMinPHX]

I don't know why some of the companies we deal with don't take advantage of the Postal Service's lower prices. UPS is NOT mandatory.


In many cases, UPS will give a company negotiated prices. If the company agrees to use UPS as their main shipper or exclusive shipper, it affects the level of that pricing. Most shippers make a good margin on what the shipping companies actually charge them.

[Tazman1602]

I don't know man. Brownells has always been more than reasonable with me. GREAT warrenty service, no hassles, they have treated me right.

...........but then I always order enough to make it worth my while. If I needed taps I'd order something else along with the tap I needed and even then I"d probably order 5-6 taps as I go through a lot of them.

Love Brownells for me!

Art

[Cadillo]

They could have put it in a small 3X5 manilla envelope too small for their standardized label and then the USPS could have lost it in the sorting machines, in a truck or a pocket and you would be whining about how you never recieved your tap.:kidding: just a thought.

Not to mention the THEFT that takes place at USPS. Over the last few years I've lost a box of M1 Garand parts and a high dollar pocketknife that were both traced to then lost at the local post office. About a year ago they finally arrested and prosecuted one of the miscreants, a long time employee, who pled out admitting that he had pilfered many envelopes for checks, as well as boxes thought or known to contain valuables.

I've been fortunate to have never lost anything via UPS or Fed-Ex. I know that there are others who have not been so lucky, but that has been my experience. I will not ship anything other than stamped envelopes via USPS unless the person on the other end insists upon it, but I always warn them first.

Just to play the game as invited, I logged onto Brownell's site and put a similar tap in my cart and proceeded to checkout, where I was advised that minimal shipping to my zip code would be $5.25. So my question is, where was the surprise regarding the $5.00 shipping? If I'm told up front that shipping is $5.00, I should expect shipping to be $5.00, not less.

I've traded with Brownell's for nearly thirty years and have always been treated more than fairly.

[edsmith]

the only way I would ship UPS is if there was not any other way to ship, I have received over 100 packages shipped ups,and at least 50% were damaged. I have had shipments lost by ups. I have never had a missing package shipped usps,and no damage. I think ups hires only brain dead morons. :)

[KCSO]

As I understand it UPS now has a minimum box size??? As to just throwing it in a padded envelope, that would be too easy!

[Shepherd2]

I'm another fan of Brownells. They've always treated me right and at times have gone out of their way to help me. The one time they made a mistake on my order they refunded what it cost me to return the part to them. I can't recall any other company doing that.

[mike in co]

Thats their small package rate for hipping anything that weighs 14 oz. or less. Very reasonable in todays world, good gosh that isn't even 2 gal. of gas. With the type of business Brownells is in and all the small light weight parts they sell what do you expect. Where else can one go and get all the parts and odd ball stuff that they carry. Just got a single shot magazine adaptor for a Model 53 Winchester, tell me if McMaster-Carr has that, or anyone else for that matter.

I believe Brownells is doing a great service to the shooting and gunsmithing industry.

guys i like brownells also...great company...

BUT
they need to move into the 21st century in shipping.....

there is no excuse for a $14 shipping bill on a tap....just none.

first class mail less than one buck......

no excuse.


mike in co
edit..i have the dollar numbers backwards..and did not change them.....
5 is not outrageous shipping....but as i pointed out first class mail would have been cheaper....
while 5 is not as bad as 14....a buck would have been better...

[Elkins45]

guys i like brownells also...great company...

BUT
they need to move into the 21st century in shipping.....

there is no excuse for a $14 shipping bill on a tap....just none.

first class mail less than one buck......

no excuse.


mike in co

The Item was $14. The shipping was $5.25.

[John Guedry]

Was it that unusual a thread that you couldn't buy it locally?

[frankenfab]

I haven't read every post in this thread, so it has probably already been mentioned....

At least Brownell's still has a decent dealer discount on alot of stuff. Midway's is now a joke. I'm sorry that some have had bad experiences.

[AZ-Stew]

In many cases, UPS will give a company negotiated prices. If the company agrees to use UPS as their main shipper or exclusive shipper, it affects the level of that pricing. Most shippers make a good margin on what the shipping companies actually charge them.

Any company that uses shipping as a profit tool gets little or none of my business. That's why I buy from Midsouth as often as possible, rather than Midway. I'd wager that Potterfield made 1/3 to 1/2 of his fortune on his "Free Shipping", as was offered years ago. Buy one tap, shipping: Free. Order 50 taps, shipping still: Free. But the cost of the taps was 50 times the single tap price. The actual shipping cost was the same as the cost to ship a single tap. Not bad. 490 percent profit on shipping.

Exclusivity or not, it's a better business decision to charge the customer no more than the minimum possible shipping cost.

Regards,

Stew

[izzyjoe]

i'll agree with jim on msc good stuff, good price. somtimes you have to put youself in there shoes. if you put somthin' like that in a envlope it'll problly get lost, and you still have a mad customer. i've never had a problem w/ brownells or midway either. and i think the price of everthing is to high exept wages:( so carry on pard.

[mike in co]

i'll agree with jim on msc good stuff, good price. somtimes you have to put youself in there shoes. if you put somthin' like that in a envlope it'll problly get lost, and you still have a mad customer. i've never had a problem w/ brownells or midway either. and i think the price of everthing is to high exept wages:( so carry on pard.

sorry guys...
i have several suppliers that ship in enevelopes...it works and its cheap.....

[jcwit]

If brownells wants to ship in a box and when I click check-out and it tells me its going to cost $5.50 what in heavenes name is the problem. If you don't like it go elsewhere, very simple. an If they want to ship me 1 tap in a refrigerator box and they tell me shipping is $50.00 when I go to check-out and I OK it, its my go ahead. Good grief all this over something that won't even buy 2 gal.s of gas today.

Ya'll need to get a life, and enjoy whats left of it. $5.00 Man o man

[Ernest]

I have had truly excellent service from Brownells. They have been very supportive of me over the years with their tech line. I sure want them to stay in business.. A packing and shipping charge of 5.00 doesn't bother me much. It cost just as much to pay some one to package address affix postage a $14 tap as it does to have them package a $200 pistol part.

[Halfbreed]

Ernest, I'm with you on that. When did "shipping" prices depend on the cost of the item being shipped. When I drove trucks all over this country, the costs of fuel, maintenance was the same no matter what the price of the cargo was.
John

[AZ-Stew]

To quote myself,




...it's a better business decision to charge the customer no more than the minimum possible shipping cost.


It's not a matter of what comes up in the "Shipping Cost" box in the checkout line of some company's web site. It's a matter of whether the company is using "shipping and handling" as a profit tool.

I have NO PROBLEM paying any company whatever it costs to ship my purchased goods to my door. I DO have a problem paying $(fill in the blank) shipping and handling when the ACTUAL COST MINIMUM RATE is half or less of the CHARGED RATE. That's fraud in my book. If they need to charge me that rate for shipping to make up the cost of doing business, the price of their goods is too low. To lure me in with a low product price and then charge me excess shipping to make up the difference is what the AGs of most states call "bait and switch".

Don't get me wrong. I SERIOUSLY appreciate Brownell's vast array of products and their customer service. I've used it to ask about J-B Bore Paste that I bought 35 years ago before Brownell's bought the franchise.

What I object to is ANY company that charges more than the minimum possible rate to ship products that aren't ordered by priority shipping.

They're lazy businessmen.

Regards,

Stew