Ever wonder about Brass Anneal?

[Bass Ackward]

The age old problem is to answer, what is the current status of my brass? How do we know? Here is a method that might help.

I have noticed that using my Lyman 44 dies that I get different internal neck diameters on my brass based upon A: the brand of brass, B: the length of the brass, and C: the number of firings. The letter C is what I have focused on.

Most new brass sizes to .424 in these dies. Hornady brass sizes to .423. I expect that different batches of brass might well reverse what I have seen. Actual measurements are unimportant, only that it provides a future basis for comparison. Neither is pure accuracy as I used verniers to monitor these measurements.

After 6 firings, some brass will only size to .426. This may account for the reputation that new brass shoots better for some folks as they are getting better or more case neck tension.

After enough firings, all brass will size to .427. This dimension is the key because at .427, it becomes vulnerable to splitting of the necks either during firing or reloading. I never spit any brand of brass below this measurement. Doesn’t say that it won’t happen, but it establishes when I might need to anneal.

And if I chose to anneal, how do I tell if I have gotten it correct? I simply use my original data for new brass to know that I have either over done the anneal or that I have indeed done enough to stave off splitting.

[BeeMan]

This approach works well for me. Springback is a function of hardness and therefor a good relative indicator of the need to anneal. With relatively low pressure loads and a technique like this brass can last a long time even in a chamber with generous dimensions.

[Shiloh]

I'm not familiar with .44 cal brass as I don't own one. I do have a .38 special brass that has been loaded too many times to count.

I'll vouch for the longevity of low pressure brass. I shoot it till it splits. Some of my brass could be older than me.

Shiloh

[44man]

After hundreds of tests, new brass is never as accurate as brass fired many times because there is too much difference in boolit grip from one case to another. You might think the smaller sized cases offer more grip but it is not so. You still control case expansion with the expander die to fit the boolit. Too large an expander can ruin accuracy. Work hardened brass is more even and can hold a boolit tighter and with more consistency.
Lyman uses a long expander large enough to not damage soft boolits--not good for accuracy. In other words the expander goes in more then the depth of a boolit.
The ideal is to use a short expander so much of the boolit seating depth is left un-expanded so that the boolit will expand it as it is seated and the sizer should still be small enough in diameter to prevent a loose fit at the case mouth. Then use a hard enough boolit so it is not sized when seating.
Annealing revolver brass will give you a pile of trouble and for those that love soft lead, I can't help with accuracy problems.
I am still shooting .44 brass fired 43 times and never have a split case, in fact since 1956, I have never split a case. New brass has given me a split at the crimp, I toss it and the rest will last forever.
Not long ago I shot 3 shots at 200 yards with my .44 to measure drop with these old cases and the 3 shots were in 1-5/16". 1-1/4" groups are common at 100 yards and my 45-70 and .475 will shoot down to 1/2" at 100 yards with 1" common if I do my part.
Some spend a lifetime with measuring tools, the wrong dies and alloys and get nowhere.
Two days ago I shot a bunch of those little bottles of water at 100 yards from the bench with my .475. All were centered and if plotted I would have had a 1/2" group.
Leave the brass alone, use the right dies and the right hardness lead.
It amazes me a fella will get super groups with a jacketed bullet, then try to shoot dead soft lead.
This is 50 shots with new brass at 50 yards. Go ahead and anneal your revolver brass if you want the same thing.

[44man]

Bass and I have a long standing disagreement over revolver loads and I do love the man but he has never proven me wrong.
I firmly believe he just works too hard! :bigsmyl2:
I want him to get lazy like I am and do what works. He will never make those grease balls shoot like I do but we are both very hard headed! :shock:
The hole in the top of this can has 5 shots through it from my revolver at 100 yards. The other holes are from a friends rifle. Until Bass can make his revolver do this, we will forever argue over what works.

[Bass Ackward]

You can always tell from people's posts how they don't use their guns as much as what they say in the posts.

While a guy might wear his sidearm often, I find that you seldom have time to use hearing protection when the gun is actually employed. And no one can wear that stuff constantly, especially older guys when they get hair in their ears. :grin:

Once you begin to use a hand gun in this fashion (as a handgun was meant to be) you will lose the desire for ear splitting loads on a constant basis. Trust me. This requires different techniques from shootin rocks wide open which is the training method I use for new shooters because it is the easiest to perform. :grin

The whole point of that wasn't to tout new or used brass. Simply to give a person a method to identify where your brass might fall so you can have your brass where YOU want to be. And if you need or choose to anneal, a possible method that might guide you so that you don't end up with a negative opinion on annealed brass.

When you get to triple digits on that relatively new brass (only 64 shots) of yours, or decide to really shoot those guns, you may find that info worth considering. :grin: Ship me that new brass and I will break it in for ya. What a pal, huh? :grin: Better yet, let me exchange it for some brass that you are JUST GOINTA LOVE!!!

[Recluse]

Work hardened brass is more even and can hold a boolit tighter and with more consistency.

Back when I was shooting in matches, I would track the number of firings my brass had, then anneal the "neck" of the (.38 Special) cases.

Afterwards, I would generally (re)load and fire something like three to five times, then transfer that brass to the "to be loaded for match use" pile.

I was rationalizing that I was getting the best of both worlds. By annealing the brass, I was keeping it workable and from becoming too work hardened. And by (re)loading it and firing it a certain amount of times before using it for match competition shooting, I was giving it enough work-hardening to ensure that my crimp and pressure on the boolits stayed consistent.

Might've all be in my head, though. . .

:coffee:

[BeeMan]

44Man and Bass are welcome to sort out straight wall revolver cases. Notes are being taken here, but my most effective approach for straight wall cases is Starline brass.

My experience is specific to a 100+ year old rifle with a generous chamber neck relative to the throat and bore. Brass is seasonally available (not at all for the last year) and expensive. I tuned my sizer and expander dimensions to a 100 piece lot of brass and the rifle's chamber. This approach must not be too bad since targets show long term repeatability and the only piece brass not in rotation is in the dummy round drawer.

We will take different paths to meet our specific goals in this hobby.

BeeMan

[44man]

Back when I was shooting in matches, I would track the number of firings my brass had, then anneal the "neck" of the (.38 Special) cases.

Afterwards, I would generally (re)load and fire something like three to five times, then transfer that brass to the "to be loaded for match use" pile.

I was rationalizing that I was getting the best of both worlds. By annealing the brass, I was keeping it workable and from becoming too work hardened. And by (re)loading it and firing it a certain amount of times before using it for match competition shooting, I was giving it enough work-hardening to ensure that my crimp and pressure on the boolits stayed consistent.

Might've all be in my head, though. . .

:coffee:
Not in your head at all. consistent case tension is where it is and brass too soft is all over the place. As soon as you anneal revolver brass, boolits can pull from lack of tension, ES can be wild and only getting brass back to even tension will you find accuracy.
I found there is never a reason to anneal revolver brass.

[StarMetal]

I'm finding I like to "draw" the case neck rather then anneal it. I have been doing this on my 6.5 shooting. I have 45 Colt brass I've been shooting since 1970 and when I started to lose some to neck split, annealing took care of it, still shooting it, but don't anneal, just draw the brass now.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
THANK YOU ALL FOR THOSE POSTS.
More info. on what you mean by drawing brass would be helpfull.