.45 cal Pure Lead & Gas Checks

[guninhand]

My best accuracy in .45 Colt to date has come from using gas checked pure lead bullets. These were shot in a 1892 Winchester Mikoru 24inch barrel. The first picture, left target, shows results, 1.5 inch group from 7 shots at 50 yds using the Saeco 945 FK5 Keith style bullet, 261 grains, sized .452 with Hornady gas checks over 15.5 gr. 2400 using a cotton fluff wad over the powder. Speed around 1100 fps, bullets seated to the crimp groove in new Winchester cases, Winchester primers, slight roll crimp from Redding profile crimp die. Though new, cases had to be run through a full length sizing die first. Case mouths were flared with Lyman 45AP. Saeco soft green lube was used.

Only the open sights were used.

Right target, 1st picture, shows same gun and load at 100 yds. 7 inch vertical dispersion but only 1.5 inch horizontal dispersion. All 14 shots involved were fired rapidly from a bench rest.


http://www.hunt101.com/img/421062.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=421062&c=500&z=1)


2nd picture, left target shows results from same gun and load at 100ys fired when cold, 3 inch group with 5 shots. Right targets shows 50 yds results using a different mould, the RCBS 45-300-FN, with Hornady gas check, 328 grains actual bullet weight, same powder that went 1192fps. 6 rounds went into 2.25 inches and 3 more flyers are on the bottom of the target.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/421065.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=421065&c=500&z=1)

Prior to this, the best accuracy was from the Lee 452-255-RF over 6.7 grains of Red Dot giving 2.25 inch groups at 50 yds using HT wheelweights.

The RCBS bullet had to be sized down to .452 from .457. In all cases Lube grooves were filled before sizing to prevent collaspe. Should have but didn't fill in crimp groove while I was at it. It is a lot more trouble to get good bullets with pure lead and I cast with a hot mold and wet rag cooled sprue plate for best results.

Only by using pure lead was I able to get the Hornady gas checks on the Saeco bullet, and then not always. WW alloys with HGC splayed to get them to fit gave very bad results despite several enlargement methods.

The point of this post being that while a lot more trouble to mess with, you might get best accuracy with a gas checked bullet made of pure lead, and such a bullet should be perfect for hunting.

[Bass Ackward]

Nice work of adaptation and working around obstacles.

But some obstacles should be worked around only when you can't change them. Sounds like you got a large mold for some reason. Or possibly a small batch of checks? Have you tried another batch? I think I have some and I could send you a couple to try. Have you contacted the manufacturer of the mold?

You should be able to add a Teeny, tiney amount of tin to that mix that will allow you to mold much cooler and maybe smaller too.

Are you nose first sizing? Even if you size and lube in a lubrisizer first, nose first sizing where the bullet is pushed through by the base can square up a sloppy fitting check. I actually put mine on that way and then lube. I just roll the bullets on a case lube pad and sometimes this little amount of lube helps put on a tight check too. Or you can try Lyman checks that don't have that inner ledge for gripping. This is not normally the way to go, but does help to get a square base. Just to feed you some ideas.

[guninhand]

Hi BA,

I have 3 boxes of Hornady GCs and the results were the same. I've tested the fall-away Lyman GCs in .30 cal and they seemed inferior to the Hornady. I did quite a bit of testing with WWs and linotype and there was always some shaving or crookedness in trying to force the GCs on, splayed or otherwise. To make it worse, I sometimes have trouble getting the bullet seated square in the case.

For sizing I first did a lubing in a RCBS .457 lubesizer, then sized in a Lee push through .454 and .452. I put on the gas check using a .45 lead bullet between the push rod and the gas check, so that the full surface area of the gas check was being shoved. I did quite a bit of testing to get the most accuracy in the 1892, and tested using plain base bullets, Lee 452-255-RF and RCBS 250 SWC, using CF Venture wax wads to head off leading at these high speeds with 2400, and also at 800fps using a Red Dot load, no checks.

The 6.7 grain Red Dot load with the Lee bullet and ww/lino alloy gave a 2.2 inch 50 yd. group, the next most accurate load. The Fouling Shot #159 has an article on converting a GC mold to a PB using a chucking reamer, so I might go that route, and leave one of the cavities GC for hunting bullets.

I tried shooting the Seaco bullets without GCs and results were in the 8 or 9 inch group size at 50 yds. They actually shot better loaded backwards, around a 3 -4 inch group. It's kind of vexing because the Saeco mould, when using WW/lino, produces globs of great looking bullets fast and eaisly.

[Buckshot]

.............That's a shame about that Saeco mould. Looks like it'd like to shoot. Too bad you couldn't electroplate the GC shank to cut it down a couple thousandths :-). Did you try annealing the GC's before opening them up?

.................Buckshot

[guninhand]

.............That's a shame about that Saeco mould. Looks like it'd like to shoot. Too bad you couldn't electroplate the GC shank to cut it down a couple thousandths :-). Did you try annealing the GC's before opening them up?

.................Buckshot

Yes, tried annealing. I have concluded that anything less than perfection in seating and crimping a gas check means total ruination of accuracy. I even had bullets where the forced on gas check ended up looking square and Ok but still was very innacurate, so even subtle deviations from perfection don't cut it.

[Bass Ackward]

I have concluded that anything less than perfection in seating and crimping a gas check means total ruination of accuracy. I even had bullets where the forced on gas check ended up looking square and Ok but still was very innacurate, so even subtle deviations from perfection don't cut it.


GIH,

I don't know if your conclusion is .... entirely correct. There are guys that are taking PB bullets and squeezing on aluminum checks that are doing quite well. I say that because anything that a person continues to do, shows me that things are working for them. A lot of times with cast, we get one success story thinking we have found the holy grail of cast only to never use it again.

I have an LBT 375 grain LFN GC that has similar problems that I have to bell the checks. It shaves lead all the time and they still can be counted on for 1 1/2" reliably at higher velocities where the RPMs are high enough to stabilize them.