30-30 Loads for a 94 Winchester

[NickSS]

I shoot occational levergun matches at 200 yards at steel targets. The rules require no more than 1500 fps and lead bullets. I have tried two molds a lee 170 RNFP and a Lyman 311041 173 gr FP. I have been using loads consisting of 8 gr of Red Dot or 9 gr. of Unique with the boolets sized to .311" lubed with 50/50 Allox and Bees wax. Accuracy is top notch at 100 yards but I tend to loose accuracy at 200 yards with some evidence of key holing. I have increased powder charges and got worse accuracy at all ranges. I have also tried 5744 and 4198 loads with poor results. Does anyone have some advice for good loads for 200 yards that will be under 1500 fps?:???: :???:

[45 2.1]

Try the Lyman cast of no harder alloy than wheelweights, sized 0.311" and up the Unique charge to about book maximum.

[calaverasslim]

A quick thought. I use the RCBS 150gr FP with gas check and 10.5 Unique with good results. If needed you can go up to 11 or 11.3 but thats it. 200 yards is a good shot.:-D

[Newtire]

Hi Calaveras,
I wonder if you had any luck with that Unique 10.5 load and the 150 grainer with anything less than 10.5 gr. or was that the "sweet spot". I had real good luck with the "soup can" 113 gr. Lee but anything over 8.0 gr. and the accuracy went South. Was wondering which way to go with the Unique as I have a ton of it! I also have lots and lots of 150 gr. boolits!

[calaverasslim]

Hi Calaveras,
I wonder if you had any luck with that Unique 10.5 load and the 150 grainer with anything less than 10.5 gr. or was that the "sweet spot". I had real good luck with the "soup can" 113 gr. Lee but anything over 8.0 gr. and the accuracy went South. Was wondering which way to go with the Unique as I have a ton of it! I also have lots and lots of 150 gr. boolits!

A friend put me onto the 10.5 figure. I tinkered a little and going down I was wasting my time. By going up a little, I extended my range a little bit but got no better accuracy. I guess you could call 10.5 or 10.6 my sweet spot. I am hitting the 12" gong consistantly off a sand bag rest so I am happy. When I hunt, I don't take shot any longer than 80-100 yards so I am not too worried about long range.

I started using the Unique cuz a friend needed some ammo and he had the micro-groove barrel. Gotta keep them under 1600 with cast so it works well.

Hope this helps

[freddyp]

I would try a heavier bullet, that will keep you above supersonic speed at 200yds. It might be that between 100 to 200, your boolits are dropping below the speed of sound causing the loss in accuracy. The guys at RimfireCentral believe that a bullet traveling thru the transonic zone can be de-stabilized causing unexpected accuracy problems.

[NickSS]

Thanks for the info I will give it a try with Unique

[w30wcf]

NickSS,
If Unique doesn't work out, I would suggest 14 grains of either 4227 or 4759. Both powders give close to 1,500 f.p.s. in a 20" .30-30 barrel and accuracy has been first rate for me (1 1/2" @ 100 yards).

Good luck,
w30wcf

[SharpsShooter]

I use a 194gr RCBS 30-180-FN theat has had the gas check reamed off to make a plain base boolit with 10.4 gr of Unique. it shoots rather well out of a Whinnychester 94. The book says that load is 1519 fps, but you would have to chronograph it to be sure since the data is actually for a 183 gr boolit.

[calaverasslim]

I use a 194gr RCBS 30-180-FN theat has had the gas check reamed off to make a plain base boolit with 10.4 gr of Unique. it shoots rather well out of a Whinnychester 94. The book says that load is 1519 fps, but you would have to chronograph it to be sure since the data is actually for a 183 gr boolit.


IMHO, I wud suspect that this bullet would be going a little more than 1519 in your configuration. I wud start about 9.5 and work up if you want it under the 1500FPS mark. Just a thought.

[Char-Gar]

Here is my input on your question.

1) You would be better off keeping your loads trans-sonic out to 200. I suspect your loads and going sub sonic before they get to 200 yards. The speed of sound is 1,280 fps. If you start at 1,500 fps all you have to loose is 230 fps to go sub-sonic.

You are always better off accurcy wise to start sub-sonic or stay trans-sonic all the way to the target.

2) Bullets with a flat meplat shed velocity faster than ones with a rounded meplat. I would try 311291.

3) I have found 17 grains of either 2400 or 4759 will give about 1.7K fps with 311291 and has given outstanding accuracy in all 30-30 rifles I have fired and that is a goodly number.

That load should do what you need.

[fourarmed]

Chargar, not quibbling with the thrust of your comments, but the speed of sound is more like 1125 ft/sec. (343 m/s) Of course that varies some with conditions.

[StarMetal]

.....at 63 degrees F

Joe

[felix]

Joe, at what altitude and humidity? Need the pressure too! No different than an engine dyno. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Felix,

Exactly....see what I mean about too much high tech on the forum, one fellow states a bullet velocity, another gives the speed of sound, I give the speed of sound at a temperature, and you chime in with altitude etc.

How many guys would tell you that a car engine sucks in the air fuel mixture? How many guys would tell you if they put there hand over the carb on and engine running 3000 rpm and it rips the skin off it and they tell everyone it got sucked off. How many guys know what the absolute pressure is in their car tires.

Too much tech , too much.

Joe

[45 2.1]

So, just what should we do about this "Tech"? Dumb everything down so everybody understands it, or continue what we're doing to try to get them up to our level or above. Nobody popped out knowing everything, they had to learn it "Someplace".

[felix]

So, just call it 1100 fps, and that will cover most instances on earth (for guns). ... felix

[StarMetal]

Yup, that's good Felix.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Bob,

No, but look at what happen with the speed of sound. It got down to the temperature, altitute, pressure, hell might as well throw in fog, rain, and snow.

Has to be some happy medium. Like alloys for example, why not give the correct amounts of ingredients, without having to go into crystall growth and structure?

I'm part the blame too as I'm the one that threw temperature into the velocity statement.

Joe

[45 2.1]

Bob,

No, but look at what happen with the speed of sound. It got down to the temperature, altitute, pressure, hell might as well throw in fog, rain, and snow.

Has to be some happy medium. Like alloys for example, why not give the correct amounts of ingredients, without having to go into crystall growth and structure?

I'm part the blame too as I'm the one that threw temperature into the velocity statement.

Joe

This reminds me of a lot of things that are going on in government right now (and in the past). Like mushrooms, we're feed **** and kept in the dark. Be very carefull of what your asking for Joe, because it just might happen to you (and everybody else). Look around cause it is happening all around and most folks are to non-tech to see it.

[StarMetal]

Well Bob, I don't think tech has anything to do with what the govt is doing to us. I do hope the folks that are in fields that require tech schooling are getting it, like auto mechanics for one example. But I don't see what that has to do with politics and govt. One example of where the govt had kept us in a non tech enviroment is in the field of nuclear energy. There is no doubt they lied to us about that, but then again how were we to know as at the beginning the govt didn't even know, yes they knew more then us, but not even half of what was needed to be known. They definately lied about the effect of radiation on the body.

All I'm saying is tone it down alittle bit tech wise here. I see I have some followers too that agree with me. I'm not advocating getting rid of tech here all together. To tell you the truth I think some of the tech here comes from one forum member trying to impress other forum members with their knowledge. We're guilty of that to a degree.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

folks I am working on some very old memory about the speed of sound expressed in feet per seconds. The difference between my numbers and yours is easy to explain without resorting to such esoteric things as altitude and weather conditions.

The speed of sound has been around quite some time, and like me isn't as fast as it once was. When I learned it 50 years ago, it was indeed faster.

[StarMetal]

Charger,

You're right! The speed of sound has indeed gotten slower with the advent of jets and missiles...and some other modern implements.

Joe

[fourarmed]

It is not widely known, but the speed of sound also varies with the source. Sometimes when my wife asks me to do some minor task, the sound never does reach my ears.

[robertbank]

Sound has speed. Where have I been....?

Bob