Bought A5 Browning

[nelsonted1]

I'm not sure about where to put this so I put it here.

I bought an A5 Browning shotgun built in 1928 a couple days ago. It's is in good shape for it's age. The steel has some wear on the sharp corners- the bluing is thin. The stock is very nice until one rocks it in a darker room and one can see dents and scratches. Mostly what one expects from a well used but very well taken care of shotgun. I'm in love with it. I think of someone holding it in a blockhouse on the edge of an Indiana town heading off Ma Barker's gang or Baby Face Nelson.

What is this shotgun worth? I used a ten year old Blue Book which said about $400. Has the change to steel shot hurt the value of these old shotguns? I am chomping to try it out.

My uncle brought out his A5 hunting pheasants when I was little. Usually he and his son brought their matching Model 12 trap guns but Ed wanted to try out the old baby. As he was striding down the corn rows wondering where Peter Potter (our German Shorthair) went off to a pheasant ran down the next corn row towards him. Uncle Ed being very monetary grabbed the pheasant by the neck on the way by. As he spun the rooster around and around to break his neck the bird raked Ed's arm with his spurs. A few minutes later Ed hollered out "look what I got!" and showed everyone his hemorrhaging arm holding the dead rooster. Dad told him his fiscal caution was going to cost him an arm or something someday. He told us kids Uncle Ed was a real stallion.

TED

[Char-Gar]

The day I took my last final exam in Law School, I stopped by Glen Slade's Texas Gun Clinic in Houston on my way home. There is bought a Browning "Light Twenty) auto 5 shot with two barrels (imp. cyl. and modified). That was 1966 and it is the only shotgun I have hunted with since the day I bought it and it is still in fine shape.

I never took a liking to gas guns, having always favored that long recoil Browning design.

[JIMinPHX]

The A5 is a bit of a strange design, but it is a classic. They tend to be a bit heavy, but they are rock solid reliable. I think that they have sort of a funny recoil due to the way that the barrel moves back into the reciever when the gun is fired & then slams back out forward again, but I saw an old timer named Red, down at a skeet range in Miami hit every single bird he shot at with one of those. He was real fond of it & said that if he had to only own 1 shotgun, that would be the one.

I believe that there are some adjustments you make in the way that the recoil bushings get assembled depending on the power level of the shells that you plan to fire in it. You might want to look into that.

[captaint]

I bought a new A-5 Light 12 brand new in a department store in 1973. It was then, and still is my favorite shotgun. Never failed and has been hunted hard. High brass, low brass,and a lot of rounds of skeet - with a 28" mod choke no less. Love that gun. It will never get sold by me!! Now you have thinking of the days when we had lots of ringnecks in Pa. I keep telling my oldest son "One of these days we're going to S. Dakota. Gotta stop talking about that and start getting it done...... Enjoy that shotgun. Mike

[fecmech]

The day I took my last final exam in Law School, I stopped by Glen Slade's Texas Gun Clinic in Houston on my way home. There is bought a Browning "Light Twenty) auto 5 shot with two barrels (imp. cyl. and modified). That was 1966 and it is the only shotgun I have hunted with since the day I bought it and it is still in fine shape.

I never took a liking to gas guns, having always favored that long recoil Browning design.

There must have been something in the air in 1966! I finished A&P school in the summer of 1966, got my A&P license and a job with American Airlines in Detroit. That fall I bought my first "Good shotgun" a Browning light 20 A5 at Montgomery Wards for $165. and still have it today. Shot skeet with it through the 70's and 80's also hunted pheasants while we still had them and I use it for sporting clays quite a bit today.
The gun has had well over 60-70K rds through it and the forearm split at the front end from the barrel hitting it after each shot about 5 years ago. I repaired that with some brass shim stock and accra-glass and she's run fine ever since. I joke with the guys that I shoot with that shooting an A5 is like shooting a pogo stick because of the double shuffle recoil. Oh I also broke the firing pin last year just remembered that. Not bad for 44 years and all those rounds!

[JIMinPHX]

The manual is still available on the web in PDF format -
http://media.browning.com/pdf/om/auto5_light_om_s.pdf

The part about messing with the recoil bushings is on page 12.

[MT Gianni]

In Aug '77 I chose to buy a wedding ring over a Browning A5. Holly has been reminded over the years that " you cold have been a Browning". FWIW I still don't own one.

[Freischütz]

Unfortunately steel shot is not recommended for Belgian made A5 barrels. However Japanese barrels with Invector choke tubes are fine with steel.

Go to www.shotgunworld.com. There's a Browning section that should answer your questions.

[EMC45]

I have a Model 11 Remington. It is the A5 licensed copy. I bought it for 60 bucks for parts a year or so ago. I put about 60 into it and run it! It was made around 1914. The most expensive thing was the stock replacement.

[JIMinPHX]

I have a Model 11 Remington. It is the A5 licensed copy. I bought it for 60 bucks for parts a year or so ago. I put about 60 into it and run it! It was made around 1914. The most expensive thing was the stock replacement.

I think that the 11 came in two flavors. There was the 11 "Sportsman", which had a 3 round magazine & I think another version with a 5-shot tube. I believe that the later, gas operated, model 58 (forerunner of the 1100) also came in Sportsman & 5 shot versions.

[Crash_Corrigan]

My Uncle Leo, may he RIP was a Marine Raider and had a personal shotgun on those tropical island invasions. He had a cut down Browning Hump Back 12 Gauge with special handloaded rounds. He used steel ball bearing and large washers. He would stack the washers inside the case over the powder wad fill the holes in the middle with steel bearings until the case was full. Then he would crimp the round and seal with waxy goop.

He said it worked real good on charging enemy soldiers. He brought it back from the South Pacific and I as a 12 year old kid got to shoot it. We had a old outhouse behind the farm that was falling down. Five rounds from this old shotgun took it down in splinters. What an awsome firearm! Ugly as sin but very effective and highly illegal.

I had some strange relatives. A grandpa who hunted herds of deer with a BAR at the ripe age of 76 and took out 6 deer with one magazine. Major felonies there but the whole family was in venison all winter after that.

[1stSkink]

Buddy gave me a Savage 720, cause it "didn't work". Has a flaming bomb cartouche. Maybe I should see if I can get it running. I was going to sell it for parts....

[Southern Son]

I have only really come across 2 of them, the first was owned by the man who owned the property where I shot near Goulburn. I doubt it ever got cleaned, but it always went bang. The next one I saw was being used in IPSC shotgun matches. The bloke who owned it had put a magazine extension on the end of a magazine extension. I don't know how many rounds it held, but who ever did the work was not a gunsmith cause it was terrible workmanship. To top it off, the owner did not know how it worked and afer he emptied the magazine he went to put a reload a round in the magazine. Of course, it automatically chambered the round, so he unloaded the chamber and put the round in the magazine, and the gun automatically chambered it, so he unloaded it, and so on and so on. In spit of how poorly they had been treated, both guns kept on working. I don't think you could say that the A5 is a beutiful shotgun, but Browning was a genius.

[BarryinIN]

I love A5s/M11s. It may not get the most attention among John Browning's designs, but I think it shows his genius better than any. I think most people don't realize what an accomplishment that gun was at the time.

Before the A5, designers had been struggling to make an autoloading shotgun and couldn't get it done. The shells were the problem, since they were so inconsistent. They might be loaded with black powder, smokeless, semi-smokeless, and with wads made of anything from cardboard to cattail fluff. This in addition to having a heavy or light powder charge, varying shot charge weights etc. There was no such thing as SAAMI then, and if the shells would fit and fire in a single shot or double, they were good enough.
This drove potential semiauto shotgun designers nuts.

But John Browning solved it with a bronze ring. The friction ring gets squeezed around the magazine tube in recoil and acts as a brake. The heavier the load, the harder it gets squeezed, and harder it grips the tube. This won't cover the entire range of shells, but lets it compensate for quite a bit of variation. It solved the problem of the time, and did it as simply band easily as possibble. As others posted, moving the rings around for light or heavy loads lets it cover a broader range.

If you want to know how big a deal this gun was, look at this:
John Browning had the gun patented in 1901. There were attempts by other makers, but there wasn't any real competition until the Remington 11-48 and Winchester 50 came out. The Rem 11-48 came out in 1949, and the Winchester soon after. That's 48 years before anyone even started catching up. It owned the market for half a century, and still does just fine 110 years after it came out.

I've had a few A5s and M11s, but only have one Rem M11 now. I bought it really cheap since it had been reblued and polished with a vengeance. I had always thought about a "fightin" A5/M11 since they seem to be so dependable and rugged. Since I didn't have much in this one, and it had no collector value at all, it looked like a good one to experiment on. The result:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c240/ColtsR4Football/IMG_1497-1-1.jpg

If yours was made in 1928, it probably has the safety in the front of the trigger guard. I've heard of these being problematic. I've only owned one with that type of safety, and never had any trouble so I'm not sure what the problem is or if there really is one.

[fecmech]

"I don't think you could say that the A5 is a beautiful shotgun, but Browning was a genius. "

Actually IMO you can say they were a beautiful shotgun. The commercial models made in Belgium were excellent peices of work with engraving on the receivers, an excellent high polish blue and a well checkered and finished stock. Fit and finish was a definite step above Remington and Winchester auto's of the day.

[10 ga]

I have a Winchester 1911 "widowmaker" which was the original recoil auto and a A5 browning. The 1911 belonged to my grandfather and the A5 to his brother, my great uncle. The 1911 looks like and works same as an A5 but you load it by pumping the barrel back as if the gun were recoiling, no loading lever. The A5 has a solid raised rib and a "Pollychoke". Uncle had a 1911 but wore it out as he hunted it really hard and traded it on the A5 in the 40s. Both guns shoot real good and I make it a point to hunt them at least one time each year, mostly just squirrel hunting. When I take kids hunting they really like the A5 as uncle was a small man and shortened the stock about an inch and it fits kids good. Plus it's an auto and I supply the shells. Nothing like a kid with an auto shotgun in the squirrel woods. They get plenty but rarely are they one shot kills. Great stuff this is, best to all, 10 ga

[muzzleblast]

My grandfather was my hunting and gun mentor when I was young. He came from the school that thought a shotgun had to have two barrels, with two triggers. The instant selection of open or tight choke was one reason, but more importantly, the thought was, if one barrel wouldn't fire for whatever reason, you had instant backup. I was given a Winchester Model 24 double barrel (side by side) 20 ga. to start out with and have used it and other doubles since. I always liked the A-5 but didn't own one until a few years ago and I love it. It is now my favorite trap gun. I find it to be quick and natural pointing even though it isn't especially light. I hope to never be without one. I don't know for sure, but have heard the first official sporting clays match was won with an Auto 5.

BarryinIN - I really like your "fightin'" A5. My riot gun is a Winchester M-1300 pump. I works fine, but I have wanted to get a slug barrel for an Auto 5 and a magazine extension tube. But, I have not been able to locate an extension. Would you mind sharing where you got yours?

Ted - I echo what others have said about steel shot. You may be able to find an Invector choke barrel on one of the online auction sites. I assume the later Japanese barrels will work with your 1928 vintage shotgun. You may check with Midwestgunworks.com before buying one. They also sell rebuild kits and parts for the Auto 5.

[BarryinIN]

I don't know for sure, but have heard the first official sporting clays match was won with an Auto 5.

Could very well be. The Remington M11 was fairly popular in skeet shooting for some years. And it seems like skeet guns were tried a lot in the early days of sporting clays.
A good percentage of the M11s I used to see had barrels in the 26-28" range with a Cutts compensator mounted. I'd think it a safe bet that most such guns made at least one stop at a skeet field.



BarryinIN - I really like your "fightin'" A5. My riot gun is a Winchester M-1300 pump. I works fine, but I have wanted to get a slug barrel for an Auto 5 and a magazine extension tube. But, I have not been able to locate an extension. Would you mind sharing where you got yours?


Thanks. It does have style, doesn't it?

The mag tube extension is for an 1100/11-87/870. I don't recall what brand that one is- It's whatever brand I had handy. The M11 used the same threads as the current Remingtons. I don't know about the A5 so can't verify, but I have heard the threads are the same too.
The catch is that on the M11, the threaded area of the gun's mag tube is longer than the same place on an 1100/11-87/870 by about 1/4". The extension will bottom out 1/4" short of stopping against the forend. I had to make a spacer to fill the gap, so made it a combination spacer/light mount/sling attach point. It's two pieces of angle iron screwed together, so isn't the prettiest thing, but works.

Edit: Hopefully needless to say, but just in case- Resist the urge to install a mag tube to barrel clamp!

[Southern Son]

"I don't think you could say that the A5 is a beautiful shotgun, but Browning was a genius. "

Actually IMO you can say they were a beautiful shotgun. The commercial models made in Belgium were excellent peices of work with engraving on the receivers, an excellent high polish blue and a well checkered and finished stock. Fit and finish was a definite step above Remington and Winchester auto's of the day.

While I recognise that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, that big hump back receiver hardly has the lines of a fine English Double gun. HOWEVER, I am happy to concead that beauty is as beauty does, and (like all of Browning's creations), it is the best example of it's kind from it's age (and for more than a few years after it's age).

[EMC45]

I love A5s/M11s. It may not get the most attention among John Browning's designs, but I think it shows his genius better than any. I think most people don't realize what an accomplishment that gun was at the time.

Before the A5, designers had been struggling to make an autoloading shotgun and couldn't get it done. The shells were the problem, since they were so inconsistent. They might be loaded with black powder, smokeless, semi-smokeless, and with wads made of anything from cardboard to cattail fluff. This in addition to having a heavy or light powder charge, varying shot charge weights etc. There was no such thing as SAAMI then, and if the shells would fit and fire in a single shot or double, they were good enough.
This drove potential semiauto shotgun designers nuts.

But John Browning solved it with a bronze ring. The friction ring gets squeezed around the magazine tube in recoil and acts as a brake. The heavier the load, the harder it gets squeezed, and harder it grips the tube. This won't cover the entire range of shells, but lets it compensate for quite a bit of variation. It solved the problem of the time, and did it as simply band easily as possibble. As others posted, moving the rings around for light or heavy loads lets it cover a broader range.

If you want to know how big a deal this gun was, look at this:
John Browning had the gun patented in 1901. There were attempts by other makers, but there wasn't any real competition until the Remington 11-48 and Winchester 50 came out. The Rem 11-48 came out in 1949, and the Winchester soon after. That's 48 years before anyone even started catching up. It owned the market for half a century, and still does just fine 110 years after it came out.

I've had a few A5s and M11s, but only have one Rem M11 now. I bought it really cheap since it had been reblued and polished with a vengeance. I had always thought about a "fightin" A5/M11 since they seem to be so dependable and rugged. Since I didn't have much in this one, and it had no collector value at all, it looked like a good one to experiment on. The result:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c240/ColtsR4Football/IMG_1497-1-1.jpg

If yours was made in 1928, it probably has the safety in the front of the trigger guard. I've heard of these being problematic. I've only owned one with that type of safety, and never had any trouble so I'm not sure what the problem is or if there really is one.



Very cool M11. I cut mine down too. Don't have a mag ext, but realize the threads are them same as the 870.