View Full Version : Sizing 38/357
How far down the casing do you resize to? I did a bunch of 38's and went full length, RCBS carbide die, and some of the casings seperated at the web after firing, they were fired a few times before so they weren't new, but I'm pretty sure the full length resizing was the cause, any opinions?...............steg
Recluse
03-25-2010, 02:34 PM
How far down the casing do you resize to? I did a bunch of 38's and went full length, RCBS carbide die, and some of the casings seperated at the web after firing, they were fired a few times before so they weren't new, but I'm pretty sure the full length resizing was the cause, any opinions?...............steg
I do full-length sizing on all my handgun calibers.
I'm not sure what you're referring to with "some of the casings separated at the web after firing," however.
Number of factors can come into play, though--what brand of brass being key, along with how many times have they been fired. Also, are we talking about .38 Special brass or .357 Magnum brass, and are dealing the brass or nickel cases here?
:coffee:
Sounds like your brass is giving out.
Rex
BrianB
03-25-2010, 03:12 PM
I'll second the brass giving out. I use RCBS carbides and full length size and I've never had a problem. It does still seem odd, you should be able to reload .38's a number of times.
HeavyMetal
03-25-2010, 04:23 PM
The real question should be how hot is the load you put in that 38 special case?
Case's can and do "wear" out but usually it's neck splits with pistol case's. seperating at the web indicates pressure sizing is just reveiling the issue not creating it.
What load are you using.
mroliver77
03-25-2010, 04:39 PM
I have never had a head separation or anything close on a handgun cartridge. Cracks at the mouth, yes. Lengthwise splits yes but no head separations. I full length size all my handgun brass too. Interesting. More info please.
Jay
redgum
03-25-2010, 04:49 PM
Was there a Coonan or a Desert Eagle in the cases' past life?
They were sort of soft loads, 5 Gr red Dot in the 38's 5.4 Gr in the 357, fired from a Security six, and a Rossi puma, The only time it shows up is in the Puma, although I must admit that age is probably the biggest factor, as that was my guess too, but I wanted to run it by you guys and see what you thought, thanks for the responses Guys I appreciate it............steg
lead4me
03-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Was there a Coonan or a Desert Eagle in the cases' past life?
Why what does a Desert Eagle do to a case that a regular pistol/auto not do? I have a .44 DE and my brass seems to be ok for many reloads.
340six
03-25-2010, 05:39 PM
I have only seen what you have with 38spl cases that are loaded with full wad cutters as the whole bullets go inside maybe some was very abusive with the use of fullwads in their past life?
stubert
03-25-2010, 06:06 PM
I shoot 44 mag. I full length resize and shoot almost all full power loads, I can't remember the last time I lost a case. If it only does it in the Rossi, I would look at the revolver not the cases.
wistlepig1
03-25-2010, 07:19 PM
I have lost many case to neck cracks and sometimes side cracks but I don't recall ever one to head seperation, pistol only. FYI
redgum
03-25-2010, 08:10 PM
Why what does a Desert Eagle do to a case that a regular pistol/auto not do? I have a .44 DE and my brass seems to be ok for many reloads.
Probably nothing.... just wondering if a combination of 357 magnum pressures & repeated extraction might weaken an old case in the web area.
(just a thought )
Shiloh
03-26-2010, 06:07 AM
Mine split at the necks and down. Sometimes in the middle and up to the neck. I have .38 special cases that are almost as old as I am. Target loads last a lon, long time.
Shiloh
243winxb
03-26-2010, 06:23 AM
How far down the casing do you resize to? Adjust your RCBS carbide die so there is 1/16" gap between the die & shell holder or about the thickness of a nickel,as per RCBS instructions. Other than that its a brass problem.
The problem only shows up in the rifle, not the revolver, rifle could be causing more pressure than the revolver in the same loads, I still think it's the age of the cases..........steg
hamour
03-26-2010, 05:04 PM
Could be a case of too much head space on the rifle. This would cause the problem described. The case should seperate just infront of the rim by about 1/4"
243winxb
03-26-2010, 07:50 PM
They were sort of soft loads, 5 Gr red Dot in the 38's 5.4 Gr in the 357, fired from a Security six, and a Rossi puma, The only time it shows up is in the Puma, although I must admit that age is probably the biggest factor, as that was my guess too, but I wanted to run it by you guys and see what you thought, thanks for the responses Guys I appreciate it............steg Alliant current data for 38 special +P shows a maximum of 3.8gr. with a Speer 158gr. LSWC @ 846fps. For 357mag there is no current data using Red Dot. Your brass is coming apart because its loaded to hot. What bullet are you using?
fatelk
03-26-2010, 10:50 PM
It's interesting how data changes over the years. I've been carefully working up some loads with some old discontinued powders and noticed that the max loads in .38 special especially were far higher in old manuals. My Speer #8 (1970) lists 4.7gr Red Dot as max for a 158gr SWC. Most other powders listed are higher than current manuals list, too. Makes me wonder..
The only time I ever had a pistol case separate that way, it was a too-hot loaded .44 mag fired in a Marlin lever-action rifle.
Gohon
03-26-2010, 11:47 PM
Old manuals use old powders. Formulas change and load date changes follow, not to mention better testing procedures often show old data was not as safe as they were thought to be.
sagacious
03-27-2010, 12:18 AM
I have seen a few pieces of 38Special balloon-head brass that had experienced a case-head separation, or an incipient circumferential case-head crack that was nearly a complete separation. Not my loads, but I picked them up with my brass at the range and dicovered the case-failure when sorting the brass. If I remember correctly, it was REM-UMC headstamp. You may have picked-up and loaded some old balloon-head cases.
Inspect your cases that have 'old' headstamps very carefully. The cautions one reads in the reloading manuals about ballon-head brass appear to be quite true.
giz189
03-27-2010, 12:43 AM
Old manuals use old powders. Formulas change and load date changes follow, not to mention better testing procedures often show old data was not as safe as they were thought to be.What Gohon said is true. Add to that the litigous nature of today and an over abundance of lawyers and the folks who write the manuals try to write themselves in a margin of safety in each one. IMO :castmine:
243winxb
03-27-2010, 08:12 AM
fatelk, i have the Speer #8 also, i was going to post what you did, but best to go with current data. Powders and testing have changed a lot in 40 years.
I did make up this load following the parameters form an old Lyman manual, I had a lot of red dot around as I gave up on small game hunting around here, and I still have a very small ammount of that same powder I was using then, their are no signs of pressure at all, and It only happens in my old 38 cases, never in 357 as those cases are still reletavley new, leading me to believe that it is the age and number of times they were reloaded, if I sort through them I could probably find a few old military cases in 38, they have been around for quite some time. It's not really a problem for me as I fire the rifle as a single shot, and when I get seperation I have a soft metal tool that I made up to remove the part that's left in the chamber, I hate to just discard them as they are my rat dump rounds, actually there arent any "rat dumps" around here anymore, but they were a fun place to shoot, those rats were shot at so much they had a college equilivency degree on stealth, if you did manage to hit one it was a trophy
243winxb
03-27-2010, 11:35 AM
Start low on the powder charge and work up as i am sure you have. When changing a component start over is a good rule. Your brass just might be old and tired.[smilie=s:
lwknight
03-27-2010, 12:30 PM
I have picked up range brass that was so swollen at the web that you could see a definate size change at the web after resizing. None ever separated but a few would not go into my cylinder.
1Shirt
03-27-2010, 02:17 PM
I full length size all straight wall pistol cases, always have. Like some others have said, sounds like your brass has been shot to many times and has crapped out on you.
1Shirt!:coffee:
never had one separate like that,,,either in my .38 or my .357.....my brass lasts and lasts but then I my hand loads are all on the mild to midling hot range. Very seldom have I pushed them to the top limit. And Im shooting in a revolver not an automatic,,,,I can understand that the auto ejection might be harder on the case than would be for a revolver
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