View Full Version : 311284 loading question
07-07-2006, 11:59 AM
I recently cast some 311284 bullets and am trying to seat them in 30-06 cases . If the die is far enough into the press to use the crimping ring, the seater plug pushes the bullet in much to far. If I back the die out so the seater plug can properly seat the bullet, the case cannot have its neck crimped becuase the crimping ring is too high. I ended up doing it in two steps. Seat the bullets then remove the plug and then adjust the die to crimp.
I have no objection to doing it in a two step process but was just wondering if I have missed something along the way?
07-07-2006, 12:10 PM
Always crimp in a seperate operation for accuracy results. For pistols, like when shooting at close up targets in rapid fire mode, you can save time in making that kind of ammo by crimping and seating with the same stroke. ... felix
07-07-2006, 04:14 PM
THank you for the information. :) After I thought about it for a while splitting the operations up makes perfect sense:) If I put an extra lock ring on the seater die it will give me enough clearance for the seater plug to work. then all I have to do is remove the plug and the extra ring and I will be back in the crimp.
07-07-2006, 04:22 PM
Actually in a bolt rifle you don't need to crimp your loads. Now if you flared the case mouths to ease bullet insertion, they you nee to turn that flare back in and in my opinion that can be don't in one step.
07-07-2006, 05:05 PM
I find it interesting that in loading for my M1A, I do NOT really even have to remove the minor amount of mouth flare that I use on the cases.
I'm using the Dillon 550B to load these 7.62 NATO rounds, with a Lee neck-flaring die at Station Three (just after the powder measure). The bullet is seated at Station Four, without removing the neck flare. There is no Station Five, of course.
EVERY ROUND is gauged with a Wilson cartridge gauge, and with the as-mentioned small flare I'm using, all rounds pass the gauge test. The only rounds to date which have NOT completely seated in the gauge were ones with minor burring on the rim, usually created by the extractor. A stroke or two with a flat needle file, and the rounds drop right into the gauge.
When I finally settle on some standard loads for the rifle and produce a lot of same, I'll undoubtedly take the extra step and turn that flare in again to make straight necks, if only because they look better (grin). As it is, the rifle functions perfectly with the flared-neck rounds. I never would've believed it, except for the fact that hundreds of them have already cycled flawlessly through the rifle!
07-07-2006, 09:24 PM
THank you both for the info. when I mentioned crimping I should have said it was just to remove the slight flare caused by the M die. For anyone interested, I'm shooting a BSA sporterized P-17 action. THe bore measures 0.3075 and my bullets come from the mold at just over 0.308 cast from straight lino.Sized to 0.308 and best group so far is that bullet over 40.7 gr 4831.
07-09-2006, 07:10 AM
I really like the lee factory crimp die. It's another operation but, in my view worth it. Doesn't take much longer then backing off the bullet seater plug to use the roll crimp feature built into the dies. Also, I'm not restricted to crimping just in the crimping groove.
07-09-2006, 08:59 AM
I have been considering buying some Lee Factory Crimp dies for use in my cast bullet rounds but was afraid they might be too aggressive and might damage the bullet. Are they appropriate? I pretty much only shoot match bullets in my jacketed rounds and crimping is a no no so I never considered buying them before.
07-09-2006, 04:13 PM
I am about to step in it and show my ignorance...or maybe not.
The genesis is your problem is the 30-06 dies does not have a crimp ring in it. I have never known anybody to crimp a 30-06 round and have never known of an 06 seating die die with a crimp ring.
All dies do not have crimp ring..just those for rounds that are designed to have the bullet crimped in. The seating dies for most rimless rifle rounds do not have crimp rings.
Most likely you are just shoving the case neck into the top of the seating chamber and calling that a crimp. That is why you have to back out the seating plug so far. You are trying to do something your die was not made to do.
In a die with a crimp ring, you should be able to seat and crimp in one operation if that is what you want.
As the boys have said, the slight flair in not a problem. However if it bothers you and/or you "over flair", buy a generic Lee 30 cal crimp die and adjust it just enough to straighted out the case neck.
07-09-2006, 04:47 PM
I think you may be wrong. I know the old two die rifle sets all use to have a crimping ledge in the seating dies. Almost all caliber rifle bullets have a cannelure. Look at 30-06 factory ammo, alot of the bullets are cannelured and crimped. You can buy the same factory bullets with the cannelure. There are more reasons to crimp a bullet then just it's use in a tubular leveraction rifle magazine or for a semi-auto rifle. Remember the old saying if you are going to crimp with the factory seating die that you have to make sure your cases are all trimmed to the exact same length so you don't buckle the shoulder on one that was a tad longer then the rest? It's eays to screw the seater plug out and look into the die and where the neck portion is if you see a step up ledge to a smaller diameter, then it will crimp. I just went out to the shop and checked two dies sets, a 30-06 and a 8x57 mauser, both by Lee. They crimp.
07-09-2006, 07:31 PM
Well live and learn
07-10-2006, 11:49 AM
My RCBS die does indeed have a crimping ridge in it. Its an older die. prolly made around 1970. I now have a Lee crimping die that I can look down into and oh so genly take out the flare on the neck. The nice thing about it is you can actually watch it happening and know you are crimping right where you want it to be. That said, if it doesnt shoot well now its my fault. Cant blame the ammo or the tools:)
07-10-2006, 06:57 PM
Sounds like you got it figured out.
I'm expecting that you will have some record groups when we get to the range on Friday. :kidding:
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