bullet not centered in case

[jbunny]

does anyone have a trick for seating a bullet in the case centered. the brass
will strech more on one side and the buellet is not centered and i,m
sure that affect accuracy. i know, neck turnning, and bigger neck expander.
opening up the sizzer die would create a can of worms with all the diff bullet sizes.
thanks
jb

[sundog]

You cannot trick boolits. You have answered your own question.

Brass that is fire formed, neck sized, neck turned, annealed if needed, and a case mouth properly belled or stepped to accept a boolit, are the most common practices.

[HORNET]

jbunny,
Is it off-center or is it tipped? You might take a good luck on what your seating punch is doing. I've had problems with the Lee Dead-Length Seating Die not lining things up very well, still working on an acceptable solution. Sundog pretty much lists the case prep options.

[jbunny]

the buletts are not tipped. i have noticed this on all of my straight walled
cases, 9mm, 357mag and max, 44 mag ect, it's worse with cast as the boolits
are over sized. it does not matter useing new or 20 times fired brass. some will load
with the bulge even all around and the back to the bulge on one side only. i asked
if anybody had a trick to stop this. i have never heard of anybody neck turning
pistol brass.
thanks
PS i'm sure that i'm not alone with problem.
jb

[garandsrus]

jnunny,

You might be excessively sizing the cases. Back off the die and see when/where the problem goes away.

John

[RICKLANDES]

Are you using a collet or a taper die at the end of the seating process? If you are you can crimp the bullet , turn it a small 1/4 turn and crimp again. This will often "square" a bullet to the case.

I would recheck that seating die it should not be allowing a off center seat; if it does I would call the company.
The equipment you are using would be nice to know too...perhaps something in your combination would be seen...

[jbunny]

John; u mean neck size just a 1/4 in of the case neck. that would not leave much
gripping the boolit. i read somewhere on here that crimping lead is not good for accuracy. thanks
jb

[303Guy]

I had that with my 9mm. Never solved the problem. The brass is being stretched to its yield point by the seated boolit. Custom sizing dies?

[HORNET]

Sorry, jb, I've never noticed that on pistol brass. The way I shoot, I wouldn't notice anyway.
IIRC, 44man has mentioned backing the sizing die off and only partial sizing the cases to the depth that the boolit seats. Said it worked like neck-sizing rifle brass and lined things up better in the chambers.

[Doc Highwall]

You have to use something like the Lyman M-die that will not only bell the case mouth but also open up the neck portion of the case that holds the bullet. If your gun slugs .357" and you size your bullets .359" your expander should measure .357" to .358" for .001" to .002" press fit of the bullets.

[243winxb]

the boolits
are over sized If your not sizing your cast boolits, its time you start. Normal diameters used are well know, and shoot fine in 99% of handguns. Some case bulge is normal at times and does not hurt accuracy. IMO.

[Mk42gunner]

Check the alignment of the ram in your press since this happens to different calibers, it doesn't sound like it is your dies. Another thing to try is seating the bullet halfway then turning the case 180 degrees to finish seating; although this has always seemed excessively anal to me.

Robert

[lead4me]

I had the same problem with the .45 cast boolits, they looked like they were in correct but had a slight bulge on one side. I took the .45 expander apart and ground it back so that it opened the case to .454 problem solved and no "bell" at the top of the case. It seems like the die company's set their dies up to run J-bullets at a standard .451 my 1911 like a boolit more at .452/3 with the .45 I have heard that a .45 long colt expander will also work to solve your problem.

[prs]

The vast majority of the pistol round dies available have internal sizers dimensioned for best advantage with copper condom bullets. Lead boolits are better served with a slightly larger dimension. The M die mentioned may work, but they are more for rifle, right? The RCBS Cowboy dies are/were dimensioned for lead and come with internal sizers that are very nice for our boolits. My 45 Colt set came with internal sizers machined to accomodate .452 lead boolits and also .454 lead boolits. Very nice. Lee has a universal internal sizer, I think, not sure of its dimensions. Lee told me it would be cost prohibitive to make up a batch of custom for lead only powder through expanders. I lost the lop sided bulges with the Cowboy dies in .454 Colt, but it didn't improve my shooting any.

prs

[chboats]

I have the same problem especially with boolits. In the photo you can see the bulge the bullet creates. I use a carbide die that sizes the cases smaller than I would like. I have tried 3 different dies from 3 manufactures and they all size to the same size. A larger expander would have the same effect. Have tried to lap out the die but but after 2 hours of work it was only opened .0001. Some times the case stretching is centered and sometimes not. If the size die could be opened up it would at least lessen the problem. But how do you open a carbide die?????

Carl

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu158/chboats/G%20stuff/IMG_5318c.jpg (http://s643.photobucket.com/albums/uu158/chboats/G%20stuff/?action=view&current=IMG_5318c.jpg)

[steg]

I had that problem when I tried shooting as cast in my 357 didn't seem to hurt accuracy any, I still missed what I was shooting at real good! but when I sized the bullets the bulge went away, but I still missed real good!

[jbunny]

Steg, Carl, list; i have taken and marked the high spot of the bulge with a
sharpie pen and u fire 3 with the mark up and then fire 3 with the mark down.
it changes the POI drastictly. it's been a while since i've done this so don't ask
for #,s. i guess the ones that the boolit is centered means the brass is the same thickness all around and and streches evenly all around. i have made special decaping
rods for my dies so the rod controls the sizeing depth on the case. i was hopeing
for someone to have solved this problem. i think u could open up the carbide
die with a small diamond file clamped in a lathe tool holder, spinning the die as
fast as u can and moveing the carrige back and forth. must do that one day soon.
then the question is how much??? diff batch and brand and diff thickness.
OBTW. i shoot all these pistol cartridges in rifles only and i beleive it affects
the accuracy more the handguns. i could be wrong on that one. i'm still hopeing
that someone has found the cure. thanks
jb
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/MOUICH/decapingrod.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/MOUICH/?action=view&current=decapingrod.jpg)

[Doc Highwall]

chboats, the picture you posted says a thousand words about sizing dies oversizing the case, it also shows why it is very important to expand the case with something like a Lyman M-die and not just bell the case mouth. I make my own M-dies so that the small diameter is only .001" to .002" smaller the the size that I size my bullets to and the large diameter is .002" to .003" larger then the size that I size my bullets to.

[chboats]

On my rifle calibers I use the RCBS expander dies. I can get a .358 expander which will help with the boolits seating but it does not address the off center or over working the brass problems. I guess I need to find someone with a lathe and try to open up the size die. I measure the expanded area of the bullet in the photo and the area below the bullet. there was .006 difference. (edit: screwed the math) There should be no need to size the case down that small.

Thanks

Carl

[Doc Highwall]

That is too much, and leads to premature case failure and inaccurate loads. I would try to send it back to the manufacture to be fixed.

[Marlin Hunter]

You didn't mention what brand of dies you use. I see a Lee press turret block, and Lee crimp die, but the micrometer seat die doesn't look like a Lee die. I have noticed that my Hornady neck expander die will sometimes put an off-center bulge in a straight case if the case is not centered on the shell plate. Check the brass case right before you install the boolit.

[243winxb]

jbunny, Custom steel dies could be made to match your handgun brass, they do it for rifles, why not handgun brass. Contact Redding and others by email. They will give you a price. Standard dies must work with all different brands of brass no matter what the case/neck wall thickness. They size the brass down way to much, then the expander has to open it to the correct inside diameter. Bushing dies are made for rifles to solve brass wall thickness problems, not pistol, maybe in the future??

[dbldblu]

I second everything Doc Highwall said. When I seat boolits, I want the case neck ID to be .001 less than the boolit diameter. Most die sets will leave you with .004 to .006 smaller case neck ID. What you get then is your boolits get sized down by the case and, also, you get excessive runout (rifle) or a lopsided appearance (handgun). I make my own size buttons for the M die. If you buy a "30L" M die from Lyman, the button will probably be .307". This is fine for .308 boolits. If you want to use .310" boolits, you need a .309" button, IMO.

[prs]

You could try sizing (not post sizing) with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It would be at about max of tolerance -- IF small enough to work.

prs

[jbunny]

prs; i just checked that and it might work and that u got me thinking, 9mm.
i use lee 38 dies for my 9mm largo and my 357 max brass is loose in the lee 38
sizer die. i don't have any fired 357 max brass to try but will have soon. i opened
up the lyman 357 carbide sizer die this afternoon 2.5 thou with a diamond file. i just held the file in my hand and had the die spinning at 1200rpm in my lathe. the oval
file i had was real course and a minuite and a half was lots. i spent 1/2 hr polishing
and did,nt get it nowhere near mirror finnish. i think the right amount of sizeing
would be better the to much and then have to expand it back out. that is what the bullet is doing expanding the brass. i would be interested in hearing from someone
with a 357 mag or max with the m die if it expands evenly. thanks for all the replys.
jb