Cast boolits in autoloaders

[zipdog]

This has probably been discussed, but I want to ask anyway. What are the cons involved in shooting cast boolits in an autoloader? I have AR-10s in .338 Federal and .450 Marlin and would like to shoot cast boolits. Any comments, recommendations, etc.?? What is a good source for cast boolits to try before I invest in molds?

[mpmarty]

ZD I don't think there are any "cons". The 450 should be quite happy with cast.

[mooman76]

Some auto loaders are a little picky about the cast loads they shoot but most all can be done with a little finnessing. Sometimes particular powders don't build the pressure long enough or just enough to cycle the action but that's just a matter of changing your powder selection.

[Tom-ADC]

Only one I recall you could have problems with were Glocks and I don't recall how much was fact or myth.
I shoot them in my 1911's, Browning Hi-Power even M1 carbines.

[supv26]

I use my cast 230 grain in my Glock 21. I put a KKM barrel in it and it runs like a singer sewing machine!

[BD]

I'm shooting cast in my .450Bushmaster. The issues I've found are: You do need gas checks in a gas gun or the gas port will take a little "bite" out of the boolit base on it's way past. In an AR platform this shows up as lead plating on the rear of the bolt, (same place the carbon builds up), and groups about 6" in diameter @ 100 yards in my gun.

I'm currently waiting for some dies to make slightly taller gas checks as I suspect that my current accuracy limit of 1 1/2" @ 100 yards may in part be due to the gas check getting disturbed on the way past the port as the diameter of the gas port is greater than the height of the check. I'm hoping that a check about .10 tall will solve this issue.

Check the "Gas Check" room for info.
BD

[cricco]

I have heard that lead will plug the gas port in an AR-15, but I've never tried.

[Capn Jack]

Gas checks for sure..With out them you get "Patterns", not "Groups".

Takes a few more patches to clean, but Oh, well.....

[mpmarty]

If your shooting direct impingement autos like the AR15 then lead buildup in the gas tube could be a problem. I shoot a 7.62X51 Nato AK and all I need to clear the gas port is a bent piece of coat hanger. So far it's been "self cleaning" with cast pb boolits.

[Tom-ADC]

I use my cast 230 grain in my Glock 21. I put a KKM barrel in it and it runs like a singer sewing machine!

I have a 21 also would you put the factory barrel back in it and shoot cast bullets in it?

[Capn Jack]

Marty,
Will your AK do this?

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/200400600/Targets/36grH4198.jpg

Western Oregon Mts. Wish I was there, but I've heard Oregon roads are hell on propellers.

[Tom-ADC]

Wouldn't own a AK47 or its clones but here's 25 rounds that for these old eye's isn't too bad. Oh at 100 yds

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL174/1021972/1908390/357570616.jpg

[Lead Fred]

Wouldn't own a AK47

No one can own an AK47, if you could find one

[lonewelder]

Ain' to bad!Sir that is pretty dam good!

[9.3X62AL]

Tom, I ran A LOT of cast boolits through a stock Glock 21 and posted some results that should be accessible here with a search. No mushroom clouds--no cracks in the Earth's crust--and no damage was sustained by the time-space continuum during these test series.

I'm really going to invite infamy shortly, and will be running cast boolits in a Glock 23 AND ITS FACTORY BARREL. I'm sure a few here will choose to leave the country during that process, so I'm giving fair warning now. The testing will occur on Monday--March 29--at 9:30 A.M., at the RCGC Range outside Inyokern, CA. The resulting crater will be open to the public after post-blast forensics and incident scene photography are completed, along about 3:45 P.M. or so.

This will be a non-catered event; business-casual attire requested.

[DLCTEX]

No one can own an AK47, if you could find one

Yes you CAN. It does require a proper license and maybe a move to a sensible state.

[deerslayer]

Tom, I ran A LOT of cast boolits through a stock Glock 21 and posted some results that should be accessible here with a search. No mushroom clouds--no cracks in the Earth's crust--and no damage was sustained by the time-space continuum during these test series.

I'm really going to invite infamy shortly, and will be running cast boolits in a Glock 23 AND ITS FACTORY BARREL. I'm sure a few here will choose to leave the country during that process, so I'm giving fair warning now. The testing will occur on Monday--March 29--at 9:30 A.M., at the RCGC Range outside Inyokern, CA. The resulting crater will be open to the public after post-blast forensics and incident scene photography are completed, along about 3:45 P.M. or so.

This will be a non-catered event; business-casual attire requested.

I have also shot thousands of cast through my stock Glock 21 barrel up to 500 before cleaning and no noticable buildup barrel looks new. And by the way I have shot both tumble lube and normal lube and it seems the tumble lube shoot cleaner. [smilie=b:The only problem I have had is I have to use a factory crimp die or mine doesn't like to feed them. I will bet the 23 has the same results and I too will be trying it soon as I have one of those as well that I will start casting for soon.

[Capn Jack]

Tom-ADC
Nice shooting Tom,:wink: but you're compairing grapes to oranges. I was just teasing MPMARTY about his PB cast boolits out of his AK (or clone).:takinWiz:

I have yet to find a PB cast boolit that will group under 8" at 50yds. (AR.458 SoCom). As for 50yds. So far that's about the extent of our gravel pit, for more, we crank up the elevation, way up.:coffeecom

[Tom-ADC]

Oh BTW I should have added a smiley after my last post, it was purely tongue in cheek.
I like that target:grin:

I have also ran cast boolits thru my 21, but I think Glock say's no due to the unique rifling in them. Would I shoot them again sure just clean good when done.

[BD]

In my experience the lead build up in an AR gas tube is a total myth. I went 300 rounds of cast without cleaning my AR to test this theory and could detect no lead or lube build up in the gas tube. Now the rear of the bolt is a different story. if you shoot plain base boolits you will see a slight lead buildup on the bolt, along with the carbon that commonly gets deposited there. With gas check boolits it's totally a non issue. The lube does dirty the gun up somewhat as compared to jacketed bullets, but not to the extent that it interferes with the operation of the rifle.

IMHO what ever is vaporized and travels through the gas tube pretty much stays vaporized until it condenses on the bolt; carbon, copper or lead.

BD

[johnvid]

I agree with BD. I loaded and shot my first cast boolits in my 458 Socom yesterday. There was absolutly no signs of lead build up anywhere. I made sure to use gas checks with my boolits.

Use gas checks and you should be good to go.

[waksupi]

No one can own an AK47, if you could find one

They are easy enough to find. I helped put together around 6500 of them last summer, all for domestic sale.

[Capn Jack]

Thanks Johnvid,

Try to keep us updated when you find something that works for you. So far I've found 325gr.GC Solids, sized .459, from Glenhills are doing well with 32.5 grs. of W296.

Jack:coffeecom

[BruceB]

This is one more example of "never say never". For many years, I've been loading cast bullets for my gas-operated semi-auto military rifles. NEVER a problem with fouling in the gas system....until last week.

Recently, I bought a brand-new DSA FAL rifle. I followed my normal routine with such rifles, and fired around 500 jacketed loads through it. When cast-bullet tests began, I immediately encountered build-ups of metallic lead on the gas plug and piston, sufficient that removing the gas plug was one heck of a job. The need for removing the accumulated metallic lead was ample evidence of the difficulty.

I'm wondering if there's a burr at the gas port, which might scrape a bit of metal from each bullet that passes. My M1A shoots cleanly with similar loads, and the gas ports are almost an identical distance from the chamber. I'll continue shooting jacketed rounds for another thousand or so, and the try cast bullets again.

Anyway, this is NOT to discourage anyone from shooting cast in their autoloaders. I've done it for a long time with great success and no fouling. THIS rifle has something different going on.

[StarMetal]

This is one more example of "never say never". For many years, I've been loading cast bullets for my gas-operated semi-auto military rifles. NEVER a problem with fouling in the gas system....until last week.

Recently, I bought a brand-new DSA FAL rifle. I followed my normal routine with such rifles, and fired around 500 jacketed loads through it. When cast-bullet tests began, I immediately encountered build-ups of metallic lead on the gas plug and piston, sufficient that removing the gas plug was one heck of a job. The need for removing the accumulated metallic lead was ample evidence of the difficulty.

I'm wondering if there's a burr at the gas port, which might scrape a bit of metal from each bullet that passes. My M1A shoots cleanly with similar loads, and the gas ports are almost an identical distance from the chamber. I'll continue shooting jacketed rounds for another thousand or so, and the try cast bullets again.

Anyway, this is NOT to discourage anyone from shooting cast in their autoloaders. I've done it for a long time with great success and no fouling. THIS rifle has something different going on.

Bruce,

I agree with you. Here's something most don't think about. When they drill that gas port in the barrel it's always in the same location as it has to be for the proper venting of correct gas pressure. The hole size is important too. But....where the hole finally enters into the bore can be different with each barrel. That is the hole may be in a groove, it may be in a land, or it may be half and half land and groove, or anywhere inbetween. What I'm saying is I see a chance of more lead getting scraped off by the port opening when the port opening is in a land because the land is what cuts the grooves in the bullet so there is more friction contact there. On the other hand if the bullet doesn't fit the groove tight or an undersized bullet didn't obturate to the groove, there is a possibility of gas cutting .

[Tom-ADC]

I forgot I used to shoot a lot of cast boolits 120 gr .308 of my M1 carbine, used Winchester 296 powder but I don't recall how much, have to check my records.

[Capn Jack]

Many an Oregon Jackrabbit fell to the Speer 100gr. Half Jacket, with 14grs. of 2400 out of my M1 Carbine.

[mpmarty]

Many an Oregon Jackrabbit fell to the Speer 100gr. Half Jacket, with 14grs. of 2400 out of my M1 Carbine.

Ditto on that load. My Ruger blackhawk 30 carbine loved it. Ejecting empties sometimes got interesting; picture the pistol with the butt on the ground muzzle up and trying to hit the ejector rod with your muddy boot.:bigsmyl2:

[Capn Jack]

I can relate..:groner:
"Mortar-ing" my AR .458 trying to get a live round out of the chamber before I got my dies set right...All the time thinking...:holysheep My neighbor is going to CR#p if this goes off. * A case length chamber die is a cheap investment...