gun show shooting

[mike in co]

tanner gun show, adams county, denver merchandise mart. 3/20/2010.


dont know what was reported on the news, but probably 4 maybe 5 things went wrong.
a dealer had a gun on his table that was not zip tied in a safe condition,required by the rules.
the gun was loaded.. both of these are errors by the dealer( i think he is a private party...not a dealer, personal fire arms for sale, legal).
a customer picked the gun up, and did not check its condition( an always safety issue when you pick up someone elses gun, check it..is it empty ?)
the customer then turned almost 180 to "show" it to a friend...he pointed it at his friend...another never...never never.
then he pulled the trigger and shot his friend in the shoulder.

all bad, no good
the seller should have gone jail, the shooter may i do not know.

shold know more in the am

yes i'm working this show...

mike in co

[lwknight]

You can bet that the anti's will use that for fodder.

[R.C. Hatter]

:coffeecom This is a case of a tragic accident caused by negligence on the part of the dealer, as well as gross negligence on the part of the so-called "customer" who failed to insure the gun was unloaded, pointed the gun in an unsafe direction, and worst of all, pulled the trigger, thereby injuring his friend. This kind of stuff only acts as fuel for the anti-gun fire, which is plenty big enough already.

[HeavyMetal]

I have never pulled the trigger on a gun at a gun show ever! I rarely do it with any gun unless checking a trigger for possible wear or safety.

Before we "fry" the displayer of said weapon has anybody shined the harsh light of day on the two "victims"?

It's seems just to conincidental that no such accidents occur for decades and then "suddenly" we have several "shootings" in Gun Shows across the nation but none, that have made the news anyway, in gun shops!

Perhaps I'm just suspsious of such things given the desire of the liberals to do away with gun shows.

Then again I also remember some of the dippy stuff "animal rights" groups have done to stop hunting during a dear or bear season and I think once again perhaps we should look at our "victims" just a little harder before we condem the guy that owned the table.

Seriously: What are the odds of him picking up the only loaded gun in the building, and then hitting only his buddy, and non leathally to boot, in a building with 5 or 6 hundred people in it? MInd you he had to turn around to do this!

This is what living in California does to you!

[lead-1]

I have to agree with HeavyMetal on this staged stuff, I could be way off base and don't know of any published facts to uphold this but it seems to me that these accidental and rampage shootings are elevated when the antis are in charge. Maybe they just aren't as known or brushed under the rug at other times but put a gungrabber in charge and look out. How about when an anti sees a guy shoot himself on youtube as a bet and says "Hey Joe, lets go to the gunshow this weekend and make a point for our side, I'll shoot you and you scream a lot, OK."

Case in point of the tards we have weilding firearms and in the public eye, remember when guns are outlawed, only outlaws...

I decided not to post the link but if you want to see what I mean just google this,

( *** guy shoots self on purpose for a bet )

[44fanatic]

Need more people safely handleing firearms. The more people who set the proper example and teach safe gun handleing fewer incidents will happen. Willing to bet the perspective buyer was young and not familiar with firearms...

...Treat every firearm as if it were loaded...Rule number in in safe gun handleing.

[dragonrider]

I have had the same thoughts as Heavy Metals. The antis are rabid in their zeal to separate us from our firearms and I believe are capable of such acts.

[rockrat]

In Amarillo, TX. there were people that would go to a gun show and while one was talking , the other would put a round in the chamber of a gun and put it back on the table. At least, so I heard from a dealer there, only the roof got a hole in it.

Gun should have been tied, sellers fault.

[mooman76]

I blame the gunshow(people running it) its self also. They should be inspecting these guns to make sure they are tied off so they can't fire.The antis will have a field day with this and use it as another stepping stone trying to close all gun shows. It's a shame we have to be this way as well as a shame this unfortunate thing happened. A few idiots always seem to mess things up for the rest.

[frankenfab]

While I totally agree that the spineless anit-gunners will resort to any tactics to fulfill their agenda, if general firearms safety rules had been followed the "accident" would not have happened. I'm not trying to flame on or argue with anybody.

[Doc Highwall]

About 7 or 8 years ago a person at the West Springfield Ma. gun show was caught putting live ammo in a gun and putting it back on the table I was there when the police arrested him.

[NSP64]

Heavy hit it. I smell fish. I don't go to gun shows anymore, High prices and too many idiots.

[mooman76]

Seems like any more there are at least 2 incidents a year at gun shows where a gun is discharged. I don't know if it's something someone is causeing or if it is the press covring it more due to the high tempo situations with guns now adays. There are allot of gun shows now adays with things the way they are. I know most gun owners take gun saftey ceriously but there are always a few out there that treat it like it's nothing but a game.

[HeavyMetal]

I agree the rules need to be followed for safety. Gun shows here have stuff through the actions of pistols and everyhing is anchored to the table in some way but the "customer" still needs to inspect if he's really interested in purchasing. So some "mobility" of the weapon is needed for inspection.

Unfortuneately I think the key word here needs to be "intent" And it's one more reason I hope Mike in CO can post an update this afternoon.

I'm also hoping my "paranoia" prompted him to make a suggestion concerning our "victims". However I also know he may have no way to do this and hope he forgives me for being a suspisius jerk.

By the way anyone want to make a wager on caliber of the weapon in this shooting?

Five bucks says 22 rimfire!

[mike in co]

I agree the rules need to be followed for safety. Gun shows here have stuff through the actions of pistols and everyhing is anchored to the table in some way but the "customer" still needs to inspect if he's really interested in purchasing. So some "mobility" of the weapon is needed for inspection.

Unfortuneately I think the key word here needs to be "intent" And it's one more reason I hope Mike in CO can post an update this afternoon.

I'm also hoping my "paranoia" prompted him to make a suggestion concerning our "victims". However I also know he may have no way to do this and hope he forgives me for being a suspisius jerk.

By the way anyone want to make a wager on caliber of the weapon in this shooting?

Five bucks says 22 rimfire!

you can sent the five bucks to the guy we are running the auctions for......it was a 40.

[mike in co]

ok the gun show management has decided not to comment...wait till the police release a report,



sorry in my opinon that is bs.....its unlikely we will see the TRUTH in a police report( sorry to the guys in uniform).....too many politicians in the office ans not in the field.


ok supposedly the gun was tied.....but obviously not in the context of the rules...as the slide was closed and the trigger could be pulled. they looked for the spent case and could not find it......cause the slide was tied closed....case found in the chamber.


nothing else to report....

ohh yes it was reported to be a 40 s&w.......

to those that blame the show management....you aint there......and i am...every show. very active in inspectiong tied guns....several guys walking the show doing nothing but looking for untied guns...they dont have xray vision.

since the gun was tied shut, you can pass on the conspiracy therories too....

operator error...both seller and customer.


mike in co

[VintageRifle]

The gun shows that I attend require each firearm to be checked before it is allowed on the floor. There is a uniformed officer that checks the firearm to make sure it is unloaded and the action is tied off.

However, things can be overlooked.

Plus someone could simply cut the original zip tie off and replace it with another one.

[jhrosier]

About 7 or 8 years ago a person at the West Springfield Ma. gun show was caught putting live ammo in a gun and putting it back on the table I was there when the police arrested him.

Doc,

PM me if you have any details.
I was at two different shows in the area around that time that had NDs.
There were never any details relleased to the public about what happened.

Jack

[Blacksmith]

Remember there are a lot of new gun owners in the last year and many have not had sufficient or any training. So more people going to gun shows and ranges who don't really know what they are doing. So be careful out there and do what you can to spread the rules of safe gun handling and encourage noobs to get some training. If nothing else refer them to the NRA web site for classes in their area.

Blacksmith

[pmeisel]

I was at a gun show not long ago, in a venue I had never been in before. Looking thru a table when I heard a gun shot at the far end of the arena -- startled me and set the spidey-senses all a-tingle.

Turns out this arena has an area at one end where supervised test firing was allowed....

[HeavyMetal]

Copy that Mike! I'll be more than happy to send 5 bucks to GW and thank you for understanding my suspisions. I hope the injured man and his buddy recover completely.

If the gun was tied shut and the empty case was in it the round had to be in there before the gun was tied!

So shame on the guy who rented the table, this was his responsibility to make sure his stuff was safe before the doors were open to the public.

I'm not sure what security could have done here. I do know that all guns going into a show here in SoCal are checked before entry and they usually have a large jar with live ammo found in "empty" guns when they are checked on display at the door!

As for exhibitors? I honestly have no idea how that is handled but the "honor" system is apparently not cutting it!

As gun owners, shooters and hunters we need to be doing everything better and we need to be doing it better than we ever have before!

Because if we don't big brother will make sure we can't!

[wistlepig1]

I agree with MIKE, I have been to that show(tanner) many times and have seen the efforts they apply to safety---- they are good. There is something we don't know as to the details and will be watching to see what "details" come to light.

[mike in co]

The gun shows that I attend require each firearm to be checked before it is allowed on the floor. There is a uniformed officer that checks the firearm to make sure it is unloaded and the action is tied off.

However, things can be overlooked.

Plus someone could simply cut the original zip tie off and replace it with another one.

this is true of guns the customers bring in, but not of guns on sellers tables. the seller is required to empty and tie... visual checking by the staff for compliance.

[snake river marksman]

SHOT show requires that all firing pins be removed. They come along and check to make sure. I was at the Freedom Arms booth two years ago when they came along and found a pin in one of FAs revolvers.

[hoosierlogger]

When I go to gun shows I dont touch anything unless I am dead serious about buying it. Alot of people go to them just to handle guns that have no intentions of buying.

[mike in co]

SHOT show requires that all firing pins be removed. They come along and check to make sure. I was at the Freedom Arms booth two years ago when they came along and found a pin in one of FAs revolvers.

guns at the shot show ar NOT for sale.....
kinds hard at a local show to sell a gun with no firing pin.

mike in co

[Doc_Stihl]

When I go to gun shows I dont touch anything unless I am dead serious about buying it. Alot of people go to them just to handle guns that have no intentions of buying.

I second that. Last couple shows I didn't so much as lay a finger on a firearm. Now those half empty boxes of bullets on the other hand, I gotta touch everyone....

[Frozone]

<Let the paranoia flow!>
Any chance the seller was in cahoots with the shooter?
Seems the best way for the antis to get this done is set up the Complete scenario.
I mean can you really trust a vendor to have 'accidentally' left a shell in a tied gun?
Best way would be for the "vendor" to have the gun set up and give it to the shooter when they showed up. I mean after all all, a stranger could have shot the Vendor!
</paranoia >

[mike in co]

<Let the paranoia flow!>
Any chance the seller was in cahoots with the shooter?
Seems the best way for the antis to get this done is set up the Complete scenario.
I mean can you really trust a vendor to have 'accidentally' left a shell in a tied gun?
Best way would be for the "vendor" to have the gun set up and give it to the shooter when they showed up. I mean after all all, a stranger could have shot the Vendor!
</paranoia >


not likely.
a long time seller at this show.
a retired ltcol if i was told right.......

[mike in co]

<Let the paranoia flow!>
Any chance the seller was in cahoots with the shooter?
Seems the best way for the antis to get this done is set up the Complete scenario.
I mean can you really trust a vendor to have 'accidentally' left a shell in a tied gun?
Best way would be for the "vendor" to have the gun set up and give it to the shooter when they showed up. I mean after all all, a stranger could have shot the Vendor!
</paranoia >


not likely.
a long time seller at this show.
a retired ltcol if i was told right.......

according to the news it has been ruled an accident by the police...but that will not stop the law suits....

[jcwit]

Right I'm going to go to a gun show and let somebody shoot me to prove a point.




Course there is those suicide bombers.

[Frozone]

Right I'm going to go to a gun show and let somebody shoot me to prove a point. Course there is those suicide bombers.

There are people who will do a lot of strange things for the right incentive.

If the Right-wing Cranks can kill people by blowing up abortion centers, why can't the Left pull this off.
No one was killed and I know a guy who makes a living by getting hit by cars while he's on a bicycle.
It's a success only if he ends up in the hospital with real injuries afterward! Otherwise he won't get enough money.

[jcwit]

There are people who will do a lot of strange things for the right incentive.

If the Right-wing Cranks can kill people by blowing up abortion centers, why can't the Left pull this off.
No one was killed and I know a guy who makes a living by getting hit by cars while he's on a bicycle.
It's a success only if he ends up in the hospital with real injuries afterward! Otherwise he won't get enough money.

I know, thats why I mentioned the suicide bombers.

[snake river marksman]

I guess it was meant more as a passing comment than as a suggestion.

[roggom]

I have been waiting to get more info before commenting, as of now it appears to have been a 9mm semi auto. http://news.yahoo.com/video/denvercbs4-15750663/man-wounded-in-shooting-at-gun-show-18757202

Now don't pay too much attention to the added fluff the media has added to this story, but now to my point.

I have been attending the Tanner gunshow for sometime now and I find it is a great place to purchase reloading components, gun parts and other things. The issue I have has been the crazy gouging that has occurred over the last year or so. I did not go to this show, because now that I cast there really is no reason, other to buy stripper clips and beef jerky.

My point is that there are some great vendors at this show, very attentive and have great customer service, and have great conversation. There are others that are so worried about turning a buck that they skip the essential safety rules.

Frequenting this show, there are a lot of first time gun buyers, thugs, kids, and well any person who can pay the entrance fee. This would be more of a point to maintain 100% control of your weapons. Conspiracy theories aside, how long does it take to do a confidence check on maybe 30 firearms.

Colorado is a wonderful state for hunting, shooting and other sports, there are so many opportunities to attend safety classes, if anything hunters safety is regulated to be no more than $10. My kids attended at 10 years old. Given this I feel the shooter and the vendor should be brought up on criminal negligence.

It is bad enough that the city of Denver has passed so many restrictive laws and there are attempts to put other restrictions (background check fees) at the state level. Mishaps like this really are a disservice to the struggle to maintain our rights.

[mike in co]

I have been waiting to get more info before commenting, as of now it appears to have been a 9mm semi auto. http://news.yahoo.com/video/denvercbs4-15750663/man-wounded-in-shooting-at-gun-show-18757202

Now don't pay too much attention to the added fluff the media has added to this story, but now to my point.

I have been attending the Tanner gunshow for sometime now and I find it is a great place to purchase reloading components, gun parts and other things. The issue I have has been the crazy gouging that has occurred over the last year or so. I did not go to this show, because now that I cast there really is no reason, other to buy stripper clips and beef jerky.

My point is that there are some great vendors at this show, very attentive and have great customer service, and have great conversation. There are others that are so worried about turning a buck that they skip the essential safety rules.

Frequenting this show, there are a lot of first time gun buyers, thugs, kids, and well any person who can pay the entrance fee. This would be more of a point to maintain 100% control of your weapons. Conspiracy theories aside, how long does it take to do a confidence check on maybe 30 firearms.

Colorado is a wonderful state for hunting, shooting and other sports, there are so many opportunities to attend safety classes, if anything hunters safety is regulated to be no more than $10. My kids attended at 10 years old. Given this I feel the shooter and the vendor should be brought up on criminal negligence.

It is bad enough that the city of Denver has passed so many restrictive laws and there are attempts to put other restrictions (background check fees) at the state level. Mishaps like this really are a disservice to the struggle to maintain our rights.


the news report is from a very poor news source......view the entire thing and the previous reports by this station..are incorrect. full auto guns are not illegal in this state, just approval/tax stamp approval required. and the "explosives" on sale are sold everywhere and legal. the same station that allows the traitor jane fonda on thier shows. all taken with a very large grain of salt.

since the cartridge case had not been found when this report was made...we will just have to wait and see what the police have to say.
yes the tanner show is a safe show.

most of your statement is very good.

thanks
mike in co

[roggom]

Totally agree about the other garbage that the news threw into the story to "spice" it up. I am surprised more credible information is not available. Is the Tanner show allowed to complete the remaining schedule?

[mike in co]

Totally agree about the other garbage that the news threw into the story to "spice" it up. I am surprised more credible information is not available. Is the Tanner show allowed to complete the remaining schedule?

sure...even stayed open during the investigstion...doors were closed , no new customers, but none inside got to leave....

[AZ-Stew]

roggom,

Welcome abaord, Senior Chief! What was your rating? I was a GMC.

Regards,

Stew

[Elk Country]

I was at that Tanner show on Sunday, the day after. Two very good friends of mine are regular vendors at these shows. Concensus is that one the two "victims" brought the loaded gun into the show. He layed it down on the table to look at another gun and the other victim picked it up, pointed it at victim #1 and pulled the trigger.

Victim #2 was lead out in handcuffs and #1 was lead out to the ambulance.

Elk Country

[mike in co]

I was at that Tanner show on Sunday, the day after. Two very good friends of mine are regular vendors at these shows. Concensus is that one the two "victims" brought the loaded gun into the show. He layed it down on the table to look at another gun and the other victim picked it up, pointed it at victim #1 and pulled the trigger.

Victim #2 was lead out in handcuffs and #1 was lead out to the ambulance.

Elk Country


BS


why was the owner of the table arrested. why was his stuff impounded ?

this is the very reason why i wish the owner and his son would put out a statement.

mike in co