45-70 Loads

[Kyfarmer]

Here lately I have had the hots for a 45-70 and have about decided on a Marlin 1895 Cowboy lever action or possibly an H&R Buffalo Classic with the 32" barrel as my second choice.
I'm an old caster and already have 4 molds. The Lee 457-405, Lyman 457125 (500 gr), Saeco O22 (500 gr. FP), and a NEI .455 gr.

I need some suggestions on some good cast loads using one of these molds. Most of the data I have shows a lighter bullet and requires a dacron filler wad. I would like to get away from filler wads if possible. I just purchased a jug of WC872 surplus powder. Any possibilities there? I'm sure someone on the forum has experience with the 45-70.

Also, what about these two rifles? Will only be used target shooting, etc. No hunting. Has anyone had any experience with either of these two rifles? Thanks in advance for any help here.

Kyfarmer

[Nobade]

Funny, I just got back from the range after spending a wonderful 4th of July with my 45-70. The neat thing about this cartridge is it can burn pretty much any smokeless powder you can come up with, if loaded correctly. If you use a case full of 872 you'll be lucky to top 800 fps. You can duplex it with 10% of something fast like 4759 or 4227 and it'll just about duplicate black powder velocities, i.e. 1300 fps or so. As for the rifles, they both are great fun. The Marlin needs to be fed bullets of the correct shape - RCBS 350 or 405 FN are probably the best. The H&R can use BPCR type bullets, such as that SAECO. Both need better sights than what they come with, and the Marlin will probably be more trouble free over the long run. Just depends on what flavor you like.

[Leftoverdj]

The heavy bullets will kick the snot out you in a light rifle, and I am not sure that you can get the 500 grain bullets to cycle in the Marlin. Both NEF and Marlin barrels tend to prefer fat bullets, c. 459 or .460. The Lee moulds tend to run small, but shoot well if you luck into a mould that casts big enough or if you lap them out. The lapping is easy in aluminum. At less than $20, the Lee 459-405-HB is well worth buying and will cast large enough.

For cheap shooting, it's hard to beat 12-13 grains of Unique under a 400 grain cast. You may have to pay full price for the powder, but you get over 500 shots to the pound and it will cut ragged holes at 50 yards. Velocity is in the 1100 fps range.

[Buckshot]

................Kyfarmer and Nobade, welcome to the board! Kyfarmer what Nobade said is true, re: Marlin lever action and boolit length. Also Leftoverdj's remarks about recoil. Even with a fairly light load under a 500 gr slug there is a recoil impulse that will grow wearysome. Add to that the fact that you're sending well over an ounce of lead downrange with each shot.

Both rifles are very nice pieces. I've seen a couple Buffalo type H&R's. One was a Wesson and Harrington. I have had a chance to shoot a Target model H&R in 38-55. While it was a very attractive rifle, best of all it was a very accurate one too. I would first determine which rifle you're likely to end up with. As was mentioned, the lever action is limiting to the wieght you can realisticly use due to OAL for cycling from the magazine.

There are no flies on a 400 - 425gr slug propelled from the Marlin with legitimate upper end loads. You'll be able to enjoy all the recoil a person can stand. On the other hand the single shot will be more eclectic in being able to use any boolit weight you'd care to shoot, since it doesn't have to feed from a magazine.

One of the members here, Finn45 got himself a H&R in 45-70 and posted about it, including some interesting photo's of chamber casts.

One other thing is price. I don't know how much cheaper the H&R is compared to the Marlin, but if you really don't need a repeater the difference may allow you to maybe get different/better sights, plus lay in the dies and brass too.

................Buckshot

[charlie45]

Thats all good info, but don't forget the lettle Handi rifle in 45-70. Out to 150 yards I don't want to stand in front of it. Load her up hot and I don't want to stand behind it!
But for a lettle over 230.00 a lot of gun & fun. And it will shoot black just fine within the limits of her 22" barrel.:-D

[Clark]

I like 30 gr IMR4895 and 405 gr cast.
That kicks like a 30-06
The zero for 50 yards is quite different from the zero for 100 yards.

40 gr IMR4895 and 405 gr kicks hard.
And that is still a trapdoor load.

[Kyfarmer]

Well, I made a trip up to Whittakers' Guns near Owensboro, Ky. today. I settled on the NEF Buffalo Classic in 45-70. Bought two boxes of 405 gr. FN ammo for the brass.
Shot it a few times at 50 yds. After rough sight in got a 1.5" group. And can see potenial for doing much better as some holes were touching. Can't wait to get dies and start working up a few good loads. I think this will be a fun one to shoot.

[Char-Gar]

In my Marlin 45-70 levergun, I like 25/4959/405 RCBS GC. This gives outstanding accuracy, modest recoil and about 1.3K fps. I size the bullets .460 which is the "as cast" diameter of the bullet.

Some folks have done allot of work with the 45-70 and WC872...Go over to castpics.net and poke around. You will find some information and data there.

I have tried WC872 twice in the 45-70 and the results have been worth persuing. You will find you need a 3 to 5 grain kicker load of medium burning powder to get that slow powder to work for you.