Wolf Primers, my perception

[HeavyMetal]

About a month back I wrote that I picked up 1000 Wolf small pistol primers to try them out.

Recently started reloading some 40 S&W for one of the guys at work and decided to use the Wolf primers and see what they were like.

Using my new ( about 4 weeks old) Lee Auto prime I got about 300 primed before I broke the thumb lever. Never used more than one thumb but diffinately found some did not want to go in as easy as others.

Very strange as this was a lot of once fired Winchester 40S&W brass.

I wasn't sure if this was the brass or the primers so when Lee sent my new Lever, it arrived today free of charge, I took out some Federal standard small pistol primers from my stock and primed about 15 or so.

These went right in and did not give me one inkling of hang up. Thinking it was the primers I pulled some 38 special brass I had sized and de primed a few months back. Case's were mixed so I pulled a couple federal, frontier, 3-d, Starline and Super vel case's at random and primed them with the Wolf primers.

Low and be hold not a problem or bad feeling primer feed in the bunch!

My thought is that both the Winchester 40 S&W case's and the Wolf primers may be on the outside edge of tollerance and thus require a bit more pressure than I'd like to generate to seat properly.

Let me be clear: this is not a condemnation of Wolf primers!

I am just reporting my results in a very limited amount of reloading with a new to me primer manufacturer.

I post this so others may be aware that changing either maker or caliber of brass may result in a better "fit" for the Wolf primers.

I have not fired any of these yet so can't report on any ignition issues. I will post when I get the chance to shoot these.

[Ed Barrett]

From my experience I found Wolf, CCI, and federals seem to be on the large end of the scale and Winchester and Remington seem to be on the small end. As far as cases go I have found them to be all over the place, I think this is from wear on the forming dies for the cases wearing through the cycle of use at the cartridge factory. I have not done any in depth research on this, but have found it to be the case over the years.

[grumman581]

I figure that as long as the primer isn't falling out of the brass, I'm doing ok... :)

[Calamity Jake]

I bought 10K LP about 1 1/2 years age to load 45C for CASS and other stuff. I have a hodge bodge of 45C brass from just about all manufactures the wolf primers seat harder in all brass that I have used them in.
They are also a little taller so make sure there seated deep enough.

I sold a couple of K to friends to try and have loaded about 3 K myself, so far they have all went BANG on the first hit.

[Recluse]

Sorry, but I'm just not warming up to Wolf anything. Their ammo is junk of the lowest order. And so far, I'm finding their primers are about equal to their ammo.

I have some, will continue to buy more primers for plinking ammo only.

But my experience with them so far has not been good--not compared to Winchester and CCI.

I posted a while back about a number of FTF in my .38 Special light loads for the kid and my wife. Got the predictable "it's all your fault" bravo sierra from the usual players.

Yesterday, I pulled the boolits and popped the primers out.

Guess what?

No anvils, no guts. (Maybe I just needed to "seat them deeper" :rolleyes:)

Not just once. Not just twice, but in over ten of the 18+ that didn't fire. I'm taking the box back to my gunstore. He'll replace them and notify his distributor who will notify Wolf who will notify their agent who will notify the factory comrade who will notify . . .

Plinking only. And as little of that with them as possible until I get can 50k in backstock of Winchester and CCI real primers.

:coffee:

[snake river marksman]

I loaded up a couple of dozen 9mm with some winchester SP last weekend as test loads. The brass was mixed headstamp. I found several that were difficult to seat and one that just wouldn't take a primer at all. I think all any of this proves is that ALL of our components are all over the place as far as tolerances are concerned.

[Scrapper]

All the manufactures need to hold tighter tolerances in order to make the parts fit together properly if they don't it just makes it hit or miss for the consumer. I have found that most of the Wolf LP fit tight in my New Winchester 45 Colt cases and when I put Winchester LP in the Winchester cases they fit easy and a few went in tight. I press them in with a Lyman Ram Prime die in the T-Mag Press so that they are .005" below the case head and I have no misfires. The main thing with primers is that the anvil be pressed "just enough" against the bottom of the primer pocket to sensitize the primer.

[rob45]

All the manufactures need to hold tighter tolerances in order to make the parts fit together properly if they don't it just makes it hit or miss for the consumer.

The main thing with primers is that the anvil be pressed "just enough" against the bottom of the primer pocket to sensitize the primer.

Well, I would agree with that for the most part. Unfortunately, all manufacturers, especially during periods of heavy demand, are prone to let the desirable tight tolerances slip. Their largest concern is getting them out the door.

As always, we are in the situation of "making do with what we have". But of particular interest is the post by Recluse. Awful hard to seat the anvil properly if there's not even an anvil there!

For the record, I have not yet had to try the Wolf primers, so I cannot comment on them. I'm still going on old inventory, but the time for Wolf may be coming soon if I don't slow down.

BTW, welcome to the site, Scrapper.

[Scrapper]

rob45,

Thanks for the welcome and I'm glad to here as I love reading on these forums.

I have worked in many machine shops that ran major production of metal products and also have worked as a jobber doing one piece proto-types, and also acting my own inspector. It's not really that hard to keep parts running off the line with tight tolerances, unless your not paying attention. I will also add I worked my butt off literally. I know all too well how a machine can work a person into the ground and the machine will be there forever, LOL.

You are right about all we have to do is learn how to adapt to the products we have available to us, that's what I do and it works as I have good results with Winchester, CCI, and Wolf in Winchester, Remington, and Starline Cases.

[Boz330]

I haven't loaded a lot of the Wolf yet but the ones that I have loaded seat hard but no FTFs yet. Someone else cautioned about the anvils on here a while back so I keep an eye out when I dump them in the Auto Prime but haven't had a problem.
I bought all of these 1 1/2years back and this could have been a lot problem rather than an ongoing problem. I would much rather have WW and I use BR-2s for BPCR but shooting is the first priority and the preferred stuff just ain't available.

Bob

[Cadillo]

Sorry, but I'm just not warming up to Wolf anything. Their ammo is junk of the lowest order. And so far, I'm finding their primers are about equal to their ammo.

:coffee:


Broad statement!

You've obviously never tried any Wolf .22 lr ammo. Either that or you haven't the equipment to determine that it is some of the best bang for your buck in .22 lr. When shooting for groups at 50 yards, I use only Wolf Match Target or SK Standard Plus, which is loaded on the same machine in the same building. I've tried all the really high dollar stuff I could find, and NOTHING comes close to the Wolf and SK for accuracy and reliability in my H&R M-12's or CZ.

[lathesmith]

I've used Wolf primers with my pistol loads, mostly Starline brass, 44 mag and 45 Colt, and they have always worked great for me. No FTF's and really no difference at all that I can tell with the moderate loads and Pyrodex loads that I use. I can't really tell any difference loading them on my Lee turret press, as compared to the CCI's or others I have used in the past.

lathesmith

[shooterg]

Naturally I prefer Federal,WW,CCI but I've now shot many thousands of SP and SRM Wolf primers with all going bang. I do think they're "tight" going in but that may not be a bad thing with some of the many times fired brass I use. Since reading about the missing anvils I do pay attention to that before loading up the Dillon primer tubes. Somebody had to get the bad batch, I'm just glad it wasn't me !

[Recluse]

Broad statement!

You've obviously never tried any Wolf .22 lr ammo. Either that or you haven't the equipment to determine that it is some of the best bang for your buck in .22 lr. When shooting for groups at 50 yards, I use only Wolf Match Target or SK Standard Plus, which is loaded on the same machine in the same building. I've tried all the really high dollar stuff I could find, and NOTHING comes close to the Wolf and SK for accuracy and reliability in my H&R M-12's or CZ.

True, in regards to a broad statement.

My experience with Wolf ammo has been in .223, 7.62x39, 9mm and it was junk. Pure junk.

Have not tried their .22LR, but I have several .22LR firearms, including the obligatory Ruger 10-22 and some Chinese-made .22LR bolt-action rifle I bought new in the box 20 years ago for something like $50. It's a tack driver. Unbelievable, but this dang rifle is accurate beyond ANY .22LR rifle I've ever owned.

Handgun wise, I have a High Standard and a Ruger MkII Bull Barrel in the 10 5/8" barrel--both of those guns are extremely accurate. Also have a S&W .22LR revolver--Model 17, I think. It rarely gets shot.

I'll try some Wolf .22LR and see how it does.

:coffee:

[wistlepig1]

I have shot a small sample of Wolf SR, they were alittle harder to seat, but not much of a big deal. I have not had the anvil problem, yet, but keep my eye open.

[JeffinNZ]

RECLUSE: Some of the top shooters in CBA matches are using Wolf primers.

I think you are experiencing the extremes in production quality. Case in point; there is a HUGE difference between the cheaper, bulk Federal rimfire ammo and their match quality stuff. I don't doubt that Wolf could/can produce match quality .223 ammo but I bet it won't sell.

[Recluse]

RECLUSE: Some of the top shooters in CBA matches are using Wolf primers.

I think you are experiencing the extremes in production quality. Case in point; there is a HUGE difference between the cheaper, bulk Federal rimfire ammo and their match quality stuff. I don't doubt that Wolf could/can produce match quality .223 ammo but I bet it won't sell.

Jeff, that's a good point.

People tend to forget that the Russians produced some of the most lethal, deadly-accurate snipers the world had ever seen--and they did it before Europe and the U.S. In fact, they had a female sniper in WWII that literally held Nazi officers hostage due to their fear of this woman and her incredible accuracy and lethality.

The Russians KNOW how to design extremely effective and accurate ammunition. No doubt whatsoever about that.

Still doesn't change my opinion of their primers up to this point. No anvils? No guts? Took out the rest of the primers in that brick and found more of the same?

If I'd been shooting in a match, I would've lost. If I'd been shooting to hunt, I would've gone hungry. And God forbid, if I'd trusted my life to them, I would be dead.

Perhaps if I'd loaded and shot thousands and thousands of Wolf primers before I got this bad box, I'd think differently. But this was my first ever try with Wolf. Not a real confidence builder.

:coffee:

[grumman581]

Perhaps if I'd loaded and shot thousands and thousands of Wolf primers before I got this bad box, I'd think differently. But this was my first ever try with Wolf. Not a real confidence builder.

I know the feeling... The first (if not nearly so) time I ate at a Jack-in-the-Box, a kid tried to rob me and I got shot. That was over 30 years ago and I still refuse to eat at those restaurants.

--

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=302&pictureid=2075

[Boz330]

I don't shoot a lot of store bought ammo since I reload everything but 22 and 32acp. A buddy brought an AR over one day with a bunch of the Wolf 223 and I tried shooting it for group and got about a foot pattern. I wasn't too impressed with the Wolf, but for spray and pray which is what a lot of people buy it for I guess it works. The next time he came out with some Wolf ammo it wasn't nearly as bad so I guess it is luck of the draw.
I understand what you guys that had bad experiences with whatever are talking about though. I bought a Tasco scope in 68 for a 700 Remington 06 that would readjust itself at every shot. Haven't had a Tasco anything since and I know that they turn out some pretty good stuff now. Just human nature I guess.

Bob

[DanOH]

Last month I received an order of 8K wolf primers and have so far only used the large pistol primers...with good results.
They are packaged with all the anvils face up, red and gold, staring at you when you slide back the cover.
I don't know how you could keep from noticing if there were any anvils missing...so far I havn't found any, but will definately be watching for it.

[Recluse]

They are packaged with all the anvils face up, red and gold, staring at you when you slide back the cover.
I don't know how you could keep from noticing if there were any anvils missing...so far I havn't found any, but will definately be watching for it.

The ones I got (small pistol) were faced both ways--those that were in the pockets. Most were in the sleeve--when I cut the tape and slid the cover, about half came out right then.

But in over thirty plus years of reloading, I've gotten out of the habit of checking for the most basic of elements in my reloading components. Reckon I need to get back to basics.

For everyone who enjoys success with Wolf, I'm genuinely happy for you and somewhat envious. Good availability at a fair price.

I'm just snakebit.

:coffee:

[DeepSouth]

I would have to side with Recluse in this,as for as ammo goes.I had a Mini 30 and shot Wolf ammo in it.It was basically bang,bang,bang,click wait a few tense seconds eject the shell shoot what was left in the mag.Reload the mag place the shell on top and it would go bang about 98% of the time.I quit shooting wolf for that very reason.I do not trust their ammo.As a side note I got rid of the brand new Mini 30 for a K31 and I believe I came out better by losing money on the 30.Never will by another of the Mini's again.Accuracy was piss poor.

[Boz330]

I would have to side with Recluse in this,as for as ammo goes.I had a Mini 30 and shot Wolf ammo in it.It was basically bang,bang,bang,click wait a few tense seconds eject the shell shoot what was left in the mag.Reload the mag place the shell on top and it would go bang about 98% of the time.I quit shooting wolf for that very reason.I do not trust their ammo.As a side note I got rid of the brand new Mini 30 for a K31 and I believe I came out better by losing money on the 30.Never will by another of the Mini's again.Accuracy was piss poor.

Maybe you will eventually get your money back with the K-31. As folks figure out what tack drivers they are the price has been going up steadily. I just saw a couple for sale at the club over the weekend and they wanted nearly double what I paid for mine a year or so ago. They are getting more scarce all of the time.

Bob

[Cadillo]

RECLUSE: Some of the top shooters in CBA matches are using Wolf primers.

I think you are experiencing the extremes in production quality. Case in point; there is a HUGE difference between the cheaper, bulk Federal rimfire ammo and their match quality stuff. I don't doubt that Wolf could/can produce match quality .223 ammo but I bet it won't sell.


If you don't already know, the Wolf rimfire is not Russian but European and really good stuff for the money I like Federal rimfire. It's all I shoot in my handguns, but it cannot approach the Wolf or SK for accuracy in a good rifle.

[Cadillo]

Just in case no one else mentioned it, the Wolf centerfire ammo that I have seen was Russian made and coated with some damnable lacquer. I would not load or shoot that stuff in any firearm at all. I would also call that stuff junk. However, comparing the lacquer coated Russian centerfire to the Wolf European rimfire is tanatmount to comparing a Yugo to an BMW. There is absolutely no comparison. The only thing they share is the badge on the box.

Wolf would have done well to have chosen a different name to put on the rimfire box.

[Cadillo]

Egads! I need to watch my spelling.

[dubber123]

The German made Wolf .22 LR is fantastic ammo, but for the near $5 per box of 50 it sells for around here, it should be good. It's not can killing ammo, but has shot superbly in every gun I have tried it in.

[grumman581]

From what I've heard, the lacquer coated ammo tends to jam in some (i.e. Western) rifles. I have not heard the same complaint about the polymer coated ammo though.

[Cadillo]

One final tidbit regarding the Wolf and SK .22 lr ammo. They are loaded by a division of Lapua. Perhaps some of you have heard of them.

[StarMetal]

I can't speak for the Wolf steel cased centerfire ammo, but the brass cased ammo, often listed as Wold Gold, is for certain made by Privi Partizan. I know a guy that actually visited the factory and saw that first hand.

For the fellow that got rid of the Mini 30 the steel cased 7.62x39 Wolf ammo has a particularly hard primer for the firing pin to fire off. This is a big problem with AR15's in that caliber and they have special firing pins and/or mods done to the bolt. I'd say the Mini 30 didn't have a hard hitting enough firing pin.

[TDB9901]

So far satisfied with the stock of Large Pistol primers I got last Fall. Every one has gone pop.

The only Wolf ammo I have used is in my SKS and AK, and they will eat about anything, .... very heavy firing pin strikes...... Very little of it shot on paper, but it seems to hit close to where I'm pointing it, and rolls steel tie plate targets just fine.

As an aside.... Does anyone know who is making the Russian made stuff Cabellas is pushing under the old Herters brand name??