little factory ammo info

[Lloyd Smale]

Just picked up a win featherweight in 280rem and need some brass. My buddys gunshop had 8 boxes of the old 165 grain rem load. Hes had them forever and offered them to me for 10 bucks a box. Really didnt need a bullet that heavy and bought them mostly for brass so i pulled the bullets and stuck them on the shelf for later. It was loaded with what was no doubt 4831 given the velocity and charge weight. Just for grins i started weighting the charges and they varied from 54.0 to 55.1 and there was no real half way point they were all over the place. I would have never guessed factory ammo would have powder charges that varied so much. No doubt there just dumping powder in them.

[44mag1]

I heard that the factory charges 2 half charges instead of one full charge. Its supposed to be more accurate.

[dubber123]

I have gotten a few over the years with NO powder in them. The last was a 130 gr. Federal .270. Pulling the boolit showed a blackened case interior, so the primer was good, just no powder. It barely moved out of the cannelure. For my "important" loads, it's handload only.

[leadman]

I read an article on the new Hornady Superperformance ammo. They had a comparision test with other ammo.
The Remington they tested was way high in pressure, over 61,000 psi while the rest of the brands were around 56,000 IIRC.

Here in Az. in the summer Rem. 7mm Rem mag will flatten the primers out over the case.

[theperfessor]

Were those 8 boxes all from the same lot #? I've read many times that ammo makers use non-canister grade powders and adjust their load up or down to reach certain pressure and velocity levels. If one lot needed say 54.3 grs and another needed 54.8 grs and they allowed +/- 0.3 grs that would give you the distribution you measured.

Maybe I'm overthinking this. Just a thought.

[AZ-Stew]

How "old" is "the old Remington factory load". Could be a clue there. Factory ammo 15+ years ago wasn't as consistent as it is now, and the charge weight variation may be part of the problem.

Congrats on the "new" rifle. I've always kind of wanted a .280. I have a 7mm Rem Mag, so I can't really justify it. There isn't much difference between them. I won't sell the 7 Mag. It's one of the first 20 Rem. 700 Detachable Magazine Stainless Synthetic models to leave the factory. I used to teach Hunter Ed for AZ G&F. One year they held the Wild Sheep Foundation convention here in Phoenix. I volunteered to instruct to help members get a bonus point for the Desert Bighorn tag draw. Remington provided the rifles (several months before the model was available to the public), Leupold provided the scopes (3-9X VX-II), rings and bases, Uncle Mike's the slings and Federal the ammo. After the convention the rifles were offered to the instructors at cost. It's a REALLY good shooter with Sierra 160 spitzer boattails printing 3-shot cloverleafs at 100 yds.

Anyway, enough bragging. Enjoy your Winchester.

Regards,

Stew

[DLCTEX]

My friend was recently given one, marked 7mm Express, that was unfired. The owner had it for years and couldn't find ammo locally for it. He had bought 280 ammo some time ago, but wasn't sure it fit so still was unfired. I sorted through my range pickups and found 20 pieces I'll be loading for him. Looks to be a great caliber.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Lloyd, Back in 2000 I bought 10 boxes of Win. 375 H&H factory ammo off evilbay. I didn`t need 275 gr. deer loads so I pulled and weighed the charges. Some of the bullets were so loose I could pull them by hand. The charges varied wildly as much as 3.0 gr. with no median steady amount for more than at most 3 shells in a row. The powder even looked different every now and again, which is why I fertalized the Frau`s flower bed with it. That was the last factory ammo I have ever bought for any of my firearms that are centerfire.Robert

[dubber123]

Lloyd, Back in 2000 I bought 10 boxes of Win. 375 H&H factory ammo off evilbay. I didn`t need 275 gr. deer loads so I pulled and weighed the charges. Some of the bullets were so loose I could pull them by hand. The charges varied wildly as much as 3.0 gr. with no median steady amount for more than at most 3 shells in a row. The powder even looked different every now and again, which is why I fertalized the Frau`s flower bed with it. That was the last factory ammo I have ever bought for any of my firearms that are centerfire.Robert

Everone who casts should weigh some run of the mill jacketed bullets sometime. It will make you feel better about a couple tenth weight variation in your cast stuff....

[Lucky Joe]

I have a lot of really old factory ammo since I reload everything it just sits. Going to have to give this a look see.

[Ed Barrett]

You mean that there is factory loaded ammunition? I thought it was just a myth! <G>

[Lloyd Smale]

all from the same lot
Were those 8 boxes all from the same lot #? I've read many times that ammo makers use non-canister grade powders and adjust their load up or down to reach certain pressure and velocity levels. If one lot needed say 54.3 grs and another needed 54.8 grs and they allowed +/- 0.3 grs that would give you the distribution you measured.

Maybe I'm overthinking this. Just a thought.

[Lloyd Smale]

stew im sure its older then 15 years
How "old" is "the old Remington factory load". Could be a clue there. Factory ammo 15+ years ago wasn't as consistent as it is now, and the charge weight variation may be part of the problem.

Congrats on the "new" rifle. I've always kind of wanted a .280. I have a 7mm Rem Mag, so I can't really justify it. There isn't much difference between them. I won't sell the 7 Mag. It's one of the first 20 Rem. 700 Detachable Magazine Stainless Synthetic models to leave the factory. I used to teach Hunter Ed for AZ G&F. One year they held the Wild Sheep Foundation convention here in Phoenix. I volunteered to instruct to help members get a bonus point for the Desert Bighorn tag draw. Remington provided the rifles (several months before the model was available to the public), Leupold provided the scopes (3-9X VX-II), rings and bases, Uncle Mike's the slings and Federal the ammo. After the convention the rifles were offered to the instructors at cost. It's a REALLY good shooter with Sierra 160 spitzer boattails printing 3-shot cloverleafs at 100 yds.

Anyway, enough bragging. Enjoy your Winchester.

Regards,

Stew

[Lloyd Smale]

cant tell if you know by your post but the 7mm express and the 280 are the same.
My friend was recently given one, marked 7mm Express, that was unfired. The owner had it for years and couldn't find ammo locally for it. He had bought 280 ammo some time ago, but wasn't sure it fit so still was unfired. I sorted through my range pickups and found 20 pieces I'll be loading for him. Looks to be a great caliber.

[44man]

cant tell if you know by your post but the 7mm express and the 280 are the same.
Sales were poor for the 280 so they changed the name. 7mm seems to sell better.
I had one and sold it to a friend, found it was just too easy to kill deer with. It is a great round, a tad better then the 270.
Need to be careful picking a bullet, I used 139 gr Hornady's and they blew the heck out of deer with no exit hole, a whole bunch of shrapnel holes instead. Bloodshot from head to tail too.
My friend has large fields to hunt and has taken a ton of deer with it. It is in a good home. ;)

[Doc_Stihl]

Twist rates and throats vary between the 7mm Express and 280.

[spqrzilla]

The importance of precise charge weights with respect to accuracy can be exaggerated.

[Buckshot]

The importance of precise charge weights with respect to accuracy can be exaggerated.

..............Ditto the SD and ES the chronograph shows and the results on the target!

............Buckshot

[wistlepig1]

Some years back I got a case of Rem. 3 1/2 " 10 ga. and was running them over the Chrono. Most were in 1275-1325fps range until the last one 1721fps!!!!! WOW did it kick and I needed clean shorts.:holysheep

[giz189]

I agree that while the powder charges are not to consistent sometimes, you should check a box of 80 to 100 dollar Weatherby ammo for bullet runout sometime. On most of those I did not need a gauge to measure with as you could see it wobble rolling across the desk. This was just a couple years ago.

[DLCTEX]

Lloyd, yes I know that they are the same, but very few people do. It didn't help that Remington changed the name of the cartridge, and then changed it again as I understand it.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`ve been loading a .280 for my good friend`s wife, yes I do have a friend! I load Nosler 150 gr. Ballistic Tip bullets over AA-4350 powder and Win. primers. She has used this load in Africa, New Zealand as well as all of N. America and Canada. In the 75+ critters she has taken only 2 have needed a second shot. The synthetic stock had to be cut back so far for her short arms as to be at the danger point.Robert

[mroliver77]

I have a friend that I told we could load up some 44 mag so we could give his Ruger OM Blackhawk a work out.He said he would not shoot reloads, only factory loads. I asked why. He said he wanted to know they are loaded right. I asked what they were loaded with and how much. He had no clue but felt safer than doing it himself or with a mentor.lol
I have measured milsurp rounds that were within .5 gr for a bunch of rounds. I have caught heck for using powder dropper for loading and not weighing each load. I have found a couple 10ths powder either way makes no noticeable difference in grouping in my shooting.
It's very rare for me to buy CF ammo any more. Sometimes a too good to pass deal shows up or mil surp follow me home but thats rare. I did pick up some of the CMP LC 30.06 ammo a year or two back for a darn good price. Very good shooting ammo!
Jay