45-70 load recommendations?

[dblhunter]

Hello Everyone,
I am new to this board and thought I would jump in and ask for your help with something.

I recently ordered a double rifle chambered in 45-70. The gun is regulated with Hornady 45-70 Revolution 325 grain flex tips.

I was wondering what your thoughts are for a cast boolit load that would be easy to regulate with this gun.

Knowing that I'll have to test each load as I progress, I was just wondering if any of you had any recommendations to start with.

Thanks in advance!!!

Take Care!!

dblhunter

[MtGun44]

I don't know about regulating, but I have had excellent results with the
RCBS 405 GC. My favorite load is 57 gr of W748 with a magnum primer.
This is a low pressure load and chronos about 1750 from my Marlin Guide Gun.

Bill

[stubshaft]

You would have to go with an extremely light cast boolit to regulate this gun. IIRC the 325 flex-tips really zoom out of the gun, a heavier boolit will shoot alot higher. I am thinking a real light boolit at a decent speed will equal the bore time of the 325 grainers.

[HangFireW8]

I recently ordered a double rifle chambered in 45-70. The gun is regulated with Hornady 45-70 Revolution 325 grain flex tips.

I was wondering what your thoughts are for a cast boolit load that would be easy to regulate with this gun.


That's an interesting choice for regulation. Hornady's higher end ammo line-ups have a short half-life; most stay on the market only 3 years. For example, Euro-Spec, Light Magnums, and Heavy Magnums are all discontinued.

I would start with something like a Lyman 457 191 and Marlin level starting loads of H4198 and work up from there... not so much for safety, but just watching for group sizes and barrel POI to converge.

-HF

[giz189]

From what I have studied about double rifles you almost have to shoot what it is regulated with. Just a lot of testing to find out if it will regulate with any other cast bullet I suppose. That is an interesting rifle, who did you get to build it?

[9.3X62AL]

I would try a short-cut, of sorts--say, the RCBS 300 grain FN/GC (which runs about 325 grains most of the time) and crank it out at a velocity that matches the factory load it's set with.

It sounds like a fun rifle, and quite a game-getter afield.

[dblhunter]

The gentleman building the gun for me is named Jason. I met him on line. He builds doubles and has been for quite some time. He recently sold one on Gunbroker. That's where I saw his work for the first time. He takes about three months to build it and regulates it with those Hornady's at 50 yards and guarantees at least a three inch group.

I really appreciate all the feedback on this issue. I was thinking the same thing about the rounds disappearing in the future and I wanted to shoot a cast bullit that wouldn't wear the gun out over the many more years I plan to hunt with it.

I also love to handload for my 45-70's and have lots of stuff to use to work up a load. I have read various boards on line for weeks and this is the first time I've read anything regarding my question. Of course, I really didn't ask any questions until today, but I'm sure I've come to the right place.

Thanks for all your input. And if anyone else has anything or any advice to add, please feel free to.

Take Care!!

[crabo]

If he is building you the gun, could ask him to regulate it to some other load?

[warf73]

If he is building you the gun, could ask him to regulate it to some other load?


+1 to what Crabo said

[rockrat]

Yup, I would ask him to regulate it with WW 300grhp bullets. I have a Sabatti DR in 45-70,that is supposedly regulated with the Hornady ammo, and have been having fits trying to get it to regulate with anything else. Heavier boolits cross, to the tune of about 8" @50yds, and accuracy with the RCBS 300 is so-so (need a harder alloy, I think, to raise boolit dia.). Its a work in progress.

[45 2.1]

Yup, I would ask him to regulate it with WW 300grhp bullets. I have a Sabatti DR in 45-70,that is supposedly regulated with the Hornady ammo, and have been having fits trying to get it to regulate with anything else. Heavier boolits cross, to the tune of about 8" @50yds, and accuracy with the RCBS 300 is so-so (need a harder alloy, I think, to raise boolit dia.). Its a work in progress.

Try the 460-325-GC (Hammer) here:
http://www.brp.castpics.net/Rifle%20Molds.html
It shoots very well out of the 4570 and 450 Marlins, with the right weight and diameter.

[dblhunter]

OK Guys,

Now you've got my mind racing........at the speed of a turtle.

anyway....what load or combination would you suggest for me to ask him to regulate the gun with? I think he's limited to Factory loads only for regulation. I suppose I could reload some and send them to him for regulation.

So, what do you guys think?

[dblhunter]

Hey Guys,

I just found some 325 grain GC on Beartooth's website that are supposed to be good for deer, bear and hogs. I could speed them up to the 1800 fps the Hornady's are supposed to be shooting at and then tune them in.

What are your thoughts on this?

[rob45]

Option A
Invest in ammunition for which the gun is already regulated.
Pros: Simply buy the ammo.
Cons: Can be expensive; not very self-satisfying. Also, one is limited to availability and is assuming that the ammo is actually consistent. As has already been mentioned, Hornady's ammo can be hit-or-miss concerning availability and consistency; they have already changed the LEV 45-70 ammo in the short time it has been on the market.

Option B
Attempt to develop ammo that regulates similarly to the original ammo. Do not worry about trajectory differences from the original load; that's what adjustable sights are for. Focus on getting the new load to shoot same POI out of each barrel.
Pros: You're making your own ammo, and (hopefully) your own boolits. More economical in the long run, and you're using your choice of components. Assuming you have access to the particular components used, you will always have access to that load.
Cons: This can be very frustrating; it usually takes a lot of forethought and time to pull it off. Good record-keeping is mandatory. It usually requires considerable upfront investment in the different components. Do not expect to accomplish this in one day at the range.

Option C
Disregarding the original regulation, decide the purpose of the gun, and then develop the best performing load for that purpose. This load should take into account bullet weight and design, velocity, and accuracy. Do not focus on POI between the two barrels while doing this; look only for the best performing load for your purpose. Then have the gun regulated for that load.
Pros: Obviously you are developing the "best" load for your intents. Peace of mind.
Cons: Your gunmaker will most likely cuss you. Many people do not like to shoot the handloads of others; perhaps you can give details of your pet load and have him duplicate it; this is a situation where it is best to choose a powder known for good lot-to-lot consistency. Also, it's probably a good idea to provide a couple of different pet loads for him to work with in case he cannot get one to work.

Were I in your shoes, I would choose Option C. Both B & C will require bench time and extra batteries for your chronograph.

BTW, welcome to Cast Boolits![smilie=s:

[fredj338]

I would try a short-cut, of sorts--say, the RCBS 300 grain FN/GC (which runs about 325 grains most of the time) and crank it out at a velocity that matches the factory load it's set with.

It sounds like a fun rifle, and quite a game-getter afield.
Yep, cast form ww, ready to load, mine weigh about 315gr. They shoot close enough for me using either 300grJHP or 350grJSP. They will easily do 1800fps using several powders. It's just finding one that is accurate. I'm still looking.

[warf73]

OK Guys,

Now you've got my mind racing........at the speed of a turtle.

anyway....what load or combination would you suggest for me to ask him to regulate the gun with? I think he's limited to Factory loads only for regulation. I suppose I could reload some and send them to him for regulation.

So, what do you guys think?


This is me and my thinking: What am I going to be using this rifle for the most? Paper punching, long range metal shooting, critter shooting deer, bear and pigs?

One you have in mind what you are going to be shooting at the most then make up your mind what is the best weight of boolit for what I'm wanting to shoot.

After you get that call your rifle builder and let him know what you plan on doing with it and ask him how many loaded rounds he need to regulate your rifle.

If it was me thats what I would do, its not cheap haven a rifle built so you should get what YOU want not what the smith wants.

Just my thoughts.

[stubshaft]

I agree with the general consensus. If possible have the gun regulated for a 300 - 350 grain boolit. I think in the long run you will be way ahead of the game and be more satisfied with the results.

[Greg in Malad]

Dblhunter,
If you have to use factory ammo to regulate the rifle then I would use remington 405 gr loads.

Rockrat,
I bought a Sabatti double 45/70 yesterday and feel like I won the lottery. It is perfectly regulated at 50 yds with my rabbit load, 14 gr of trail boss and the rcbs 300 flat point. 20 gr of 2400 shoots 3-4" groups at 100 yds with one barrel hitting 3" higher that the other, basically figure 8 groups. I tried some low velocity 400 and 500 grain loads and they shoot 6-8" apart at 50 yds, right barrel hits right, left barrel hits left. I'm not tough enough to drive them fast enough to bring the groups together.
An intresting side note, this is the only 45/70 I have seen that has a .457 groove diameter. Now I can use all the undersize molds.

I just noticed the last post was from 2010 not 2011.

[peerlesscowboy]

Yep, cast form ww, ready to load, mine weigh about 315gr. They shoot close enough for me using either 300grJHP or 350grJSP. They will easily do 1800fps using several powders. It's just finding one that is accurate. I'm still looking.
That sounds about right. My RCBS 45-300-FN drops 'em at about 310gr cast from Ly#2 alloy.
FWIW, I've got a custom made 45-70 double rifle that I ordered regulated with the 45-405-FN. If you've got the choice I'd suggest having the gun regulated to that or the Remington 405 gr if he'll only regulate to factory loads. That will give you more bullet options, besides the two already mentioned you'd have the Speer 400gr jacketed, and the Ly457193 plain base cast along with others.

John C. Saubak

[Larry Gibson]

Double rifles of such caliber are generally short range affairs with the "regulation" at a range of 100 or under yards. BTW; "regulation" is the adjustement of the barrels so that the groups from each barrel coincide at a specified range with a single set of sights. Frankly the Hornady LeveRevolution is intended for longer ranges than a double rifle is normally used at. Since you are having the rifle built you should specify the range of the regulation and the specific load. My opinion is that a cast bullet is the best choice for such a rifle built as a 45-70. If you want light bullets the RCBS 45-300-FN GC is indeed a dandy and will suffice in medium game to 200 yards, generally a very long shot for a double. If you use a load in 1800 - 2000 fps range it should do very well for you. If you are intending on elk, buffalo or the larger bears then you might consider the 400 + gr GC'd cast bullets. If you are thinking of Africa and a dangerous game you should consider at least a 400+ gr bullet, preferably something along the lines of a Woodleigh 400 gr FMJ. I also would specify a twist no fast than 1- 18 in the barrels regardless of bullet choice unless you are intent on 500 gr FMJ for use on dangerous game. I would also specify a minimum barrel length of 26", preferably 28".

If this is just a fun gun or for use on deer or pigs then I would go with the RCBS 300 gr GC'd cast bullet. I would cast them of WWs + 2% tin, WQ them, size at .459 seating a Hornady GC, lube with Javelina and load them over 54 gr 3031 or 55 gr H4895 in WW cases with WLR primers. I would give a couple hundred such to the gunsmith and tell him to regulate them at 100 yards with that load. That's what I would do.

Larry Gibson

[peerlesscowboy]

........... I would also specify a minimum barrel length of 26", preferably 28".
Wouldn't a 28" be awfully muzzle heavy? Rifle barrels are usually quite a bit thicker than shotgun barrels.

[warf73]

Wouldn't a 28" be awfully muzzle heavy? Rifle barrels are usually quite a bit thicker than shotgun barrels.

Not sure how heavy the 28"barrels would be. The few big game rifles that I had the chance to fondle in SxS, was a 22" barreled 375H&H, 24" barreled 470 Nitro, and 24" barreled 500 Nitro.

[rbertalotto]

Double rifles of such caliber are generally short range affairs with the "regulation" at a range of 100 or under yards. BTW; "regulation" is the adjustment of the barrels so that the groups from each barrel coincide at a specified range with a single set of sights.


What ever you do, don't bring this description of regulation over to the Double Rifle area of "Accurate Reloading". God help you! There is a VERY heated discussion that says this is not the way to regulate a double rifle...........

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760101804/m/3121071251

[Larry Gibson]

Wouldn't a 28" be awfully muzzle heavy? Rifle barrels are usually quite a bit thicker than shotgun barrels.

Depends on the thickness of the barrels. Current trend with all rifles is shorter barrels. Older doubles had longer barrels. Like single shots they didn't seem as long simply because they were minus the length of a lever of bolt action. An extra 2 - 4" of barrel on a double, also a single, doesn't weigh more than a lever/bolt action and the aol is still many times less than the shorter barrelled lever/bolt action with standard length barrels. The "balance" will be there also. The longer sight radius can be benificial as is the ability to use slower burning powders to achieve the same velocities, especially with cast bullets.

While I find true carbines to be benificial I have found short barreled rifles (i.e. those rifles of substantial cartridge such as main battle rifle cartridges or hunting cartridges) to be wanting in several catagories. BTW; "easy to carry" is very, very low on my list of priorities for a rifle. My opinion is only based on my own experiences over a number of years in consideration of varied terrain, various altitudes and varied thickness of vegitation. I did the short barrels for a number of years and have gravitated back to longer barrels because their benefits far out weigh any percieved faults.

Larry Gibson

[HangFireW8]

Wouldn't a 28" be awfully muzzle heavy? Rifle barrels are usually quite a bit thicker than shotgun barrels.

If you realize the portion of the receiver between the stock and the barrels is about 3/4 of an inch long, it's shorter than a lot of 22" barreled bolt actions.

[MikeS]

Greg:

If you don't mind my asking, how much do the Sabatti's run? I see that they're imported by the same folks that import the Baikal which I hear is a cheap ***, and was wondering about the quality of the Sabatti? Thanks!