Flux Question

[Vyrone]

Getting ready to melt some WW. Will peanut shells work for a flux?

I have no saw dust or wax, but I like peanuts and have some shells.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Most any organic material will flux. Hope those aren't boiled shells.

Sam :D

[mold maker]

I've even used old corn cob and walnut media.

[44fanatic]

Picked up a thing of the pet bedding made of shavings.

[montana_charlie]

I hope those shells weren't salted...
CM

[HORNET]

Peanut shells should work fine as long as they're dry, don't want a visit from the tinsel fairy...
44fanatic said:
Picked up a thing of the pet bedding made of shavings.
It smells better if you use the shavings BEFORE the pets. Make sure that you remove the pets before using as flux either way :groner:

[sagacious]

Getting ready to melt some WW. Will peanut shells work for a flux?

I have no saw dust or wax, but I like peanuts and have some shells.

Vyrone,
Tossing a handful of peanut shells onto a pot of hot lead will not likely do a very good job of fluxing a pot of filthy tire weights.

I reckon that anything's possible, but keep in mind that a great many beginners who have all the right equipment and supplies still run into problems. By not starting out with the right fluxing agent, you run considerable risk of adding frustration to your first ww melt-- and if you do not get all the particulate matter out of that molten mess, you'll have to deal with it when pouring. That's not something to risk when there are much better ways of fluxing.

Unless you can grind those shells into dust (a blender should work), you're much better off if you can get an old candle or some dry sawdust to use for fluxing. Even a tablespoon of cooking oil will flux a pot of dirty tire weights to perfection.

Just a word to the wise. Good luck! :drinks:

[44fanatic]

Peanut shells should work fine as long as they're dry, don't want a visit from the tinsel fairy...
44fanatic said:
It smells better if you use the shavings BEFORE the pets. Make sure that you remove the pets before using as flux either way :groner:

Now I know where the guinea pig went and why I got hungry when I was meltin WW todays...LOL

[Vyrone]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
I have salted shells and decided to keep them in the waste basket. I'll be going to town to get some paraffin before I start my 1st melt. I was only able to get 24# of WW for 5.00 when I had my tires rotated this week, I'm going to check out some other tire shops to see if I can get a couple of 5 gal pails full, hopefully the costs are low. Don't think there are too many, if any, casters in my area, will soon find out.
A friend of mine has been cutting firewood out in the woods, I don't want to use sawdust yet because there may be some snow mixed in. Will get some and dry for later use.
Thanks again for the advice, I plan to follow the experts that are on this forum.

[blackthorn]

All you need is a VERY DRY stick. 2x2 or 1x2 about 2 feet long to stir around in the melt works as well as anything. That said, anything that burns and produces carbon will work. Have fun!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

In a couple of old NRA articles they mentioned using oiled sawdust and claimed that it worked very well. Ordinary sawdust will too as well as sticks like those used to stir paint. A simple flux that can be used is a small piece of a candle stub. A similar piece of paraffin or other wax will work too. When it starts to smoke, toss in a lighted match which will cut down the smoke. Stubs from broken crayons will also do the job. LLS

[Recluse]

In a couple of old NRA articles they mentioned using oiled sawdust and claimed that it worked very well. Ordinary sawdust will too as well as sticks like those used to stir paint. A simple flux that can be used is a small piece of a candle stub. A similar piece of paraffin or other wax will work too. When it starts to smoke, toss in a lighted match which will cut down the smoke. Stubs from broken crayons will also do the job. LLS

+1

Hell, keep it simple AND cheap when fluxing. A low-cost dutch oven, propane burner, some stainless steel ladle type spoons and you're set to go. I spent more on my ingot molds than I did everything else put together (but I already had a big stand-alone propane burner).

The wheelweights will flux themselves given all the grease and oil they have on them. Drop a very small chunk of a used candle in the mix and light it off (flames). Stir with a DRY wooden stick and be done with it.

I flux quite a bit when smelting so that I rarely--if ever--have to flux when casting. I smelt outdoors, but cast indoors--so I don't really want to hassle with fluxing while inside my workshop.

:coffee:

[mroliver77]

I use a combination of sawdust or ground cob and oil or wax or whatever I can get free. Sometimes I get a batch of alloy that is sluggish or makes a lot of nasty dross. I heat it to just barely above melting temp and flood it with wax and stir/scrape the daylights out it. Follow this with a charge of sawdust and a good skimming and it usually makes the melt behave.
Jay

[Lee]

The "Ill tempered Texan" is correct.......+1.........Lee

[a.squibload]

Just posted this question on another thread but will try here too:

Do you just stir with the stick, or skim something out as well? I saw a pic here
somewhere of a paint stick with shiny metal on it. Don't want to remove the
good stuff.

[theperfessor]

I keep several plastic buckets filled with hardwood sawdust that I have swept up from under the table saw. I use it to soak up minor oil spills and for flux. The oil soaked stuff works as good as the dry, maybe better for fluxing. The last smelting session I had was 1200+ lbs of roof flashing with lots of dried tar. Setting fire to the sawdust seemed to cut down on the tar smoke and helped "clot" the material together to make it easier to remove.

Lots of ways to do it but this is simple and works OK for me.

[runfiverun]

anything carbon based works.
some burnt wood, ashes,lined notebook paper,junk mail,motor oil,sticks,leaves.coal dust,
borax,kitty litter ground down some,boolit lube [not alox it don't work for anything :lol:]

[sagacious]

Just posted this question on another thread but will try here too:

Do you just stir with the stick, or skim something out as well? I saw a pic here
somewhere of a paint stick with shiny metal on it. Don't want to remove the
good stuff.

If you're fluxing correctly, you're not removing even a drop of shiny lead from the melt. Note that occasionally the melt needs to be stirred, and a wooden stir-stick may show shiny metal stuck to it.

You can stir with a stick or long-handled spoon, etc. If the fluxing agent you use doesn't separate the crud from the shiny metal like oil separates from water, then you may wish to revist your choice of flux. The fluxing material should reduce all the metal back into the melt, and cause the particulate matter and "crud" to separate and float to the top of the melt.

The only substance one should skim off the melt is a powdery black dross (dross is like slag, but slag is liquid, and dross is powdery material). There should be no silvery metal that remains incorporated/mixed into the crud, and so no silvery metal should be intentionally skimmed off.

[sagacious]

anything carbon based works.
some burnt wood, ashes,lined notebook paper,junk mail,motor oil,sticks,leaves.coal dust,
borax,kitty litter ground down some,boolit lube [not alox it don't work for anything :lol:]

Just as a slight clarification for anyone new to melting/casting lead, borax and kitty litter shouldn't be considered as a fluxing agent.

Borax contains no carbon or hydrocarbons and at hobbyist lead-melting temps, functions more as an oxygen barrier than an agressive fluxing agent of dirty lead. The application of borax to the surface a clean melt can reduce drossing of some lead alloys, but can also create a sticky mess. Note also that borax is hygroscopic (attracts and holds water), and that can pose a safety hazard.

Kitty litter contains bentonite clay, which withstands exposure to heat fairly well. Because of that, it also functions as an oxygen barrier material, but kitty litter does not have the fluxing capability that hydrocarbon flux does. Like borax, kitty litter should be applied (if one feels he must use it) to the surface of a clean melt, and not stirred-in like a flux.

Just a word to the wise newbies. Keep on keepin on! :drinks:

[runfiverun]

borax is the main deal in marvlux.
the issue most have with it is the amount that is used.
if you only use about an eighth of what you think is necessary it will flux metals back into an alloy.
i have used it to flux straight antimony ore into a melt.
the kitty litter is a better heat barrier, especially if ground down some. it will burn ever so slowly into a fine ash.
it don't stir in like a flux, it floats and does cut down on oxidation.
but i didn't know what it did till i tried it.
much like using penetrating oil or kroil as a release agent on some sticky molds.

[Randall]

I use old hamburger gease.It smells halfway decent when I flux with it,almost like steak.

[TexRebel]

OK , My 2 cents here, I use old motor oil to flux my smelts, and BW to control my casting pot , real simple, BTW use a cedar stick to stir the casting pot, it smells nice :)

[sagacious]

If I recall correctly, it's boric acid that's the main deal in Marvelux. It's different than borax. Boric acid is more fluid at lower temp than borax, which is perhaps best used at around 850*F to 1000*F+, but either will will flux antimony ore. That's why straight borax is used for 'glass bead reduction' geological assays-- fast, easy, and works. I still use borax for fluxing other metals beside lead, but gave up on Marvelux long ago as needlessly expensive and less effective than hydrocarbon fluxes.

As I mentioned above, at lead melting temps (say less than 850*F), borax alone is not a very agressive flux of dirty lead. Crank up the heat, and as situation changes somewhat, but since borax cannot be stirred into the melt anyway, it's use as a fluxing agent for hobbyist lead melting has insurmountable handicaps.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has a section on the use of borates as an oxygen barrier on lead melts, if anyone is interested in further reading-- and it's required reading for those new to melting lead.

[a.squibload]

When I use a chunk of candle and stir it in, the dirt floats to the top, so I guess
that works, but when skimming the dirt with a spoon it's hard not to get a little bit
of dull grey metal with it, looks like solder maybe? Result in the pot is shiny hot
liquid.

If ashes work I have a ready supply with my pellet stove! Will get paint sticks to
stir with.

Still need a thermometer, where's the best place to get one?

Someone mentioned a $10 Walgreens 1000W hotplate, saw one in Harbor Fright
sale sheet today for same price. Might be cheaper to run than Coleman stove.


Thanks guys.

[blackthorn]

Just a couple of comments:
Stirring the alloy mix does not "stir the flux in"! When you use "whatever" to stir, what you are doing is loosening any crud that is pinned between the alloy and the pot (walls or bottom) and that allows it to float to the top. The steel clips from WW pop up and float to the top of the melt so why would we think that any fluxing agent (that is much lighter than steel) could be stirred "in". A carbon producing "flux" acts on any oxides to remove the oxygen, leaving the lead as (reduced to) pure metal, returning it to the melt. Stirring and scraping the sides of the pot in addition to loosening any trapped crud, rolls any metal oxide to the top where it can come into contact with the fluxing agent, not the other way round. The use of a very dry stick to stir the alloy accomplishes both requirements in that it provides the needed stirring action and as it burns away in the melt, it functions to denie the oxygen (to the surface of the alloy) that would be required for the alloy to oxidize more than it already has.

[sagacious]

Just a couple of comments:
Stirring the alloy mix does not "stir the flux in"!
Yes, of course this is correct. The flux does not dissolve into the molten lead.

Allow me to be more precise with my wording: Perhaps the most critical aspect of fluxing is thorougly stirring the melt while the flux is active-- as contrasted against tossing some wax onto the melt and passively hoping for beneficial results.

This concept of stirring the flux "into" the melt is so critical to successful and proper fluxing that many knowledgeable resources on the subject address it with exactly that wording, such as the excellent article on fluxing bu Glenn Fryxell, which instructs: "A heaping tablespoon [of sawdust] is just about right for a 10 lb pot, stirred in thoroughly to begin with and then left in place." Emphasis added.

Since stirring the lead during fluxing is so important, I reckon we can forgive Mr Fryxell, et alia, for the slight grammatical error.

Those new to fluxing should read the entire article: http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm

Keep on keepin on! :drinks:

[higgins]

If you own a chainsaw with an automatic chain oiler, look under the sprocket cover for oiled sawdust. If you need more, just go make more cuts in a handy log. Back when oiled sawdust was getting more attention in the magazines (pre-internet), I used it until I got a good supply of free paraffin candle scraps.

[dromia]

Ditto on stirring with a dry stick, I've tried them all over the years and simple works best.

[a.squibload]

Thanks all for technical explanation, I had accepted the wording without thinking.
At least "stirring in" got us to stir.

I will save out a little used oil for casting, maybe mix it with the sawdust and
see how that goes. Rest of the oil will still go to a buddy for his garage heater.